Marcus Mariota

[Miguel]

Good insight from Mike Lombardi a couple days ago: Mariota’s contract was designed to pay him as a starter for each game that he plays a significant portion of. While the base salary is only $10M, you’re paying him $20M if he’s your starter all season. A rare example where the cash is a bigger issue than the cap.

Lombardi does not mention that the $20M is only if he leads his team to a Super Bowl victory. $20M then would be a bargain. Lombardi also does not mention all but $625,000 of incentives will be considered NLTBE for this year.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Lombardi does not mention that the $20M is only if he leads his team to a Super Bowl victory. $20M then would be a bargain. Lombardi also does not mention all but $625,000 of incentives will be considered NLTBE for this year.

Thanks Miguel,

The way I read the contract overview is he will earn about $11.5M in 2021 based on salary and incentives LTBE. The NLTBE incentives are $0 to about $3.5M, or a total of $15M if he plays 16 games and wins 3 payoff games. There is also $1M extra for a Super Bowl win which is obviously NLTBE. The NLTBE pushes into 2022 and is not a big dead cap hit. I am not a capologist, so I could be off a bit, but the way I read the contract, it is no where near $20M.

Thanks for the heads up. $11.5M in 2021, and a potential dead cap hit in 2022 of $0 to $3.5M is very reasonable in my opinion. We will not get JG for anything near that.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Reports are the Redskins are in high pursuit of Mariota.
Maybe BB’s love for for Jimmy G burns bright.

I am sure Mariota, at 27 years old, wants to re-establish himself as a starter. That is much more valuable than a 1 year contract. If he is a short pass, quick release guy, then it is possible he would prefer NE to Wash. If you were Marcus Mariota which team would you pick? I know he has to play out his contract in 2021, and I am also sure Gruden will listen to Mariota and his agent's input - that is how it works if a GM wants a good name with the player's union.

 

[DW Toys]

Playing out of your mind in the most pressure filled situations means everything. EVERYTHING. So what he did in 2003 and 2004 means a helluva lot more than running up stats in some dome during the regular season. PLEASE.

Especially when the team is winning 17 games a year. The QB is not needed to rack up the stats when that is going on. Brady showed during year 2003 that he was elite. The Steelers game and especially the Super Bowl proved it.

Cousins,
A little Finnish pancake with syrup and buttered apricot bread and a slice of ham with coffee and juice to start the day this morning.

Maybe we are overlooking one QB who is only 27.
I was not for Wentz in the beginning but the more I look and read he is a good possibility. He has to be a QB who can make BB and the Pats competitive and a shot for the playoffs over the five "definite maybes " in this Draft class after Lawrence.

He has been nicked up many times but that is because he initiated contact too much trying ti be Big Ben.

The outstanding TB12 trait was leadership and mental toughness. I am installing an added rating to the DW Toys methodology for your forum viewing pleasure, of vet QB ratings (giggle if you want):
Toughness and Team leadership.
Let's only use those QBs who MIGHT be tradable:

1-Alex Smith-No contest. Anything left in the tank?

2-Russell Wilson-Team leader extraordinaire. He's not going anywhere. Losing points by publically whining now. Shocked by that.

3-Dak Prescott- See #2. His agent is trying to create more of a financial market than his worth.

4-Gardner Minshew-Yes him. He has a log on his shoulder not a chip. I did not rate these guys as talent, but toughness. He has superb leader qualities. Should be cheap.

5-Ryan Fitzpatrick-Not too many tougher-Inconsistent, yes. Emotional leader.

6-Watson-Has gotten beat up in Houston but still produces. I do NOT like his whining either. So if Watson goes to your Team will he pout to get out in a year or two? He loses points for that B.S. As elite as Wilson. But if you get a chance Pats....... you offer Nick C the farm.

7-Carson Wentz-Took way too many "for the Team" so in essence he hurt the Team by getting dinged trying to be a tough guy. Still learning. Change of scenery to New England.

8-Trubisky-He bounces from starter to bench. Much is self inflicted but he is still young. His comebacks and Late game winners are impressive and I think he is salvagable. FA so no wampum required.

9-Derek Carr-Is more productive than you think. A lot of shots on some bad Raiders Teams in the past

10-Marcus Marita-Appears to be a quiet kid with inconsistent skills. Not a TB12 rah rah for sure. Would not rate him as tough but tougher than Jimmie G.

11- Jimmie G-Made of glass. IMO is a bit of a fancy dan. A lot of image over substance.... but perhaps he is still young

12-Brissett-His players love him so leadership is there but who on this forum wants him at QB if you need a big score to win? Mental toughness enters in here. I think he is a serviceable back up.

13-Kyle Allen-Very interesting story. Bill tried to get him once before. Tough to guage his toughness or leadership but BB saw something.

14-Matt Ryan-Probably top five but he is not going anywhere and he is a little long in the tooth.

15-Tyrod Taylor- Always been impressed with him. Nobody has given him the vote of confidence to succeed. Quite. Leads by example not rah, rah. Not the star power BB needs


TB was TB because he was a leader of the Team. He made everyone around him strive to be competitive.

As Wentz enters Year 5 with the Eagles, the 27-year-old quarterback has the respect of the room. They believe in him. Staring to like Carson Wentz and I have a block buster trade for Howie.

“I’ve been thoroughly impressed with Carson,” Pederson said. “He’s the leader of our football team. He’s coaching up the young players, which is great to see.

“Carson has really taken ownership in this pandemic and where we are as a football team. I’m really excited with where he is now as the leader of our team and excited for this upcoming season with him.”

In 68 Games (not all starts) he has had 9 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives. In 2017 he led the league in QBR.

You are buying him low because of an off year. The Superbowl winning coach was fired this Jan. They were not right as a Team. Was it coach or QB?

The Colts and Bears are pushing to trade for him. The Pats and the Eagles have a history of trading and winding up with each other's players,
The Eagles have rebuffed two #2 picks from the Colts. They want to save face with a first rounder. We can sweep in-

BLOCK BUSTER:

Pats get: QB Carson Wentz and TE Zach Ertz (they want to move) and the Eagles second round pick #37

Eagles get: Pats first round pick #15, CB Stephon Gilmore (they are CB needy) and a 2022 second round pick and a fifth round pick in 2022 if Wentz starts.

These moves are required to get the Pats started for their 2021 quest. The Wentz and Ertz pieces are important but J.J. Watt is as much of a fit here as Harrison. Long, Bennett and Seau were. He should be signed already . Only 30 snaps per game? OK, A fresh Watt is a great weapon.

These two moves start us back.

Thoughts on my QB study?
DW Toys

 

[lancerman]

Cousins,
A little Finnish pancake with syrup and buttered apricot bread and a slice of ham with coffee and juice to start the day this morning.

Maybe we are overlooking one QB who is only 27.
I was not for Wentz in the beginning but the more I look and read he is a good possibility. He has to be a QB who can make BB and the Pats competitive and a shot for the playoffs over the five "definite maybes " in this Draft class after Lawrence.

He has been nicked up many times but that is because he initiated contact too much trying ti be Big Ben.

I am installing an added rating to the DW Toys methodology of vet QB ratings (giggle if you want):
Toughness and Team leadership.
Let's only use those QBs who MIGHT be tradable:

1-Alex Smith-No contest. Anything left in the tank?

2-Russell Wilson-Team leader extraordinaire. He's not going anywhere. Losing points by publically whining now. Shocked by that.

3-Dak Prescott- See #2. His agent is trying to create more of a financial market than his worth.

4-Gardner Minshew-Yes him. He has a log on his shoulder not a chip. I did not rate these guys as talent, but toughness. He has superb leader qualities.

5-Ryan Fitzpatrick-Not too many tougher-Inconsistent, yes. Emotional leader.

6-Watson-Has gotten beat up in Houston but still produces. I do NOT like his whining either. So if he goes to your Team will he pout to get out in a year or two? He loses points for that B.S. As elite as Wilson. You get a chance Pats....... you offer Nick C the farm.

7-Carson Wentz-Took way too many "for the Team" so in essence he hurt the Team by getting dinged trying to be a tough guy. Still learning. Change of scenery.

8-Trubisky-He bounces from starter to bench. Much is self inflicted but he is still young. His comebacks and Late game winners are impressive and I think he is salvagable. FA so no wampum required.

9-Derek Carr-Is more productive than you think. A lot of shots on some bad Raiders Teams in the past

10-Marcus Marita-Appears to be a quiet kid with inconsistent skills. Not a TB12 rah rah for sure. Would not rate him as tough but tougher than Jimmie G.

11- Jimmie G-Made of glass. IMO is a bit of a fancy. A lot of image over substance.... but perhaps he is still young

12-Brissett-His players love him so leadership is there but who on this forum wants him at QB if you need a big score to win? Mental toughness enters in here. I think he is a serviceable back up.

13-Kyle Allen-Very interesting story. Bill tried to get him once before. Tough to guage his toughness or leadership but BB saw something.

14_ Matt Ryan-Probably top five but he is not going anywhere and he is a little long in the tooth.

15-Tyrod Taylor- Always been impressed with him. Nobody has given him the vote of confidence to succeed. Leads by example not rah, rah. Not the star power BB needs


TB was TB because he was a leader of the Team. He made everyone around him strive to be competitive. As he enters Year 5 with the Eagles, the 27-year-old quarterback has the respect of the room. They believe in him. Staring to like Carson Wenze and I have a block buster trade for Howie.

“I’ve been thoroughly impressed with Carson,” Pederson said. “He’s the leader of our football team. He’s coaching up the young players, which is great to see.

“Carson has really taken ownership in this pandemic and where we are as a football team. I’m really excited with where he is now as the leader of our team and excited for this upcoming season with him.”

In 68 Games (not all starts) he has had 9 comebacks, 10 game-winning drives. In 2017 he led the league in QBR.

You are buying him low because of an off year. The Superbowl winning coach was fired this Jan. They wer not right as a Team. Was it coach or QB?

The Colts and Bears are pushing to trade for him. The Pats and the Eagles have a history of trading and winding up with each other's players,
The Eagles have rebuffed two #2 picks from the Colts. They want to save face with a first rounder. We can sweep in-

BLOCK BUSTER:

Pats get: QB Carson Wentz and TE Zach Ertz and the Eagles second round pick #37

Eagles get: Pats first round pick #15, CB Stephon Gilmore (they are CB needy) and a 2022 second round pick and a fifth round pick in 2022 if Wentz starts.

These moves are required to get the Pats started for their 2021 quest. The Wentz and Ertz pieces are important but J.J. Watt is as much of a fit here as Harrison. Long, Bennett and Seau were. He should be signed already . Only 30 snaps per game? OK, A fresh Watt is a great weapon.

These two moves start us back.

Thoughts on my QB study?
DW Toys

I think if you have to give up the 15 and Gilmore for Wentz and Ertz you pass. Hard pass too. Wentz has been all screwed up for awhile and this isn't the place to fix him without support. Ertz is a 30 year old coming off his worst year and a significant injury. Keep Gilmore and use the 15th on someone with potential.

 

[DW Toys]

I think if you have to give up the 15 and Gilmore for Wentz and Ertz you pass. Hard pass too. Wentz has been all screwed up for awhile and this isn't the place to fix him without support. Ertz is a 30 year old coming off his worst year and a significant injury. Keep Gilmore and use the 15th on someone with potential.

Fair enough Cousin but you still need a QB. Sure on Watson but they would torch Nick C if he did a B.O. move.
I am not trusting anyone I see at pick #15 or lower to lead us to the playoffs. Keep in mind BB has a shelf life.He is out for TB12 revenge. Is anyone at #15 or lower even better than Stidham? Yikes to that.
Remember only 17% chance that rookie QB will be with the Pats in three years
Keep in mind the CAP on Gilmore and as a 10 year Vet we can only get a 5th round comp.
DW Toys

 

[UGAPatsfan]

It's a very tough situation the Pats are in... the QB market is wildly overvalued at the moment. So the 15 is only likely to get you a player like Jimmy, Carr, or MAYBE Darnold. Since NONE of those guys are likely to give you many wins above average the value isn't there IMO. BUT...the 15 also is too high for a shot a the only "surefire" prospect which is Lawrence.

And the free agents are free for a reason.

So there aren't many great options.

I suspect what happens is Newton returns, and they also sign a guy like Smith or Fitz and let them compete in TC while grabbing a player like Newman in the 3rd.

Note that I didn't say I LIKE the above scenario but I think that's what we are looking at.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's a very tough situation the Pats are in... the QB market is wildly overvalued at the moment.

What are you basing this theory on?

 

[lancerman]

Fair enough Cousin but you still need a QB. Sure on Watson but they would torch Nick C if he did a B.O. move.
I am not trusting anyone I see at pick #15 or lower to lead us to the playoffs. Keep in mind BB has a shelf life.He is out for TB12 revenge. Is anyone at #15 or lower even better than Stidham? Yikes to that.
Remember only 17% chance that rookie QB will be with the Pats in three years
Keep in mind the CAP on Gilmore and as a 10 year Vet we can only get a 5th round comp.
DW Toys

Then trade up in the draft. I'm sorry but if that's the capital you need for Wentz, you go to the draft.

 

[Love The Drake]

Then trade up in the draft. I'm sorry but if that's the capital you need for Wentz, you go to the draft.

Agree rather grab Wilson or Lance than Wentz.
I don’t think Wentz is that much better than Tru

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Agree rather grab Wilson or Lance than Wentz.
I don’t think Wentz is that much better than Tru

Actually agree. Don't want Wentz period. Rather have Alex Smith...that should tell you my confidence in Wentz.

 

[luuked]

Playing out of your mind in the most pressure filled situations means everything. EVERYTHING.

Consistency means everything. What someone does in a couple games but not in others is meaningless because you can't count that. You are not elite until you can do elite things again and again. Flacco, Eli, Foles.. they all had elite level individual games but they could never do it over a stretch. That is what makes your QB special.. and not some outliers.

 

[Wax Frog]

Cousins,
A little Finnish pancake with syrup and buttered apricot bread and a slice of ham with coffee and juice to start the day this morning.

 

[upstater1]

Consistency means everything. What someone does in a couple games but not in others is meaningless because you can't count that. You are not elite until you can do elite things again and again. Flacco, Eli, Foles.. they all had elite level individual games but they could never do it over a stretch. That is what makes your QB special.. and not some outliers.

How is it an outlier? It's a great year. They went 14-2. He was excellent in the games he needed to be excellent. He went to the playoffs and played out of his mind.

I'll say it again: dome games padding stats during the regular season don't make you consistent. If that were true, Matt Ryan would be an all-timer.

Also, put things in perspective. The league MVP back in 2003 was Peyton Manning with 29 TDs, 10 INTs, 4200 yards, 99 passer rating. Until 2007 (which was the first full season with both rules changes re: grabbing WRs after 5 yards and can't hit the QB below the thigh), this was basically normal passing stats. Peyton himself used to throw between 15-25 INTs his first 5 or 6 years in the league.

Put it in perspective and you see that Brady was already one of the 2 or 3 best QBs in the league in 2003. Brett Favre, the next guy considered great after Manning, was 32 TDs, 21 INTs, for 3300 yards. Compare to Brady's 23 TDs, 12 INTs, 3600 yards.

Here's the stat that is a kicker: during the regular season, Brady had 5 game winning drives, second only to Jake Delhomme.

 

[fnordcircle]

#1 - Fitz + a QB draft pick.

#2 - Mariota

#3 - JimmyG

#4 - Wentz.

I rapidly lose interest in everything else.

 

[DW Toys]

#1 - Fitz + a QB draft pick.

#2 - Mariota

#3 - JimmyG

#4 - Wentz.

I rapidly lose interest in everything else.

Cousin, I'd be good with Mariota but some posters are pushing a narrative that QB's in this Draft are playoff ready. I see a mediocre group at best.
I would mention it again that Bill is in "win now" mode.
I am all for a great young QB.
Riddle me.....Who can bring us to the playoffs?Fields? Nyet, The Lance man? He played one game this year against "The Littlre Sisters of the Shrine" college and didn't throw.
It's not the Vet QB we get , it is what weapons we add.
I can see a Draft pick if we are aiming at Lawrence......then who? You have three dudes that are Cam clones (maybe throw better but who knows). Another kid with all the talent in the world who thinks hes already at Mahomes status.....He makeds Antonio Brown look shy! BB won't stand for that crap.
Then you have Mac Jones. With his WR corp, I could be successful.
With all due respect, who might you select? Mariota would be fine.
DW Toys

 

[stcjones]

Don't see too many people mention him as an option. But he looked pretty good in one game for the raiders.

Has legs like cam newton but has a better arm and is younger. And shouldn't be too expensive. If he works out with the Patriots could be a decent bridge while they draft a guy

Honestly haven't heard much news about him at all.

No.

 

[stcjones]

Thing with Brissett is idk if he would be much if an upgrade on cam newton. His best year he had 18 passing tds and 4 rushing TDs.

Honestly could see cam newton match that if this team upgrades the receiver and tight end positions

Cam is awful....I think we can all agree on that. Having elite receivers doesn’t help if you can’t make quick decisions and your throwing mechanics are way off due to shoulder injuries....just makes me nervous that BB hasn’t released him yet

 

[luuked]

How is it an outlier? It's a great year. They went 14-2. He was excellent in the games he needed to be excellent. He went to the playoffs and played out of his mind.

I'll say it again: dome games padding stats during the regular season don't make you consistent. If that were true, Matt Ryan would be an all-timer.

Also, put things in perspective. The league MVP back in 2003 was Peyton Manning with 29 TDs, 10 INTs, 4200 yards, 99 passer rating. Until 2007 (which was the first full season with both rules changes re: grabbing WRs after 5 yards and can't hit the QB below the thigh), this was basically normal passing stats. Peyton himself used to throw between 15-25 INTs his first 5 or 6 years in the league.

Put it in perspective and you see that Brady was already one of the 2 or 3 best QBs in the league in 2003. Brett Favre, the next guy considered great after Manning, was 32 TDs, 21 INTs, for 3300 yards. Compare to Brady's 23 TDs, 12 INTs, 3600 yards.

Here's the stat that is a kicker: during the regular season, Brady had 5 game winning drives, second only to Jake Delhomme.

Again. Go look at his ANY/A and how it improved in three phases and how it matches up with the actual real time perception of him back then, and not with your mind trying to retroactively apply what he has been since 2007 onto his entire career.

You are acting like players don't improve and develop through their first 4-5 years in the league which is just absolutely bonkers. And this has nothing to do with domes, other players or some comparison of individual stats. You can clearly see the curve of improvement when it comes to Brady from 2001-2007 where he goes from above average QB with great moments -- which is in itself a success after being pick #199 a year ago -- to consistently great.

Instead you are acting like he appeared on the field and immediately became football Jesus.

 

[upstater1]

Again. Go look at his ANY/A and how it improved in three phases and how it matches up with the actual real time perception of him back then, and not with your mind trying to retroactively apply what he has been since 2007 onto his entire career.

You are acting like players don't improve and develop through their first 4-5 years in the league which is just absolutely bonkers. And this has nothing to do with domes, other players or some comparison of individual stats. You can clearly see the curve of improvement when it comes to Brady from 2001-2007 where he goes from above average QB with great moments -- which is in itself a success after being pick #199 a year ago -- to consistently great.

Instead you are acting like he appeared on the field and immediately became football Jesus.

It has everything to do with stat padders on teams that don't win much and in domes.

Everything.

If you're on a 17 win team, you're just not asked to press the passing game especially in an era when passing was so much more difficult. I'll say it again: Favre, the second best QB of the era, threw for 20+ interceptions in the year we're discussing.

You're talking about Brady's development and increased production but that's in a pass happy league with massive rules changes that changed the face of the entire game. Without the rules changes, you can't look at Brady's increased production mid-career, because he simply would not have those stats, not unless you believe that Brady became 2x the QB that Manning and Favre ever were prior to 2004.

Brady was balling in the playoffs. Playoffs are more important that regular season. The play is more difficult. QBs in 99% of the cases need to rise to a much higher level. Unless they're Trent Dilfer once in a blue moon. Brady against the Steelers and Panthers was magnificent, and that means so much more than regular season stat padding. Put it this way: there is very little Brady could've done better in those games other than one pick. Put any QB at the top of his game in those games, and they wouldn't have done better. Joe Montana wouldn't have done better. By 2003, Brady was already top 3.