Marcus Mariota

[TheRazorsEdge]

Which is exactly how the Patriots dynasty got started, when Brady was a rookie he played that style and scored enough points to allow Belichick's D to carry the team. But it's been so long since Brady grew out of that phase that people have forgotten, and everyone would rather have a big arm instead, so the lesser arm, no matter how fundamentally sound, is not preferred

Speechless. Possibly the best sh** this offseason. Bravo.

 

[lancerman]

He's a UFA, And one of the more cost effective options out there all things considered.

people don't want him because quite frankly no one wants to admit that he's one of the better options.

brissett's style is unpopular exactly for the reasons I described. He's a game manager whose job is to throw just enough to set up the run and put up enough points to allow the defense to win the game. He's one of the smarter, bolder, tougher examples of the breed, but that's still what he is. A QB who can take a defensive team as far as its lack of defensive mistakes allows.

In other words, a QB who plays directly into the remaining strengths we have as a franchise -- Belichick and the defense. And offensively, our run game is light years ahead of our pass game too. A high level game manager is a good fit for what we are.

Which is exactly how the Patriots dynasty got started, when Brady was a rookie he played that style and scored enough points to allow Belichick's D to carry the team. But it's been so long since Brady grew out of that phase that people have forgotten, and everyone would rather have a big arm instead, so the lesser arm, no matter how fundamentally sound, is not preferred.

Brady was being asked to pull out multiple game winning drives in undeal positions in his very first SB run and it was abundantly clear he had superior game sense and pocket presence than Bledsoe. The next year he led the league. The next year he was getting MVP votes and basically bailed our defense out of a disaster 4th quarter performance to win a shootout SB. The next year he was dominant and had a 130 passer rating on the road in the AFCCG against the 15-1 Steelers and then a 110 passer rating against the Eagles in the SB. The next year he had his first all Pro.

Please.

Also the guys being considered in this thread are not early years Brady.

 

[Simpelton]

No, we won't get early years Brady, my point is that style of QB is pretty close to exactly what we need. A big arm would be wasted here, we don't have the personnel to make good use of it. But a guy who can manage the game, manage the clock, limit turnovers and set up the run, is exactly what we CAN use. And Brissett's better than most at that role.

 

[Kontradiction]

No, we won't get early years Brady, my point is that style of QB is pretty close to exactly what we need. A big arm would be wasted here, we don't have the personnel to make good use of it. But a guy who can manage the game, manage the clock, limit turnovers and set up the run, is exactly what we CAN use. And Brissett's better than most at that role.

What about Kizer though?

 

[Simpelton]

when I suggested Kizer, he would have made an interesting reclamation project. Brissett doesn't need reclamation, he just needs playing time, and maybe a good OC to coach him on getting the ball out of his hands a bit faster.

 

[Love The Drake]

Belichick traded Brissett faster than I recall him trading any draft pick.
I don’t see how he brings him back.
Unless it’s a backup role.

 

[Kontradiction]

when I suggested Kizer, he would have made an interesting reclamation project. Brissett doesn't need reclamation, he just needs playing time, and maybe a good OC to coach him on getting the ball out of his hands a bit faster.

The guy who lost his starting job and has never proven he can win consistently in this league wouldn’t be a reclamation project?

 

[Simpelton]

No he wouldn't. And it's dishonest of you to use his win loss record in your argument when we know for a fact that both of the times Brissett started in Indy he was basically handed a tangled mess. The first time he was a rookie and couldn't sustain enough success to change their fate (and that was also the year where Brissett had a game in which he took 10 sacks, so that says what it says about his supporting cast anyway) but in 2019 he showed massive improvement and even carried the Colts to about 4 of their wins. The difference between 2017's 3-13 and 2019's 7-9 was pretty much literally the growth shown by Brissett.

Frankly I think he still has room to grow, especially in a better-run organization.

 

[Kontradiction]

No he wouldn't. And it's dishonest of you to use his win loss record in your argument when we know for a fact that both of the times Brissett started in Indy he was basically handed a tangled mess.

He was handed a team that reached the postseason the years before and after he started for them. He was the difference. Under him, they went 7-9 in spite of having the best OL, a very good ground game, and a defense that starkly improved. That’s not dishonest at all. That’s just calling a spade a spade.

The first time he was a rookie and couldn't sustain enough success to change their fate (and that was also the year where Brissett had a game in which he took 10 sacks, so that says what it says about his supporting cast anyway) but in 2019 he showed massive improvement and even carried the Colts to about 4 of their wins.

LMAO, which four wins did Brissett “carry the Colts to?” He also was not a rookie with the Colts. He was a rookie with us before we traded him for Phillip Dorsett.

The difference between 2017's 3-13 and 2019's 7-9 was pretty much literally the growth shown by Brissett.

No, it wasn’t. They built their OL into one of the top units in the NFL and bolstered their defensive front, most notably by drafting Leonard. Brissett was merely a place holder. If he wasn’t anything more than that, he would have lost his starting job for an over-the-hill Rivers who was on his last legs, and ended up retiring after the season. Brissett is fine as a back-up. He’s not a starter in this league.

Frankly I think he still has room to grow, especially in a better-run organization.

Can you give me specifics on this? Specifically, what does he do well and where does he have room to grow? When you evaluate him as a passer, what attributes does he possess to make you think he could be a quality starter in this league?

 

[Simpelton]

LMAO, which four wins did Brissett “carry the Colts to?” He also was not a rookie with the Colts. He was a rookie with us before we traded him for Phillip Dorsett.

week 2 vs JAX (game winning drive) vs ATL, v HOU ,Vs DEN (game winning drive),

Jacoby Brissett 2019 Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Get Jacoby Brissett 2019 game log for regular season and playoff games on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

He also nearly pulled off a game winning drive against the Chargers in week 1 that year IIRC, but Vinatieri uncharacteristically missed, resulting in an OTL.

 

[DW Toys]

My order of Vets
Watson
Jimmy G
Mariota
Wentz
Carr

Respect your list Cousin. Actaully Carr was probabaly the best on that list this last year. Here is the issue at Vegas....$35mm in a smaller 2021 CAP for two QB's and yes, Mayock would trade with BB.

Perspectives on these left over QB I rate:
Kyle Allen (cheap and I know they tried to get him so due diligence was completed.
Gardner Menshew (cheap and actually has decent stats with a crappier Team than ours in 2020.
"Minshew appeared in 14 games and tossed 21 touchdowns to only six interceptions. The efficiency wasn't great (61 C%, 7.0 YPA, 19% off-target rate), 2559 Passing yards but Minshew made up some ground with his legs, ranking fifth among QBs with 344 rushing yards." Minchew payed one less game and had 13 more TDs passing.and 4 less INTs. Kids only 24.

Cam>

YEAR	TM	G	COMP	ATT	COMP%	YDS	Y/G	Y/A	TD	300+	INT	RUSH	YDS	Y/G	AVG	TD	100+	FUM	LOST
2020	NE	15	242	368	65.8	2657	177.1	7.2	8	2	10	137	592	39.5	4.3

Matt Ryan(now with a new coach might be time to part with a 35 year old dude inATL) Our best QB choice to make the playoffs IMHO. This might be your BB "Sunset QB"

Wentz might be a great reclamation project but his contract is nuts. Would Philly deal him? Yes.
So then you might say Prescott.....but he's in $35mm territory as well. And what would you have to pay the Boys.
Would take a shot with Darnold but Jest won't trade him to us.
Brissett? Never the same after injury Even more expensive that Cam
Alex Smith? Hmm.....
DW Toys

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Respect your list Cousin. Actaully Carr was probabaly the best on that list this last year. Here is the issue at Vegas....$35mm in a smaller 2021 CAP for two QB's and yes, Mayock would trade with BB.

Perspectives on these left over QB I rate:
Kyle Allen (cheap and I know they tried to get him so due diligence was completed.
Gardner Menshew (cheap and actually has decent stats with a crappier Team than ours in 2020.
"Minshew appeared in 14 games and tossed 21 touchdowns to only six interceptions. The efficiency wasn't great (61 C%, 7.0 YPA, 19% off-target rate), 2559 Passing yards but Minshew made up some ground with his legs, ranking fifth among QBs with 344 rushing yards." Minchew payed one less game and had 13 more TDs passing.and 4 less INTs. Kids only 24.

Cam>

YEAR	TM	G	COMP	ATT	COMP%	YDS	Y/G	Y/A	TD	300+	INT	RUSH	YDS	Y/G	AVG	TD	100+	FUM	LOST
2020	NE	15	242	368	65.8	2657	177.1	7.2	8	2	10	137	592	39.5	4.3

Matt Ryan(now with a new coach might be time to part with a 35 year old dude inATL) Our best QB choice to make the playoffs IMHO. This might be your BB "Sunset QB"

Wentz might be a great reclamation project but his contract is nuts. Would Philly deal him? Yes.
So then you might say Prescott.....but he's in $35mm territory as well. And what would you have to pay the Boys.
Would take a shot with Darnold but Jest won't trade him to us.
Brissett? Never the same after injury Even more expensive that Cam
Alex Smith? Hmm.....
DW Toys

Not that I think the Pats should sign him, but Dak is going to be a UFA, unless Dallas re-franchises him at a cool @42 million for one year.

 

[DW Toys]

Why are we looking for a bridge QB. Cam was a bridge QB. We should be looking for the next guy in the draft. We have no idea what are situation will be next year

What is the percentage of success for a shiny new rookie QB as a savior to be the Franchise starter?The success throughout the NFL on each Draft class is only 17%. We have done the studies. So in a realistic term of 3 years evealuation, that success amounts to on a per average 2 players.. Most are cut, traded or leave with medical issues. It's true some stay on a roster fillers but are certainly replaceable. The better Teams have less Draft picks make it. The worse the Team is the more younger players are inserted into the roster.

So we have a 17% chance that Mac Jones (etc) would bring the Pats a starter, let alone back to the Play-offs? Do you want those odds Cousin?

For every Allen or Mahomes, there is a "franchise QB" like Goff or Wentz.? Now Preston? Watson? Murray? Tua?Their results don't show up anywhere near.
I Would I rather have a proven guy (remember where we Draft....Lawrence might be a definite maybe....but after that?......

Tahe cake was already baked on Cam. He could not change. You still have the Marriotas, the Minchews, the Kyle Allens who have taken snaps. I think we can make better use of Draft picks on help with other holes.
DW Toys

 

[stinkypete]

Six of one, half dozen of another. None of these guys are taking us back to the promised land, so cheap is good.

 

[DaBruinz]

Respect your list Cousin. Actaully Carr was probabaly the best on that list this last year. Here is the issue at Vegas....$35mm in a smaller 2021 CAP for two QB's and yes, Mayock would trade with BB.

Perspectives on these left over QB I rate:
Kyle Allen (cheap and I know they tried to get him so due diligence was completed.
Gardner Menshew (cheap and actually has decent stats with a crappier Team than ours in 2020.
"Minshew appeared in 14 games and tossed 21 touchdowns to only six interceptions. The efficiency wasn't great (61 C%, 7.0 YPA, 19% off-target rate), 2559 Passing yards but Minshew made up some ground with his legs, ranking fifth among QBs with 344 rushing yards." Minchew payed one less game and had 13 more TDs passing.and 4 less INTs. Kids only 24.

Cam>

YEAR	TM	G	COMP	ATT	COMP%	YDS	Y/G	Y/A	TD	300+	INT	RUSH	YDS	Y/G	AVG	TD	100+	FUM	LOST
2020	NE	15	242	368	65.8	2657	177.1	7.2	8	2	10	137	592	39.5	4.3

Matt Ryan(now with a new coach might be time to part with a 35 year old dude inATL) Our best QB choice to make the playoffs IMHO. This might be your BB "Sunset QB"

Wentz might be a great reclamation project but his contract is nuts. Would Philly deal him? Yes.
So then you might say Prescott.....but he's in $35mm territory as well. And what would you have to pay the Boys.
Would take a shot with Darnold but Jest won't trade him to us.
Brissett? Never the same after injury Even more expensive that Cam
Alex Smith? Hmm.....
DW Toys

I'm probably going to regret responding to you..

Matt Ryan isn't going to be traded. It would actually cost the Falcons an ADDITIONAL 5M on the cap for them to trade him.

 

[DW Toys]

Six of one, half dozen of another. None of these guys are taking us back to the promised land, so cheap is good.

A realistic post sir!
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

I'm probably going to regret responding to you..

Matt Ryan isn't going to be traded. It would actually cost the Falcons an ADDITIONAL 5M on the cap for them to trade him.

A fair retort sir.
But if Blank knows the end is near, Draft picks now versus 36 years old and........... what if he retires? . New broom sweeps clean in ATL.

Understand, all I am saying is out of this mess of QB's here, unless you give up the farm for Watson, Ryan might have the best chance to get us back to playoffs.

I think the Bronocs. Colts and Texans if they trade Watson would play for Ryan.

Carr ? o.k. but the consensus here is they trade Mariota and keep Carr.

Now one from left field. Pay Andrew Luck a ransom to come back.
This ought to get the torches and pitchforks going.....

Anyone know if we have to compensate the Colts?
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Mariota is excellent as a cheap rehabilitation project and/or backup option with upside. He shouldn't be hyped up as anything beyond that though.

He has good physical traits and is by all accounts a hard worker who gets along with his teammates. He has regularly missed small amounts of time with random injuries, nothing on the level of Garoppolo but not exactly an iron man either.

As a player he was in that weird twilight zone like Tannehill was in Miami (before he went to Tennessee and took Mariota's job, ironically) of not being an outright bum, but not being able to quite put it all together either. I always found him a weird guy to watch because he didn't seem to have any glaring faults and could bust out the genuinely impressive play, but always seemed to be snakebit.

Cousin, Another log on thr fire of trades, Vegas just signed Brud4en favorite Natan Perternab to a $2.75mm deal

Almost $40mm on QBS.
DW Toys

 

[lancerman]

What is the percentage of success for a shiny new rookie QB as a savior to be the Franchise starter?The success throughout the NFL on each Draft class is only 17%. We have done the studies. So in a realistic term of 3 years evealuation, that success amounts to on a per average 2 players.. Most are cut, traded or leave with medical issues. It's true some stay on a roster fillers but are certainly replaceable. The better Teams have less Draft picks make it. The worse the Team is the more younger players are inserted into the roster.

So we have a 17% chance that Mac Jones (etc) would bring the Pats a starter, let alone back to the Play-offs? Do you want those odds Cousin?

For every Allen or Mahomes, there is a "franchise QB" like Goff or Wentz.? Now Preston? Watson? Murray? Tua?Their results don't show up anywhere near.
I Would I rather have a proven guy (remember where we Draft....Lawrence might be a definite maybe....but after that?......

Tahe cake was already baked on Cam. He could not change. You still have the Marriotas, the Minchews, the Kyle Allens who have taken snaps. I think we can make better use of Draft picks on help with other holes.
DW Toys

How often does a cast off win?

In the last 20 years?

Foles. That’s it and it was really a 2nd overall.

It can be a low percent and still be the best percent

 

[Uptown]