NE@BUF . re-watch . thread

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Oh man, this is the Branch we love.
Look at the single arm from 97. Knocks his man back 2-3 yards before skating him backwards.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Gronk has been killing these WHAM blocks for years now. #GOAT

Haha look at Mason...staying hungry.

 

[ALP]

i love this competition between our Guards!

i can just picture BB like "so..who had the better game this week?"

 

[long distance]

Nice rush by Wise. I'm starting to understand more of what he is about on the pass rush.

He's never going to be a guy to makes a man miss. It seems his first object is to engage, not avoid the OLman to get him moving back to the QB, THEN he will try to shake the defender as he nears the passer, as we see in this clip.

He's a rookie so there is a big upside that we hope can fulfill, but right now it seems he isn't explosive or quick enough to be any kind of consistent pass rush threat. What he DOES seem like is a grinder who can provide some pressure with his strength and arm length to get NEAR the QB, enough so he at least "feels" him. Any actual sacks Wise is going to get are either going to be so called "coverage sacks" or when they stem to get him free.

Good point. Goes well with where I was going mocking a statement on his “quiet game“. It is important to understand what his responsibilities were. You described it well yourself but I think its more about what HIS JOB IS and not about his pass-rushing INABILITY or LIMITATIONS. Esp. in this game he was used more as a DL than edge rusher.

On this Lee sack he was lined up as 3-4 DE. This was on 1st down. He engaged with two OLs. And if you look at first frame there is indication he bursted almost as fast as much smaller Lee and M.Flowers and visibly more explosive than Branch and Brown of course (hopefully we can get pre-snap vid later).


Here he is on his primary position this yr as 4-3 DE. 3rd down 1v1 playing Id guess rush w contain. He's quite explosive but compared to Flowers lacking in technique and experience. He is a rookie, playing much more than planned.


Here he is lined up as 4-3 DT, 1st down. He is the only one double blocked again and as you can see second most explosive start after Lee, much more explosive than smaller Grissom (after playing whole game and Grissom just stepping in)


____


Like BGC said this was his college game as well. Not edge rusher but Pat type DE w legit DL potential. He is quite explosive for his size. He is bigger and taller than Flowers and has similar explosive measurables. If you remember on the draft night the closest “measurables“ comparison of all NFL was Chandler Jones.

But he'll need at least another year to fully develop his potential including athleticism.
T. Flowers really bloomed in the second part of his second season. He played more contain at the beginning and getting more lead rush duties later on. This year they are adding another wrinkle to T.Flower's game w dropping in coverage. They'll add another wrinkle to Wise's game when he is ready. He was never meant to play this much and all these positions this year Id guess. If he can stay healthy his trajectory could be similar to Flowers - on a bigger, longer body. He has great character and again - if his body holds he could become a monster.

 

[Tony2046]

Good point. Goes well with where I was going mocking a statement on his “quiet game“. It is important to understand what his responsibilities were. You described it well yourself but I think its more about what HIS JOB IS and not about his pass-rushing INABILITY or LIMITATIONS. Esp. in this game he was used more as a DL than edge rusher.

On this Lee sack he was lined up as 3-4 DE. This was on 1st down. He engaged with two OLs. And if you look at first frame there is indication he bursted almost as fast as much smaller Lee and M.Flowers and visibly more explosive than Branch and Brown of course (hopefully we can get pre-snap vid later).


Here he is on his primary position this yr as 4-3 DE. 3rd down 1v1 playing Id guess rush w contain. He's quite explosive but compared to Flowers lacking in technique and experience. He is a rookie, playing much more than planned.


Here he is lined up as 4-3 DT, 1st down. He is the only one double blocked again and as you can see second most explosive start after Lee, much more explosive than smaller Grissom (after playing whole game and Grissom just stepping in)


____


Like BGC said this was his college game as well. Not edge rusher but Pat type DE w legit DL potential. He is quite explosive for his size. He is bigger and taller than Flowers and has similar explosive measurables. If you remember on the draft night the closest “measurables“ comparison of all NFL was Chandler Jones.

But he'll need at least another year to fully develop his potential including athleticism.
T. Flowers really bloomed in the second part of his second season. He played more contain at the beginning and getting more lead rush duties later on. This year they are adding another wrinkle to T.Flower's game w dropping in coverage. They'll add another wrinkle to Wise's game when he is ready. He was never meant to play this much and all these positions this year Id guess. If he can stay healthy his trajectory could be similar to Flowers - on a bigger, longer body. He has great character and again - if his body holds he could become a monster.

I love the angle Brown takes in your first video. That's discipline.

 

[luuked]

Interesting, but I caught about 5 minutes of Felger when I was in the car doing errands and Bedard was on. He said that on the coaches tape there was an angle that showed Gronk extending his left hand on the play. He said that while it was a very weak call, he now understood at least while the flag was thrown.

I didn't hear any follow ups since I was out of the car right after that statement

It was a bad call. One thing I saw in the all -22 is that Gronk's arm did extend at the top of his route. Maybe that's what the refs key off on.

I am taking everything back. The flag is on Gronk and his continued refusal to work on his technique. Refs are clearly instructed to throw the flag as soon as they see his arm extended and he keeps falling back into the same trap.

 

[patfanken]

I am taking everything back. The flag is on Gronk and his continued refusal to work on his technique. Refs are clearly instructed to throw the flag as soon as they see his arm extended and he keeps falling back into the same trap.

You might be right on Gronk's lack of technique, because clearly the arm extended does nothing to help him in his route. The only thing it does is make a ref THINK it did. And that is poor technique that you would would think after almost 8 full seasons and countless OPI's that he'd learn to avoid.

 

[luuked]

You might be right on Gronk's lack of technique, because clearly the arm extended does nothing to help him in his route. The only thing it does is make a ref THINK it did. And that is poor technique that you would would think after almost 8 full seasons and countless OPI's that he'd learn to avoid.

Especially frustrating because there have been numerous interviews that indicated that the Pats have searched for clarification on those OPIs and tried to adjust his technique to account for that. It seems to me that sometimes he loses focus and just reverts back to what he has been doing his entire life and then gets called on it.

To me this entire continued situation with OPIs is a bigger issue than his cheap shot against the Bills CB. Because it is a consistently continuing issue.

 

[K. Dog]

I am taking everything back. The flag is on Gronk and his continued refusal to work on his technique. Refs are clearly instructed to throw the flag as soon as they see his arm extended and he keeps falling back into the same trap.

This reminds me of that touchdown that was taken away from Gronkowski a few weeks back when a referee called a complete pass incomplete. The referee just made a guess that the ball hit the ground based on body language or something even though the ball didn't hit the ground.

A referee should be instructed to call what he sees. He should not be instructed to guess at things he doesn't see. If he doesn't see OPI, he shouldn't call it. If he doesn't see the ball hit the ground, he shouldn't call the pass incomplete.

And I'm rather skeptical of the referees pretextual justifications here. By Occham I think most probably the referees have been instructed to target Gronkowski to equalize the league, rather than that multiple referees have multiple hallucinations around different calls in different games.

 

[luuked]

This reminds me of that touchdown that was taken away from Gronkowski a few weeks back when a referee called a complete pass incomplete. The referee just made a guess that the ball hit the ground based on body language or something even though the ball didn't hit the ground.

A referee should be instructed to call what he sees. He should not be instructed to guess at things he doesn't see. If he doesn't see OPI, he shouldn't call it. If he doesn't see the ball hit the ground, he shouldn't call the pass incomplete.

And I'm rather skeptical of the referees pretextual justifications here. By Occham I think most probably the referees have been instructed to target Gronkowski to equalize the league, rather than that multiple referees have multiple hallucinations around different calls in different games.

The TD is a totally different story and really an issue with how replay is handled (i.e. it should be 100% irrefutable evidence not conjecture over 1-2 frames). I also dont want to go further into this inside this thread because it is off topic for the rewatch thread.

In this case Gronk extended his arm, thats what the refs saw and called it OPI. He knows about it and the teams knows about it which makes it a clear case of him and not the refs screwing up. If you want to discuss this further Id suggest either sending a private message or move the conversation to the post game thread because, again, I dont want to derail the rewatch thread with a ref discussion.

 

[K. Dog]

In this case Gronk extended his arm, thats what the refs saw and called it OPI. He knows about it and the teams knows about it which makes it a clear case of him and not the refs screwing up. If you want to discuss this further Id suggest either sending a private message or move the conversation to the post game thread because, again, I dont want to derail the rewatch thread with a ref discussion.

I'm confused. Are you saying extending an arm is per se offensive pass interference, even without contact? Did Gronkowski in fact commit OPI or not?

 

[PP2]

I really enjoy reading the rewatch threads. Thanks to fantastic video input by @BaconGrundleCandy @long distance and others, it's now possible for us to see how things have evolved from game to game. The run blocking is on another level now, really clicking, with the designs becoming more creative.

Also the backfield has gotten their schemes down and are really locking down and this is allowing our DL to engage in stunts and twists or to engage in other schemes to pressure the QB because the confidence is there that the QB is going to be holding onto the ball a second or two too long.

 

[Tony2046]

I am taking everything back. The flag is on Gronk and his continued refusal to work on his technique. Refs are clearly instructed to throw the flag as soon as they see his arm extended and he keeps falling back into the same trap.

I was putting a compilation post (s) with numerous examples of calls and non calls for the top TEs in the league. That was when I saw that.

I've run out of time to do that right now. Have a new job and will have a boat load of time to it.

So I'll post the excel file I started with and maybe will get back to it at a later date.

But from what I saw thus far it was a relatively bad call. Meaning I saw the same type of arm extension ( not a shove) from other WRs and TEs without a call including Edelman.

Typical OPI seems to be much more egregious than that.


But yes Gronk knows this and should adjust his technique.

 

[luuked]

I was putting a compilation post (s) with numerous examples of calls and non calls for the top TEs in the league. That was when I saw that.

I've run out of time to do that right now. Have a new job and will have a boat load of time to it.

So I'll post the excel file I started with and maybe will get back to it at a later date.

But from what I saw thus far it was a relatively bad call. Meaning I saw the same type of arm extension ( not a shove) from other WRs and TEs without a call including Edelman.

Typical OPI seems to be much more egregious than that.


But yes Gronk knows this and should adjust his technique.

I dont think there is any question that he gets officiated differently than other players. The question really is what can be done to minimize those issues. The thing is that I remember clearly this being a discussed topic in the past and the arm extension in particular to be one of the keys that the refs are using when it comes to OPI and Gronk.

 

[Tony2046]

Posting this here for FYI. But it's part of an incomplete project. Unfortunately I've run out of time but will pick it back up once the work schedule settles down.

List in order total yards. Took the top ten TE's in yardage and included the most penalized TE in the league.

 

[Tony2046]

I'm confused. Are you saying extending an arm is per se offensive pass interference, even without contact? Did Gronkowski in fact commit OPI or not?

More importantly to me is if Gronk's arm extension is OPI why wasn't White's arm extension during the interception DPI? Same refs and same arm extension. Not to mention a the couple of holding calls during the route.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I really enjoy reading the rewatch threads. Thanks to fantastic video input by @BaconGrundleCandy @long distance and others, it's now possible for us to see how things have evolved from game to game. The run blocking is on another level now, really clicking, with the designs becoming more creative.

Also the backfield has gotten their schemes down and are really locking down and this is allowing our DL to engage in stunts and twists or to engage in other schemes to pressure the QB because the confidence is there that the QB is going to be holding onto the ball a second or two too long.

Thank you man. Just wanna contribute and learn.


Our run blocking has been a thing of beauty. Real team effort.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Posting this here for FYI. But it's part of an incomplete project. Unfortunately I've run out of time but will pick it back up once the work schedule settles down.

List in order total yards. Took the top ten TE's in yardage and included the most penalized TE in the league.

View attachment 18784

4 false starts? What the hell?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Anyone see why cooks was pretty much shutout? Was he doubled / tripled all day? Did Brady miss him on a few? Thanks