- Joined
- May 31, 2016
- Messages
- 16,551
- Reaction score
- 28,591
Hello. Let's football everybody! Go Pats!!!
I'm going to use this thread to talk about all things Pats, NFL. I'll definitely be looking at and making OL/DL clips every week since that's my favorite. Pretty much the same as last year. Talk about upcoming games, players, coaching decisions as well as what's going on around the league. I wanted to include more clips but GamePass is absolutely positively horrible. They've been down for over a week and just announced they're down for a few months. Hopefully the start of the season. A lot of jobs depend on it. A lot of people in different countries depend on it to watch the games. Its fun for losers like me. It sux hopefully it's up by Sept.
The day after we drafted Mac I said he was a "Josh" pick and he would beat out Cam in camp. Draft thread I believe, one of them. Everything that has happened since only reinforces those thoughts for me.
I have no idea how much power Josh really has outside of the obvious but it's clear to me Bill signed off on Jones but it was Josh that picked which QB to go after and had the most influence over this pick. We could have gone after Fields. Waited for Mills, Riess suggested we liked him as QB2 but we stayed put and landed Mac. Between the time on road, the time Josh spends in-season with a QB. Bill being closer to the end than beginning. A QB at 15. This was more Josh than Bill in terms of who we went after.
From the jump Mac was being prepped for right after the draft. At mini-camp, looking at different coverages trying to make him think twice where to throw but Jones didn't panic or flinch. He didn't look lost, he took the safe stuff but was calm and collected. Sometimes that's a good thing or the best answer. Fast forward he's communicating between/after plays, controlling tempo/energy. Accurate, putting the ball in the best spot for the WR. Getting the ball out quick, decisive in his actions. Knowing where to go. I've heard he looks the part from a command sense. Doing everything fast isn't easy but is a huge part of mastering any position. Physically and mentally. Being vocal, communicating. He's handling it and looking the part. It was mentioned to me twice by two different people up there that if Mac had a stronger arm this might not be much of a competition at all. That's probably the thing that separates them the most. Mac is quicker, more decisive & accurate along with passing with better placement & more touch. Cam just has him beat with velocity but that can be improved.
Mac shines at practice. The above mentioned combined with consistency matters a lot rn. Right away he looks the part on the field.
While Cam is a leader himself he's also streaky and inconsistent in several areas. Trying to hang onto his last best shot at a starting job. Bill obviously likes Cam, especially at this price. We'll see if he loves Cam and how far his allegiance goes. Cam is full of life, takes responsibility, is a team first guy but his mechanics and inconsistent nature will stand out next to Mac and obviously not in a good way. We haven't seen much but I didn't notice any big changes From what I've seen and heard with that stuff and let's be honest. Cam has been working on his mechanics or something else now for a decade. I love Cam fwiw. I really do. I got behind bully ball last year. One of my favorites ever in college, had a 1st round grade on him but his better days are behind him now imo. And so far I've heard he looks almost exactly the same. It's day two but I've been watching Cam for over a decade and trust the two people that are nice enough to share what they see with me.
His best chance is truly taking control of the offense since its year two. Being in command, start directing and being more aware pre-snap - rec blitz, rec what's in front of him & moving our guys etc .. Limit the errant/TO worthy passes. Show off his arm in a good way. Displaying he can touch any area of the field with proper velocity. It's also year two so he should be head & shoulders above Mac. Should be.
We'll see what happens but I really believe Mac will stand out, pull away very late and be the BEST QB on the team in a few weeks, in almost everyone's eyes to win the job. We'll see what happens and how Bill decides.
If Cam puts it together in year two I'll be a happy but there's nothing wrong with pulling for the 15th overall pick. He's supposed to be the future. Either way I'll be pulling for both to play their best. Nothing but good things can come of that.
It looks like both had a good day yesterday but Mac made some passes that stood out. Was more accurate, had better placement. Put the ball in front of his targets. Cam was up & down. Both had a few drops but Mac looked a little better all things considering. Quicker, more decisive. From everything I've read and heard today it was pretty even for the most part but Cam had a better day overall. I heard both days Mac looks like he's doing things we've done before. A lot faster from snap to pass, knows where he's going and even if he makes a mistake he's confident and quick in his actions but demonstrative in showing displeasure.
Last year around this time I & others were concerned about the RT spot. Bill went out and brought Trent Brown back! We lose Thuney. Onwenu steps up in a huge way and is a perfect fit to slide in at guard. Shaq is an absolute beast and Andrews is a very good C. I won't speak to the depth rn but our starting 5 is nasty! We have mauling potential, serious potential with a little luck in the health department. Both Wynn, Brown & Andrews have missed time recently. Stay healthy and we're killing teams on the ground, simple as that. I'm not even sure most know how good this group could be but in case you didn't know we have 3 top 10-12 run blockers in Wynn, Onwenu and Shaq coming back.
Some clips of Wynn facing an array of rushers. Finesse, speed, crafty, power rushers in ... Robert Quinn (HOF), Yannick Ngnkoue, Michael Bennett, Frank Clark, Carl Lawson ... His hands and strikes are very quick, accurate and effective. His feints are effective and improved. Great feel on his drag hand (3rd eye). Plus grip strength. His footwork might be better. His positioning is almost always balanced and ready to strike/move, dangerous from different sets letting him handle a variety of different rushers. Great anchor / hop and core strength to handle power.
Hes a great run blocker as well. So far better than pass pro. Top 10 by PFF last year even though they suck. Tape backs it up though. Look at some of the movement he gets himself with Thuney. Shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip, step for step. Now imagine him and Onwenu on the left side moving people down the field. Yeah that's why Onwenu is there. That side is going to be nasty. They're going to swamp guys on combos. Wynn is also very good and getting better in space. His quicks and footwork stand out climbing to the 2nd level. Efficient angles.
If Meyers, Bourne and Agholor continue to hit their trajectory, back to back good years and keep progressing we have a pretty complete group. A few tough WR's that get open, catch and block. Slot, outside, they have a little versatility. No world beaters. Sure we could use a little more help but this ain't a bad group at all. I'm curious about the slot. Typically we've had a reliable, known option. I wouldn't be surprised to see a bit of a revolving door and that could be a very good thing in terms of matchups. White, Bourne, Meyers, Smith, Henry can all contribute right away and can be effective from the slot. Could be a game by game basis depending on personnel. I'm sure Bourne & Meyers get the majority but remember Agholor can contribute as well. Remember even though we'll feature our TE a lot the position gained almost 3k in two years while we were running it with Welker in there. I would think Agholor would mainly be X/Z. Bourne & Meyers bounce from X/Slot.
The TE group might be the most improved group in the league. We go from about 7 rec from the entire position to having two top 10 guys in our room that can do a lot. Asiasi & Keene can breathe a little and don't have as much pressure on them. I'm still excited for both, mainly Asiasi. He came into the league more complete. Last year was an absolute sh¡tshow all-around. Judging rookie TE's, a position that almost never makes an impact as a rookie under those conditions isn't smart or fair.
Potentially we have a very deep RB group. Been watching a lot of Harris and his game is exactly like his scouting report reads. Excellent vision. His ability to press the line/set up a hole, set up 2nd level defenders. Lateral ability. Stand out when compared to Michel. Both are physically capable when it comes to setting the tone, carrying the load but Harris's vision, patience and ability to bounce outside is something we haven't had from a feature in a while. I'm hoping we keep Sony unless its for a 3rd, maybe 4th but his worth here as a RB2, potential RB1 with injury is too valuable imo. Both are solid in pass pro. I want to keep him. Give me the best possible groups. Add in White, JJ and this could be a nice group. One thing to watch for is if Stevenson can really crave out a role on ST. Show he can handle 150 carries. If he can it'll make things more interesting regarding cuts. Not a good start so we'll see there. He needs to really make an impact with the bodies in front of him bc we know how Bill feels about rookies and ST.
Are Bill/Josh zigging while the rest of the league still zags?
So it's pretty obvious we're going to be running a ton of 12 personnel (1 RB, 2TE) - little tip when looking at "personnel" just count the RB & TE's. So this particular grouping hasn't been that popular and has been dwindling down in terms of usage - teams aren't prepared to counter it, esp not all game. It can also be somewhat predictable bc of who's on the field and a lack of creativity. Think about it, a heavy run blocking grouping usually won't have many options to pass out of (Hou led the league last year I believe?). You need guys that can do more than one thing and do them really well. Despite the emergence and influx of athletes at the position it's tough to stay on the field and handle all responsibilities. You can block but can you get open and catch? Again it's a tough position to learn and master.
From Warren Sharp ...
"Instead of teams embracing heavy personnel packages to run the ball, they should start to use those heavier personnel packages to gain an advantage through the air, especially with 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends, and two wide receivers).
12 personnel usage dropped drastically league-wide in 2018. Teams used that package on 24 percent of plays in 2016, then on 25 percent of plays in 2017 but that dropped to just 16 percent last year. As most teams have embraced the pass, 12 personnel has fallen slightly out of favor. Because of the use of multiple tight ends, 12 personnel has always been a run-heavy package.
In 2016, teams passed just 47 percent of the time from 12, a rate that went down to 45 percent in 2017. Passing rose to 48 percent in 2018, but it’s still a far cry from 66 percent pass rate from 11 personnel.
This matters because passing from 12 can be incredibly efficient. Last season, teams averaged 8.08 yards per attempt, 0.15 Expected Points Added per attempt, and had a positive play rate (the percentage of plays with positive EPA) of 54 percent from 12 personnel, per Sports Info Solutions.
From 11, those averages were 7.16 yards per attempt, 0.03 EPA per attempt, and a positive play rate of 49.5 percent. There is a sample size discrepancy there because there were significantly more pass attempts from 11, but that’s kind of the point. Teams really should throw more from 12."
Luckily we have a really, really good group and Josh who has plenty of experience with these types of groupings. Most teams don't have the versatility or coaching we have. The ability to flex Smith or Henry out while keeping one in to block, put them in the slot, motion/reverse. The freedom and ability to stay on the field is what it's all about. Teams are just not ready to defend a full fledged attack from that package bc they'll mostly likely be in base to combat the run threat.
Like everything else it depends on QB play and health but the pieces are there on this side of the ball to make a play for the division. Here's to good health and good QB play. Go Pats!!!
I'm going to use this thread to talk about all things Pats, NFL. I'll definitely be looking at and making OL/DL clips every week since that's my favorite. Pretty much the same as last year. Talk about upcoming games, players, coaching decisions as well as what's going on around the league. I wanted to include more clips but GamePass is absolutely positively horrible. They've been down for over a week and just announced they're down for a few months. Hopefully the start of the season. A lot of jobs depend on it. A lot of people in different countries depend on it to watch the games. Its fun for losers like me. It sux hopefully it's up by Sept.
The day after we drafted Mac I said he was a "Josh" pick and he would beat out Cam in camp. Draft thread I believe, one of them. Everything that has happened since only reinforces those thoughts for me.
I have no idea how much power Josh really has outside of the obvious but it's clear to me Bill signed off on Jones but it was Josh that picked which QB to go after and had the most influence over this pick. We could have gone after Fields. Waited for Mills, Riess suggested we liked him as QB2 but we stayed put and landed Mac. Between the time on road, the time Josh spends in-season with a QB. Bill being closer to the end than beginning. A QB at 15. This was more Josh than Bill in terms of who we went after.
From the jump Mac was being prepped for right after the draft. At mini-camp, looking at different coverages trying to make him think twice where to throw but Jones didn't panic or flinch. He didn't look lost, he took the safe stuff but was calm and collected. Sometimes that's a good thing or the best answer. Fast forward he's communicating between/after plays, controlling tempo/energy. Accurate, putting the ball in the best spot for the WR. Getting the ball out quick, decisive in his actions. Knowing where to go. I've heard he looks the part from a command sense. Doing everything fast isn't easy but is a huge part of mastering any position. Physically and mentally. Being vocal, communicating. He's handling it and looking the part. It was mentioned to me twice by two different people up there that if Mac had a stronger arm this might not be much of a competition at all. That's probably the thing that separates them the most. Mac is quicker, more decisive & accurate along with passing with better placement & more touch. Cam just has him beat with velocity but that can be improved.
Mac shines at practice. The above mentioned combined with consistency matters a lot rn. Right away he looks the part on the field.
While Cam is a leader himself he's also streaky and inconsistent in several areas. Trying to hang onto his last best shot at a starting job. Bill obviously likes Cam, especially at this price. We'll see if he loves Cam and how far his allegiance goes. Cam is full of life, takes responsibility, is a team first guy but his mechanics and inconsistent nature will stand out next to Mac and obviously not in a good way. We haven't seen much but I didn't notice any big changes From what I've seen and heard with that stuff and let's be honest. Cam has been working on his mechanics or something else now for a decade. I love Cam fwiw. I really do. I got behind bully ball last year. One of my favorites ever in college, had a 1st round grade on him but his better days are behind him now imo. And so far I've heard he looks almost exactly the same. It's day two but I've been watching Cam for over a decade and trust the two people that are nice enough to share what they see with me.
His best chance is truly taking control of the offense since its year two. Being in command, start directing and being more aware pre-snap - rec blitz, rec what's in front of him & moving our guys etc .. Limit the errant/TO worthy passes. Show off his arm in a good way. Displaying he can touch any area of the field with proper velocity. It's also year two so he should be head & shoulders above Mac. Should be.
We'll see what happens but I really believe Mac will stand out, pull away very late and be the BEST QB on the team in a few weeks, in almost everyone's eyes to win the job. We'll see what happens and how Bill decides.
If Cam puts it together in year two I'll be a happy but there's nothing wrong with pulling for the 15th overall pick. He's supposed to be the future. Either way I'll be pulling for both to play their best. Nothing but good things can come of that.
It looks like both had a good day yesterday but Mac made some passes that stood out. Was more accurate, had better placement. Put the ball in front of his targets. Cam was up & down. Both had a few drops but Mac looked a little better all things considering. Quicker, more decisive. From everything I've read and heard today it was pretty even for the most part but Cam had a better day overall. I heard both days Mac looks like he's doing things we've done before. A lot faster from snap to pass, knows where he's going and even if he makes a mistake he's confident and quick in his actions but demonstrative in showing displeasure.
Last year around this time I & others were concerned about the RT spot. Bill went out and brought Trent Brown back! We lose Thuney. Onwenu steps up in a huge way and is a perfect fit to slide in at guard. Shaq is an absolute beast and Andrews is a very good C. I won't speak to the depth rn but our starting 5 is nasty! We have mauling potential, serious potential with a little luck in the health department. Both Wynn, Brown & Andrews have missed time recently. Stay healthy and we're killing teams on the ground, simple as that. I'm not even sure most know how good this group could be but in case you didn't know we have 3 top 10-12 run blockers in Wynn, Onwenu and Shaq coming back.
Some clips of Wynn facing an array of rushers. Finesse, speed, crafty, power rushers in ... Robert Quinn (HOF), Yannick Ngnkoue, Michael Bennett, Frank Clark, Carl Lawson ... His hands and strikes are very quick, accurate and effective. His feints are effective and improved. Great feel on his drag hand (3rd eye). Plus grip strength. His footwork might be better. His positioning is almost always balanced and ready to strike/move, dangerous from different sets letting him handle a variety of different rushers. Great anchor / hop and core strength to handle power.
Hes a great run blocker as well. So far better than pass pro. Top 10 by PFF last year even though they suck. Tape backs it up though. Look at some of the movement he gets himself with Thuney. Shoulder to shoulder, hip to hip, step for step. Now imagine him and Onwenu on the left side moving people down the field. Yeah that's why Onwenu is there. That side is going to be nasty. They're going to swamp guys on combos. Wynn is also very good and getting better in space. His quicks and footwork stand out climbing to the 2nd level. Efficient angles.
If Meyers, Bourne and Agholor continue to hit their trajectory, back to back good years and keep progressing we have a pretty complete group. A few tough WR's that get open, catch and block. Slot, outside, they have a little versatility. No world beaters. Sure we could use a little more help but this ain't a bad group at all. I'm curious about the slot. Typically we've had a reliable, known option. I wouldn't be surprised to see a bit of a revolving door and that could be a very good thing in terms of matchups. White, Bourne, Meyers, Smith, Henry can all contribute right away and can be effective from the slot. Could be a game by game basis depending on personnel. I'm sure Bourne & Meyers get the majority but remember Agholor can contribute as well. Remember even though we'll feature our TE a lot the position gained almost 3k in two years while we were running it with Welker in there. I would think Agholor would mainly be X/Z. Bourne & Meyers bounce from X/Slot.
The TE group might be the most improved group in the league. We go from about 7 rec from the entire position to having two top 10 guys in our room that can do a lot. Asiasi & Keene can breathe a little and don't have as much pressure on them. I'm still excited for both, mainly Asiasi. He came into the league more complete. Last year was an absolute sh¡tshow all-around. Judging rookie TE's, a position that almost never makes an impact as a rookie under those conditions isn't smart or fair.
Potentially we have a very deep RB group. Been watching a lot of Harris and his game is exactly like his scouting report reads. Excellent vision. His ability to press the line/set up a hole, set up 2nd level defenders. Lateral ability. Stand out when compared to Michel. Both are physically capable when it comes to setting the tone, carrying the load but Harris's vision, patience and ability to bounce outside is something we haven't had from a feature in a while. I'm hoping we keep Sony unless its for a 3rd, maybe 4th but his worth here as a RB2, potential RB1 with injury is too valuable imo. Both are solid in pass pro. I want to keep him. Give me the best possible groups. Add in White, JJ and this could be a nice group. One thing to watch for is if Stevenson can really crave out a role on ST. Show he can handle 150 carries. If he can it'll make things more interesting regarding cuts. Not a good start so we'll see there. He needs to really make an impact with the bodies in front of him bc we know how Bill feels about rookies and ST.
Are Bill/Josh zigging while the rest of the league still zags?
So it's pretty obvious we're going to be running a ton of 12 personnel (1 RB, 2TE) - little tip when looking at "personnel" just count the RB & TE's. So this particular grouping hasn't been that popular and has been dwindling down in terms of usage - teams aren't prepared to counter it, esp not all game. It can also be somewhat predictable bc of who's on the field and a lack of creativity. Think about it, a heavy run blocking grouping usually won't have many options to pass out of (Hou led the league last year I believe?). You need guys that can do more than one thing and do them really well. Despite the emergence and influx of athletes at the position it's tough to stay on the field and handle all responsibilities. You can block but can you get open and catch? Again it's a tough position to learn and master.
From Warren Sharp ...
"Instead of teams embracing heavy personnel packages to run the ball, they should start to use those heavier personnel packages to gain an advantage through the air, especially with 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends, and two wide receivers).
12 personnel usage dropped drastically league-wide in 2018. Teams used that package on 24 percent of plays in 2016, then on 25 percent of plays in 2017 but that dropped to just 16 percent last year. As most teams have embraced the pass, 12 personnel has fallen slightly out of favor. Because of the use of multiple tight ends, 12 personnel has always been a run-heavy package.
In 2016, teams passed just 47 percent of the time from 12, a rate that went down to 45 percent in 2017. Passing rose to 48 percent in 2018, but it’s still a far cry from 66 percent pass rate from 11 personnel.
This matters because passing from 12 can be incredibly efficient. Last season, teams averaged 8.08 yards per attempt, 0.15 Expected Points Added per attempt, and had a positive play rate (the percentage of plays with positive EPA) of 54 percent from 12 personnel, per Sports Info Solutions.
From 11, those averages were 7.16 yards per attempt, 0.03 EPA per attempt, and a positive play rate of 49.5 percent. There is a sample size discrepancy there because there were significantly more pass attempts from 11, but that’s kind of the point. Teams really should throw more from 12."
Luckily we have a really, really good group and Josh who has plenty of experience with these types of groupings. Most teams don't have the versatility or coaching we have. The ability to flex Smith or Henry out while keeping one in to block, put them in the slot, motion/reverse. The freedom and ability to stay on the field is what it's all about. Teams are just not ready to defend a full fledged attack from that package bc they'll mostly likely be in base to combat the run threat.
Like everything else it depends on QB play and health but the pieces are there on this side of the ball to make a play for the division. Here's to good health and good QB play. Go Pats!!!
