Manning is more skilled than Brady? Please explain.

[ScottieC]

For follow up, here is Pro-Football-Reference.com:

Peyton Manning Gamelogs and Game Logs - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Manning's passer ratings in playoff losses:

62.3 (0 td, 0 int)
82.0 (1 td, 0 int)
31.2 (0 td, 2 int)
35.5 (1 td, 4 int)
69.3 (0 td, 1 int)
90.9 (1 td, 0 int)
97.7 (3 td, 2 int)
90.4 (1 td, 0 int)

Blaming the defense is a cop-out for the Manning apologists on this issue.

Also, one other thing of note: Manning has played in 15 playoff games and, given that he's been bounced early more often than Brady, he's played a higher percentage of 'lesser' opponents than has Brady. Nonetheless, he's led the Colts to fewer than 20 points on 8 occasions. Brady, in 17 playoff games and against better teams, has led the Patriots to fewer than 20 points in only 4 games.

I do enjoy these arguments from the point that it makes everyone a much more skilled Peyton Vs. Tommy debater - No matter the side you are on, it's a great lesson on the game of these two future HOF'ers............well at least one certain first ballot HOF'er.

 

[feldspar]

Ugh. Those aren't playoff games.

You. Are. Talking. About. His. Pro. Bowl. Games.

LOL, you are right, and I look stupid.

Here is the real losses:

2000: 82 QB rating
2004: 64.3 QB rating
2007: 97.7 QB rating
2008: 90.4 QB rating - this one I got right!

Not that bad, really, either though.

Here are the other ones:

1999: 62.3
2002: 31.2
2003: 35.5
2004: 69.3
2005: 90.9
2006: Super Bowl win

I gotta admit that there are some completely horrible games, here, especially the games where he was in the 30s. I also have to tuck my tail between my legs and admit that Brady has been superior in the post-season as far as consistency goes. Manning has had better games by far than Brady in the playoffs, but Brady seems to be the more stable influence, which is better. Although, Brady has won playoff games with a worse passer rating than Manning had in a loss.

I still feel that Manning is asked to do more for his team.

 

[ScottieC]

Couldn't find his stats here.


His rating was 64.3.


It was 97.7.


This is like the only one you got right.


Where the hell did you get your stats?

He gets them here:

www. feldsparfantasystats.com

You can also find them here:

www. thinkpeytonisbetterthanbradybutyoudonthavedatatobackitupclickhere .com

Or if you still can't find them then check this last one:

www. Bradyisbetterthanmanningbutherearesomethingsyoucansaythatwilldriveapatsfancrazy .com

 

[Its_The_Patriots]

He is more skilled at letting everybody know he might be calling an audible.

He is more skilled at growing a forehead.

He is more skilled on SNL skits.

He is more skilled at Oreo licking competitions.

He is more skilled in communicating to the media that it was the offensive line's fault.

He is more skilled at Riverdance impersonations when there is pocket pressure.

This is by far the most funniest post I've heard all day, and the 6th sentence tops the list, but one little correction, even when there is no pocket pressure he's still impersonating. :lol2:

 

[ScottieC]

LOL, you are right, and I look stupid.

Here is the real losses:

2000: 82 QB rating
2004: 64.3 QB rating
2007: 97.7 QB rating
2008: 90.4 QB rating - this one I got right!

Not that bad, really, either though.

Here are the other ones:

1999: 62.3
2002: 31.2
2003: 35.5
2004: 69.3
2005: 90.9
2006: Super Bowl win

I gotta admit that there are some completely horrible games, here, especially the games where he was in the 30s. I also have to tuck my tail between my legs and admit that Brady has been superior in the post-season as far as consistency goes. Manning has had better games by far than Brady in the playoffs, but Brady seems to be the more stable influence, which is better. Although, Brady has won playoff games with a worse passer rating than Manning had in a loss.

I still feel that Manning is asked to do more for his team.

He's asked to win and direct the offense - don't kid yourself and think he does any more.

Last time I checked he plays in ONE phase of the game, offense - He's not playing a down on Special Teams and Defense.

When NOT on the field he sits by himself - away from his lineman - drinks Gatorade and talks to that old fat dude that is now gone.

 

[feldspar]

He gets them here:

www. feldsparfantasystats.com

You can also find them here:

www. thinkpeytonisbetterthanbradybutyoudonthavedatatobackitupclickhere .com

Or if you still can't find them then check this last one:

www. Bradyisbetterthanmanningbutherearesomethingsyoucansaythatwilldriveapatsfancrazy .com

This is very funny, and I had it coming.

...but you are wrong.

I got my stats at feldsparhasahangover.com.

 

[glm]

He gets them here:

www. feldsparfantasystats.com

You can also find them here:

www. thinkpeytonisbetterthanbradybutyoudonthavedatatobackitupclickhere .com

Or if you still can't find them then check this last one:

www. Bradyisbetterthanmanningbutherearesomethingsyoucansaythatwilldriveapatsfancrazy .com

The last one worked for me.

 

[feldspar]

He's asked to win and direct the offense - don't kid yourself and think he does any more.

Last time I checked he plays in ONE phase of the game, offense - He's not playing a down on Special Teams and Defense.

When NOT on the field he sits by himself - away from his lineman - drinks Gatorade and talks to that old fat dude that is now gone.

Hey, man, my intent was never to Brady down. I juggled a few numbers wrong, but what you just said is part of my point. How much do you think Manning has trusted his defense as compared to Brady trusting his?

 

[ScottieC]

Hey, man, my intent was never to Brady down. I juggled a few numbers wrong, but what you just said is part of my point. How much do you think Manning has trusted his defense as compared to Brady trusting his?

I hear ya - to answer your question, I think that Peyton and Brady both have to trust in their defense. I think Brady has an upper hand in the defense, not because the patriots have fielded better D's - but because he has a defensive genius as a coach.

I think that you did well in many of your arguments in this thread - but when you are arguing against Brady it's a hard sell - and not just to the Patriot fans that make up this board, but in general.

It does not help your case that you were arguing against him to some of the most knowledgeable people that post here (I'm not one of them BTW) and those same people represent a group that are so football smart that they are NOT homers as much as students of the game....along with being die hard Pats fans.

This has been a fun read. Well done.

 

[Deus Irae]

I hear ya - to answer your question, I think that Peyton and Brady both have to trust in their defense. I think Brady has an upper hand in the defense, not because the patriots have fielded better D's - but because he has a defensive genius as a coach...

Dungy was considered a great defensive coach, too.

 

[feldspar]

I hear ya - to answer your question, I think that Peyton and Brady both have to trust in their defense. I think Brady has an upper hand in the defense, not because the patriots have fielded better D's - but because he has a defensive genius as a coach.

I think that you did well in many of your arguments in this thread - but when you are arguing against Brady it's a hard sell - and not just to the Patriot fans that make up this board, but in general.

It does not help your case that you were arguing against him to some of the most knowledgeable people that post here (I'm not one of them BTW) and those same people represent a group that are so football smart that they are NOT homers as much as students of the game....along with being die hard Pats fans.

This has been a fun read. Well done.

Well, thanks for the kind words. I appreciate that. Manning vs. Brady is one of the hottest debated topics, really. It's a tough one, that's why. It's hard to sell one without looking like you are putting down the other, which is hard to do. Makes it a slippery argument on both sides.

 

[feldspar]

Dungy was considered a great defensive coach, too.

Am I being ignored, or can we be friends again?

 

[ScottieC]

Dungy was considered a great defensive coach, too.

True Deus and unarguable. However, Dungy is not on Bill's level.

However, your contrarian view is duly noted.

 

[Deus Irae]

True Deus and unarguable. However, Dungy is not on Bill's level.

However, your contrarian view is duly noted.

Just pointing out something missed, as opposed to being contrarian, my good man...


As for Dungy not being on BB's level, however, I'm guessing that Colts' boards would have been vehemently disagreeing with that, at least while he was still coaching there. Part of the insanity of the Brady/Manning debates is the amount of backtracking and nonsensical gyrations fans of both teams do to try pimping their chosen player.

 

[ScottieC]

Just pointing out something missed, as opposed to being contrarian, my good man...


As for Dungy not being on BB's level, however, I'm guessing that Colts' boards would have been vehemently disagreeing with that, at least while he was still coaching there. Part of the insanity of the Brady/Manning debates is the amount of backtracking and nonsensical gyrations fans of both teams do to try pimping their chosen player.

And you know I was just poking fun at you. :verycool:

Sure they would, as I would expect them to argue and defend Dungy's football honor.

However, I think Bill's resume is a little more impressive than Dungy's.

You can argue talent, LT and the some of the guys that he has had the chance to work with along with the lessons learned from those players.

But his defensive game plans and adjustments are that of legend - one SB not withstanding.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Ugh. Those aren't playoff games.

You. Are. Talking. About. His. Pro. Bowl. Games.

OMFG...

Although to be fair I believe in Indianapolis since it is played in February they count those pro Bowl games just like playoffs...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

He's asked to win and direct the offense - don't kid yourself and think he does any more.

Last time I checked he plays in ONE phase of the game, offense - He's not playing a down on Special Teams and Defense.

When NOT on the field he sits by himself - away from his lineman - drinks Gatorade and talks to that old fat dude that is now gone.

And he gets paid roughly $4M per year more to do just that. Maybe that's the crux of the problem with their ST and D...

 

[Deus Irae]

And you know I was just poking fun at you. :verycool:

Sure they would, as I would expect them to argue and defend Dungy's football honor.

However, I think Bill's resume is a little more impressive than Dungy's.

You can argue talent, LT and the some of the guys that he has had the chance to work with along with the lessons learned from those players.

But his defensive game plans and adjustments are that of legend - one SB not withstanding.

Oh, I agree about BB, and I would break down the surrounding players and staff like this, as an "over the course of time" evaluation:

Head coach - Brady
Coordinators - Manning, due to consistency
Position coaches - who cares?
Receivers - Manning
Running backs - Manning
Defenses - relatively even*, with Brady getting the slight nod
Schemes - relatively even**, with Manning getting the advantage for bulk numbers and schematic consistency

*One advantage for Brady is that the Colts' defense was designed to play with a lead rather than from behind. Brady could be more comfortable with a slow start than Manning could.

**Brady was often playing in a system that emphasized clock control and possession rather than firepower and scoring, so that would be a drag on his raw numbers (total yards, total points, etc...)

Oh, I almost forgot one:

Corrupt officials and whining Competition Committee members - Manning

 

[ScottieC]

Oh, I agree about BB, and I would break down the surrounding players and staff like this, as an "over the course of time" evaluation:

Head coach - Brady
Coordinators - Manning, due to consistency
Position coaches - who cares?
Receivers - Manning
Running backs - Manning
Defenses - relatively even*, with Brady getting the slight nod
Schemes - relatively even**, with Manning getting the advantage for bulk numbers and schematic consistency

*One advantage for Brady is that the Colts' defense was designed to play with a lead rather than from behind. Brady could be more comfortable with a slow start than Manning could.

**Brady was often playing in a system that emphasized clock control and possession rather than firepower and scoring, so that would be a drag on his raw numbers (total yards, total points, etc...)

Oh, I almost forgot one:

Corrupt officials and whining Competition Committee members - Manning

That's probably one of the most underused perfect examples of how good Bill is and his football intellect taking control of a game - The 2007 season notwithstanding when he realized exactly what he had. That might also explain some of the adjustments that we hoped to see in the SB that year not actually happening. I would imagine if Bill was honest that game or perhaps that entire season was not to his liking, as stupid as that may sound, because it was as far from how he managed games in the past as we have ever seen.

That's why I have so much hope for this season, the lesson learned in 2007 was never really delivered to the NFL because of Brady's injury. I think Bill will deliver it this year....in spades.

 

[ScottieC]

And he gets paid roughly $4M per year more to do just that. Maybe that's the crux of the problem with their ST and D...

Good point Mo, also I will never understand Polian's refusal to build thru free agency.

Their hands are tied by the cap and the lack of room they have -but goodness, there are guys there that can help the team. So be it.