NE@BUF . re-watch . thread

[Tony2046]

@long distance - This giphy of yours is full of good stuff.

1. Lewis puts pressure on Taylor
1a. Brown takes a great angle towards the sideline to prevent a big play.
2 and 3. Branch and Wise both take deeper lanes towards the sideline to prevent a big play. (Part of edge containment)
4. Doesn't exist because I screwed up the markings which is why there is a 1a.
5. DB switches smoothly to the TE. (Zone responsibility)
6. Butler stays with his WR instead of biting on Taylor's scramble. (Remember seeing otherwise in week 1)

All of this shows much improvement from what we saw in week 1.

 

[patfanken]

Tony's list of TE flags has sort of changed my mind on whether Gronk is being discriminated by the refs. Think about it. Gronk has 55 receptions. I'm guessing that he's had about 80 targets. So he's being called with an OPI on only 3% of his targets. And I'm sure there were cases where he DID push off and WASN'T called, and a few of the 3 OPI's he has gotten were deserved or at least understandable.

I think now is the time to get off the idea that the refs HAVE to be perfect and every call has to be right. Players make mistakes. Coaches make mistakes. Why should we think its odd that the refs make mistakes. It’s a part of the game that is played, coached and reffed by HUMANS, who all make mistakes!!!!

Once again, instead of b!tching about it, players and coaches need to take a lesson from Bill Bellichick who has long ago decided that mistakes by the refs are just part of the game. They are going to happen just like mistakes by the players and coaches. He TRIES to get his players in the mindset that its how you OVERCOME those obstacles will decide who wins the game, just like you would when its a pick, fumble,bad play call or bad penalty. You KNOW that adversity will occur during the game. The team that deals with it best usually wins.

When the Pats get a bad call , BB will never use it as an excuse. He didn’t defend Gronk’s melt down by complaining about all the deserved calls that didn’t go their way. His attitude is if the refs are going to let that stuff go in that particular game, then its up to the players to understand that’s the way it is and DEAL with it a nd get on to the “next play”. Control what you can control, and you can’t control the refs. Bad calls are just part of the game

Remember that part of the Pats preparation every week is to scout the refs, and try to get an idea of what they call and don’t call, so they know that this ref calls OPI’s close and that ref doesn’t and they coach their team accordingly.

I’m sure Bellichick sends clips of bad calls into the league after games just like every other team, but he never allows his team to use bad calls as an excuse because they are going to happen in EVERY game, and he understands that in the big scheme of things that for every bad call that happens against you, you will benefit from a bad call that helps. Remember the Pats benefited from a bad spot on their last TD drive. Also Gronk tried to defend his behavior by complaining about the refs non-calls all game. Bellichick NEVER used that excuse.

BTW – There were many fans who thought that Gronk should have been thrown out of the game after that penalty. I was among them. But is should be noted that while the refs didn’t throw him out, Bellichick DID. Gronk didn’t play another snap after his melt down. BB essentially threw him out.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Shaq pulling and right on time to help Lewis break it open.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Out & Up by Zay Jones.

Gilly doesn't bite on the double & keeps 11 inside. Quick peek at QB & drive that arm up/through opponents face.

 

[long distance]

Yep, Branch mentioned, OL blocking.. he basically stole the whole thing from our thread..

quote:
“That's #1 on my hit parade: taking care of the football“

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Single High Man

1-2-3 ...Boom. Brady is just the definition of everything here. Nice p/a but check out the pivot and the way he opens his hips. Gets sets and fires.

Gronk untouched, sharp cut and gives 12 a huge target over the MOF. Not easy tackling 87. Extra 5-7 yards trying to get him down.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Williams crashing the A-gap to clog the middle and create space for and B--gap twist by Alexander.

Great communication by Thuney and Andrews switching off like that.

Brady just painting a picture. The mobility, footwork and base are almost always perfect.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Wheelman]

This reminds me of that touchdown that was taken away from Gronkowski a few weeks back when a referee called a complete pass incomplete. The referee just made a guess that the ball hit the ground based on body language or something even though the ball didn't hit the ground.

Nitpicking here but Gronk was touched down short of the end zone. Not a TD.

 

[Wheelman]

1st qtr, 1:30, Bills kickoff return
#50 Grigsby with a savage legal block against #39

3rd qtr, 7:29, BUF 27.5, 3rd and 2
3rd qtr, 0:03, BUF 32, 3rd and 3
I was initially annoyed with Wise on the 1st play above where Wise attacked the gap in between the LT and LG while Flowers and Van Noy dropped out into coverage allowing Taylor to get outside the pocket. But then it happens again on the 2nd play listed. So was this a design Patricia came up with? It still failed because Tyrod scrambled for a 1st down on both plays. I feel like I'm stretching it here. What do you guys think?

3rd qtr, 7:06, BUF 33, 1st and 10
Rowe in for Gilmore from this point until the end of this defensive series. Not sure why?

3rd qtr, 0:48, BUF 28, 2nd and 7
Clay #85 with a clear push off on Chung, but hey let's call it on Gronk but nobody else, **** OFF!

4th qtr, 13 minute mark
when Peterman comes in, Harmon comes in too, McCourty out. McCourty comes back in on clear passing downs from this point on. Harmon came out on the 4th and goal at the 1 play. McCourty came in but played as CB.

4th qtr, 10:34, NWE 31, 1st and 10
Lee does a nice job cutting inside and beating the RT immediately. RT holds and turns him. Lee would have had McCoy for a loss. Instead it's a 12 yard gain
Where the **** is the hold Ref?!?!?!?!? It's blatant and obvious! ****ing refs!

It's really good to have Malcolm Brown back. You can see his impact in the run game. I really hope he doesn't get injured because he's our best d-lineman for holding up against the run. God help our run D if he's out or hobbled.

My uneducated opinion is that Branch is not back to 2016 Branch. He's doing fine, but it's really nothing special.

 

[Ring 6]

Tony's list of TE flags has sort of changed my mind on whether Gronk is being discriminated by the refs. Think about it. Gronk has 55 receptions. I'm guessing that he's had about 80 targets. So he's being called with an OPI on only 3% of his targets. And I'm sure there were cases where he DID push off and WASN'T called, and a few of the 3 OPI's he has gotten were deserved or at least understandable.

I think now is the time to get off the idea that the refs HAVE to be perfect and every call has to be right. Players make mistakes. Coaches make mistakes. Why should we think its odd that the refs make mistakes. It’s a part of the game that is played, coached and reffed by HUMANS, who all make mistakes!!!!

Once again, instead of b!tching about it, players and coaches need to take a lesson from Bill Bellichick who has long ago decided that mistakes by the refs are just part of the game. They are going to happen just like mistakes by the players and coaches. He TRIES to get his players in the mindset that its how you OVERCOME those obstacles will decide who wins the game, just like you would when its a pick, fumble,bad play call or bad penalty. You KNOW that adversity will occur during the game. The team that deals with it best usually wins.

When the Pats get a bad call , BB will never use it as an excuse. He didn’t defend Gronk’s melt down by complaining about all the deserved calls that didn’t go their way. His attitude is if the refs are going to let that stuff go in that particular game, then its up to the players to understand that’s the way it is and DEAL with it a nd get on to the “next play”. Control what you can control, and you can’t control the refs. Bad calls are just part of the game

Remember that part of the Pats preparation every week is to scout the refs, and try to get an idea of what they call and don’t call, so they know that this ref calls OPI’s close and that ref doesn’t and they coach their team accordingly.

I’m sure Bellichick sends clips of bad calls into the league after games just like every other team, but he never allows his team to use bad calls as an excuse because they are going to happen in EVERY game, and he understands that in the big scheme of things that for every bad call that happens against you, you will benefit from a bad call that helps. Remember the Pats benefited from a bad spot on their last TD drive. Also Gronk tried to defend his behavior by complaining about the refs non-calls all game. Bellichick NEVER used that excuse.

BTW – There were many fans who thought that Gronk should have been thrown out of the game after that penalty. I was among them. But is should be noted that while the refs didn’t throw him out, Bellichick DID. Gronk didn’t play another snap after his melt down. BB essentially threw him out.

You have become a Gronk basher.

 

[Wheelman]

Allen had 25 run snaps, 10 pass snaps, 2 kneel downs, 2 false starts.

Looking at different people/sites counting snaps for a player, false starts aren't counted. Which means I missed 2 snaps from the Pats/Dolphins game? Sorry!

1 false start was on Allen.

Allen stayed in to pass block 1 time on the passing down. Allen went out on a route 9 times, chipping the end on a few of those before heading out.

3rd qtr, 11:44, BUF 42, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen from right to left end of line
Allen runs an out and up, looked like a complete garbage route. DB was playing off anyways but in my uneducated opinion he didn't sell the out route.

Allen was thrown to 1 time and caught the ball:
3rd qtr, 5:09, NWE 30, 2nd and 2, 12 personnel, Allen left of line, Gronk in the slot on the right - Chips the end, Short gain for 1st down


Allen had 23 positive run blocking snaps.

2nd qtr, 2:00, NWE 39, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen left to right end of line
Allen and Gronk does a great job sealing defenders inside for a big burkhead run. Allen sustains his block even after Burkhead is well down the field.
Andrews quickly moves up to cut #50, Mason Pulls and pushes outside DB wide. Thanks to Gronk and Allen seal, huge run for Burkhead.


Allen had 1 snap where I don't know what he was supposed to do, so it could be ok, or it could be a negative snap. Take a look and judge for yourself.

4th qtr, 13:48, NWE 24, 2nd and 5, 12 personnel, Allen split right, Gronk right of line
Allen engages edge #57, Gronk chips #57 pushing #57 outside a little before moving up to engage #52. Allen tries to push #57 outside but #57 gets the tackle. Was Allen supposed to push #57 outside in the first place or was he supposed to keep him inside and just lost on the block? If he was supposed to keep #57 inside, Gronk made things worse for Allen by chipping him. Which leads me to believe maybe Allen was supposed to keep him outside and Burkhead should have cut back inside? Or maybe Fleming, Gronk and Allen are all unable to keep their guy inside? I don't know, I'm not an expert on this, and I only get the 1 view of this play.


Allen had 1 negative run blocking snap.

2nd qtr, 1:53, BUF 30, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen from right to left end of line
Allen moves up inside to engage #23 Hyde, Hyde grabs his jersey and throws Allen past him. Bills defenders in front already tackled Burkhead after 2 yard gain though. Micah Hyde did the same thing to Hollister and I think Gronk(could have been a different DB) on other plays. Hyde's got some skill there!

I love the way Allen continues to sustain his block and plays right up to the whistle every time. What a great blocker! His run blocking is right on par with Gronk's run blocking.

 

[Wheelman]

When Allen was on the field:

RUN ----- 1st qtr, 7:51, NWE 9, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen split out to the left, Gronk left of line
PASS ROUTE - 1st qtr, 7:14, NWE 15, 2nd and 4, 12 personnel, Allen in the middle of trips right, Gronk inside of trips right
RUN ----- 1st qtr, 6:32, NWE 22, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen and Gronk from left to right end of line
PASS ROUTE - 1st qtr, 3:43, NWE 47, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen right of line off LOS, Gronk in the slot on the right
RUN ----- 1st qtr, 3:38, NWE 47, 2nd and 10, 12 personnel, Allen right of line, Gronk left of line
PASS ROUTE - 1st qtr, 3:03, BUF 31, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen and Gronk left to right end of line
RUN ----- 1st qtr, 2:22, BUF 31, 2nd and 10, 12 personnel, Allen split out to the left, Gronk in motion from right to left of line off LOS

RUN ----- 2nd qtr, 12:59, NWE 31, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen from right to left end of line
RUN ----- 2nd qtr, 12:22, NWE 35, 2nd and 6, 22 personnel FB, Allen left of line, Gronk right of line
RUN ----- 2nd qtr, 3:05, NWE 25, 1st and 10, 22 personnel FB, Allen left of line, Gronk right of line
RUN ----- 2nd qtr, 2:00, NWE 39, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen left to right end of line
RUN ----- 2nd qtr, 1:53, BUF 30, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen from right to left end of line

PASS ROUTE - 3rd qtr, 14:54, NWE 30, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen left of line, Gronk in the slot on the right
PASS ROUTE - 3rd qtr, 14:26, NWE 20, 1st and 20, 12 personnel, Allen left of line, Gronk right of line
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 12:49, NWE 48, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen split out left, Gronk left of line
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 12:17, BUF 46. 2nd and 4, 12 personnel, Allen split out left, Gronk left of line
PASS ROUTE - 3rd qtr, 11:44, BUF 42, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen from right to left end of line
false start - 3rd qtr, 11:07, BUF 26, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen split left, Gronk left of line
PASS ROUTE - 3rd qtr, 10:42, BUF 31, 1st and 15, 12 personnel, Allen out wide in trips right, Gronk inside in trips right
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 10:09, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen right to left end of line
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 9:31, BUF 0.5 1st and goal, 23 personnel FB, Allen left of line, Gronk right of line, Hollister in motion from left to right of line
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 9:05, BUF 0.5, 2nd and goal, 23 personnel FB, Allen right of line, Gronk left of line, Hollister in motion from right to left of line
PASS ROUTE - 3rd qtr, 5:46, NWE 22, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen in the middle of trips left, Gronk in the slot on the right
PASS ROUTE - 3rd qtr, 5:09, NWE 30, 2nd and 2, 12 personnel, Allen left of line, Gronk in the slot on the right
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 4:34, NWE 32, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen split right, Gronk right of line
PASS BLOCK - 3rd qtr, 3:53, NWE 37, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen right of line off LOS, Gronk split out wide right
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 3:07, BUF 33, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Allen split left, Gronk inside of Allen on left
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 1:51, BUF 23. 1st and 10, 22 personnel FB, Allen left of line, Gronk right of line
RUN ----- 3rd qtr, 1:15, BUF 13, 2nd and 1, 22 personnel FB, Allen left of line, Gronk right of line

RUN ----- 4th qtr, 13:48, NWE 24, 2nd and 5, 12 personnel, Allen split right, Gronk right of line
RUN ----- 4th qtr, 8:11, NWE 14, 1st and 10, 12 personnel, Gronk and Allen right to left end of line
RUN ----- 4th qtr, 6:41, NWE 32, 1st and 10, 22 personnel FB, Allen right of line, Gronk left of line
RUN ----- 4th qtr, 5:43, NWE 41, 2nd and 2, 22 personnel FB, Allen left of line, Gronk right of line
RUN ----- 4th qtr, 3:33, BUF 45, 1st and 10, 22 personnel FB, Allen right of line, Hollister in the slot on left
false start - 4th qtr, 2:53, BUF 47.5, 2nd and 12, 12 personnel FB, Allen right of line
RUN ----- 4th qtr, 2:53, NWE 47, 2nd and 17, 12 personnel FB, Allen right of line
RUN ----- 4th qtr, 2:11, BUF 48, 3rd and 13, 11 personnel, Allen right of line
KNEEL DOWN - 4th qtr, 0:59, 1st and 10, Allen right of line, Hollister left of line
KNEEL DOWN - 4th qtr, 0:38, 2nd and 10, Allen right of line, Hollister left of line

 

[captain stone]

3rd qtr, 0:03, BUF 32, 3rd and 3
I was initially annoyed with Wise on the 1st play above where Wise attacked the gap in between the LT and LG while Flowers and Van Noy dropped out into coverage allowing Taylor to get outside the pocket. But then it happens again on the 2nd play listed. So was this a design Patricia came up with? It still failed because Tyrod scrambled for a 1st down on both plays. I feel like I'm stretching it here. What do you guys think?

3rd qtr, 0:48, BUF 28, 2nd and 7
Clay #85 with a clear push off on Chung, but hey let's call it on Gronk but nobody else, **** OFF!

4th qtr, 10:34, NWE 31, 1st and 10
Lee does a nice job cutting inside and beating the RT immediately. RT holds and turns him. Lee would have had McCoy for a loss. Instead it's a 12 yard gain
Where the **** is the hold Ref?!?!?!?!? It's blatant and obvious! ****ing refs!

Just re-watched the above 3 plays.
On the first play, Larry the Guy decided to break his contain and try to rush Taylor from the inside, leaving the outside wide open.
On the second play, Clay did indeed push off Chung, including the supposedly smoking gun of extending his arms. Bad non-call by the zebra.
And on the third play, Lee was indeed spun by the RT in a manner that is almost always called Offensive Holding. Another bad non-call.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Sweet Rip move from Butler.

 

[long distance]

1st qtr, 1:30, Bills kickoff return
#50 Grigsby with a savage legal block against #39

3rd qtr, 7:29, BUF 27.5, 3rd and 2
3rd qtr, 0:03, BUF 32, 3rd and 3
I was initially annoyed with Wise on the 1st play above where Wise attacked the gap in between the LT and LG while Flowers and Van Noy dropped out into coverage allowing Taylor to get outside the pocket. But then it happens again on the 2nd play listed. So was this a design Patricia came up with? It still failed because Tyrod scrambled for a 1st down on both plays. I feel like I'm stretching it here. What do you guys think?

3rd qtr, 7:06, BUF 33, 1st and 10
Rowe in for Gilmore from this point until the end of this defensive series. Not sure why?

3rd qtr, 0:48, BUF 28, 2nd and 7
Clay #85 with a clear push off on Chung, but hey let's call it on Gronk but nobody else, **** OFF!

4th qtr, 13 minute mark
when Peterman comes in, Harmon comes in too, McCourty out. McCourty comes back in on clear passing downs from this point on. Harmon came out on the 4th and goal at the 1 play. McCourty came in but played as CB.

4th qtr, 10:34, NWE 31, 1st and 10
Lee does a nice job cutting inside and beating the RT immediately. RT holds and turns him. Lee would have had McCoy for a loss. Instead it's a 12 yard gain
Where the **** is the hold Ref?!?!?!?!? It's blatant and obvious! ****ing refs!

It's really good to have Malcolm Brown back. You can see his impact in the run game. I really hope he doesn't get injured because he's our best d-lineman for holding up against the run. God help our run D if he's out or hobbled.

My uneducated opinion is that Branch is not back to 2016 Branch. He's doing fine, but it's really nothing special.

Great stuff Wheels, and i love the job you do on Allen.

Let me empty my re-watch notebook before tonights game.

1. @luuked thought Lee was liability vs the run while some thought he did ok. On the close re-watch Id say he was quite solid in the run game as well. Wheels and Captain already mentioned that on one big run going Lee's direction there was a blatant hold. There were two other occasions where bigger run went on Lee's side (once McCoy, once Tyrod) but I don't think any was on him. On the first drive he took on his man and held his part of the line throughout. The strange thing was he took on WR not T but watching closely you can see he is monitoring that WR pre-snap and jumping on him immediately so Id guess this was clearly his assignment. What blew that D play was Pats were one man short on the side (probably Roberts taking the wrong gap) and M.Butler tripped so he was late as well. The other was QB run outside but that one was clearly on Richards who was shadowing Tyrod and blew it completely while Lee went for inside rush anyway (and it looks like by design). So while it might've looked live that Lee was leaking, re-watch sheds a different light. He was solid containing the edge throughout the game when it was called. He is no Flowers to jump from contain & break the run but he was certainly not a liability. I also like his motor. I know he's fresh but he really played all 60 charged which was great to see.

2. Wise is better vs the run as people give him credit for as well. This game was a monster task for him lining up everywhere on D and he did a very solid ironman job. I wish they rested him and I hope they take some load off him if he goes w more of Reilly and A.Butler.

3. Larry the Guy (© captain stone) is underrated here IMO. His agility on the line esp. vs screens, read options, zone runs and versatility of a 3-down lineman played significant part of D success. The problem is that Branch is still far from last years form although better than beginning of the season. He had a very solid first half with a few nice bull rushes and block eatings but he faded later in the game which makes him more of a situational player this year unless he has playoff resurgence or something. The return of Brown is therefore even more important and it was great to see a fresh and fully healed player unleashed. They saved the two big bellies in the 4Q so hopefully he can add something tonight and be ready for a full game next Sunday.

4. It was nice to see M.Flowers had another solid game and is becoming valuable player taking on different positions (star, MLB, edge) making up for injured players. He rarely blows his assignments and can execute some big plays when called. He adds some welcome speed to the front 7 and w Lee this looks much more explosive now without giving too much against run (despite big Bills run numbers). It will be another interesting test tonight..

5. Roberts didn't have a good game and quite a few big runs were on him missing the gap, also biting too easily on misdirections, screens... Harris on the other hand showed good discipline, strong presence and also some speed for an old man..

 

[luuked]

Roberts didn't have a good game and quite a few big runs were on him missing the gap, also biting too easily on misdirections, screens... Harris on the other hand showed good discipline, strong presence and also some speed for an old man..

This I can definitely agree with. The irony is that for me Roberts is a bigger issue against the run than against the pass. He has taken some baby steps into the right direction in coverage but it is almost like sometimes he is gambling against the run. Which for obvious reasons is just a problem.

I remember Harris getting to the edge somewhat on time against TT on the first snap of the game and saying to myself that Harris takes great angles.

Regarding Lee:

I didnt have much time yet again to check for runs but on one of the bigger runs that I browsed through on the A22 Lee was just not able to shed a WR block and got moved inside. Let see how he looks in the next 2-3 games. Fingers crossed that he can continue playing at that level.

 

[long distance]

This I can definitely agree with. The irony is that for me Roberts is a bigger issue against the run than against the pass. He has taken some baby steps into the right direction in coverage but it is almost like sometimes he is gambling against the run. Which for obvious reasons is just a problem.

I remember Harris getting to the edge somewhat on time against TT on the first snap of the game and saying to myself that Harris takes great angles.

Regarding Lee:

I didnt have much time yet again to check for runs but on one of the bigger runs that I browsed through on the A22 Lee was just not able to shed a WR block and got moved inside. Let see how he looks in the next 2-3 games. Fingers crossed that he can continue playing at that level.

The problem w Roberts is that he functions in one direction. If he gets the target right he destroys it 100% of times. If he misses the target - even just taking wrong first step (which he does many times on account of his guessing, lack of patience, instincts, experience) - he is unable to react, recuperate, redirect (on account of his stiff hips etc.) - he is out of the play. To me he is a great situational weapon . the problem is that due to all the injuries he has to play starting MLB which is a tall ask....

I agree that in coverage his improvement goes baby steps and his stiffness/slow reaction that makes him easy target to shed in space can get him only so far. I love him but he will always be limited in his game.

Re. that Lee play here the two looks. To me its not about him being unable to shed the block since he is first to engage and pushes WR along the line. Lazar argues its on Butler and Gilmore to set the edge. As I mentioned Butler tripped so he was late to the edge. Roberts was blocked. In any case it was great job on Bills and sometimes one has to acknowledge that. Its their bred and butter play so they have to do something right..