Manning’s 51st touchdown pass will add another flawed record to the books…

[dannydyn]

To me the whole pass TD thing is flawed. A pass TD should be just that: a pass to a receiver that is ALREADY IN THE END ZONE. My grandma can throw a 5-yard dink, and have the receiver carry the ball 80 some odd yards for a TD.... why does the NFL count a ball carried INTO the endzone as a pass TD?!?!? I understand that the TD was made as a result of a pass, but having your receiver do the work for you (the QB) is nothing impressive. Pass TDs INTO the end zone, should be the only way Pass TDs are counted.

 

[Ring 6]

According to the usually reliable Pro Football Reference.com, in 1961, George Blanda threw 36 TD passes (line #17 in the attached document), leading his team to the League Championship and breaking the record set by Johnny Unitas' in 1959 (#45 in the attached document). In 1963, Y.A. Tittle tied that record (#17 in the attached) but did not lead his team to the NFL title. That record stood until Marino's 48, about which we are in agreement.

You are correct that my original post should have read "League Championship" and not "NFL Championship" in that one paragraph. But, in case you're just arguing a technicality, Blanda is regarded as an NFL player and his record is commonly regarded as a League record as a result of the merger. Denigrating his 1961 record is the same as denigrating Peyton's for the reasons proposed in this thread. Blanda is among the top 5 QB's ever to play the game in my book and his records are very, very real, whichever League can claim him as its own at the time.

Here is the link to Blanda's career, showing that he played in the League until 1975 and also showing that he threw 36 TD passes in 1961, bolded in the text to indicate that it was a League record at the time: George Blanda NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

If my source is wrong, please provide me with a link that demonstrates it to be so. Here is the link to my data: NFL Single-Season Passing Touchdowns Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com.

If you prove (!) me wrong, I will write to my source and correct their error, which would have to comprise multiple and systematic errors across a very large data base, but is possible.

On a personal note, I work with data all the time and teach statistics at the Grad school level. I have learned that I can always be wrong, but that I need to be respectful of others when I think I have them on the facts. It's a lesson you would do well to learn.

His point was that Blanda was in the AFL

 

[sb1]

It's fascinating to see Pats fans morph into Colts fans from 10 years ago when they were pounding their chest about Manning over Brady.

Like how "dink and dunk" stats are somehow tarnished...that is funny given the way our own QB thrived early in his career....

 

[Sicilian]

To me the whole pass TD thing is flawed. A pass TD should be just that: a pass to a receiver that is ALREADY IN THE END ZONE. My grandma can throw a 5-yard dink, and have the receiver carry the ball 80 some odd yards for a TD.... why does the NFL count a ball carried INTO the endzone as a pass TD?!?!? I understand that the TD was made as a result of a pass, but having your receiver do the work for you (the QB) is nothing impressive. Pass TDs INTO the end zone, should be the only way Pass TDs are counted.

Can't be that black and white. Imagine a play where a WR is on a go route, and beats his man clean. The QB delivers the ball to him, but it's slightly underthrown, causing the WR to need to slow down and ultimately get tackled after the catch.

Now, same scenario, but the QB delivers the ball perfectly to hit the WR in stride, allowing him to continue running the next 30 yards into the end zone untouched.

Where the QB places the ball has a direct correlation with a player running the ball into the end zone.

 

[Off The Grid]

1 ~ In 1961, George Blanda threw 36 TD passes to break Johnny Unitas' single season record

2 ~ ...and went on to lead his team to the NFL championship.

3 ~ That's the last time that a Quarterback who set this particular record also won the NFL title.

4 ~ 52 years ago.

Not to be rough, but that's wrong 4 Times, my friend.

1 ~ Blanda wasn't even in the NFL in 1961. Hence, he couldn't break Unitas's Record.

2 ~ As he wasn't in the NFL, he had little chance to lead his Team to the NFL Championship.

3 ~ Hence: He was not the last QB to break the Record and win the NFL Title, as you claim.

4 ~ Johny Unitas was. 54 Years ago. In 1959.

All of this, I covered, just a few Posts ago, on the previous Page:

***

1 ~ In 1962, Yel Tittle broke the NFL Record with 33 TouchDowns.
2 ~ In 1963, he broke it again with 36 TouchDowns.
3 ~ In 1984, Dan Marino broke it with 48.
4 ~ In 2004, Peyton Manning broke it with 49.
5 ~ In 2007, Tom Brady broke it with 50.

7 QuarterBacks have thrown more'n 42 TouchDowns in a Season.

None of these 12 historically prolific Seasons produced a Championship.

Blanda is regarded as an NFL player

I have learned that I can always be wrong, but that I need to be respectful of others when I think I have them on the facts. It's a lesson you would do well to learn.

1 ~ Blanda was not in the NFL in 1961. I'm sorry that that confuses you.

2 ~ You have heard of the AFL...right??

3 ~ We all make mistakes. I merely pointed yours out, so that others weren't misled by your False Statement. And my manner was quite respectful. Unlike yours. :snob:

4 ~ If pointing out your Failure in a respectful manner offends you, then perhaps you should consider avoiding posting nonsense such as "George Blanda...led his Team to the NFL Championship." in the future.

5 ~ Adults admit mistakes and move on. What they don't do is defend demonstrably false & foolish statements like "That's the last time that a Quarterback who set this particular record also won the NFL title."

But, hey...I suppose you could just read me your Resume, again.

 

[Miguel]

My reply to a flawed post

Broncos line up to run a play. Peyton figures out what the defense is going to do. He checks to another play that leads to throwing a short pass but because the defense is now in a poor position to defend against it the play turns into a touchdown. And Brady6 considers that flawed?

Is not the job of the quarterback to call plays with the most optimal outcome? Is not the most optimal outcome of a play a touchdown?

 

[Raymond]

Re: My reply to a flawed post

Broncos line up to run a play. Peyton figures out what the defense is going to do. He checks to another play that leads to throwing a short pass but because the defense is now in a poor position to defend against it the play turns into a touchdown. And Brady6 considers that flawed?

Is not the job of the quarterback to call plays with the most optimal outcome? Is not the most optimal outcome of a play a touchdown?

Exactly.

Herm Edwards "You play to win the game!" - YouTube

 

[PatsFanInVa]

How many times do we have to make the exact same argument Manning fans would make during another era before we realize we just like our guy, and wahhh, it looks like the anti-our-guy is going to get back a record our guy took from him.

I got a couple numbers for ya:

34-31.



(By the way, that's not to gainsay the "oh no Peyton isn't slinging the ball way downfield" point, it's more to say, that's why we're selecting that point to make.)

We just have to beat the Denvernapolis Broncoltriots if it comes down to a head-to-head game - that's what I care about.

PFnV

 

[Brady6]

Re: My reply to a flawed post

Exactly.

Herm Edwards "You play to win the game!" - YouTube

Broncos line up to run a play. Peyton figures out what the defense is going to do. He checks to another play that leads to throwing a short pass but because the defense is now in a poor position to defend against it the play turns into a touchdown. And Brady6 considers that flawed?

Is not the job of the quarterback to call plays with the most optimal outcome? Is not the most optimal outcome of a play a touchdown?

As I said in several posts after my OP the word flawed was a poor choice. There is nothing flawed about what Manning is doing I was wrong in my predication of that, I consider Manning’s feats this season to be less impressive than what Brady did in 2007 due to the degree of difficulty and feel the level of recognition that Manning is getting compared to his receiving corp. not evenly distributed and in particular the receivers are receiving far less recognition than Brady’s did in 2007.

What you’ve said is 100% true what Manning is doing is scoring points although I think he is chasing a record so he is more inclined to through a 1 yard corner fade to Decker over handing off to a random FB like say Develin the purpose of the game is to score points so as long as Manning is doing that it is not flawed and as I said my choice of word was poor.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

1 ~ Blanda was not in the NFL in 1961. I'm sorry that that confuses you.

2 ~ You have heard of the AFL...right??

3 ~ We all make mistakes. I merely pointed yours out, so that others weren't misled by your False Statement. And my manner was quite respectful. Unlike yours. :snob:

4 ~ If pointing out your Failure in a respectful manner offends you, then perhaps you should consider avoiding posting nonsense such as "George Blanda...led his Team to the NFL Championship." in the future.

5 ~ Adults admit mistakes and move on. What they don't do is defend demonstrably false & foolish statements like "That's the last time that a Quarterback who set this particular record also won the NFL title."

But, hey...I suppose you could just read me your Resume, again.

Thanks for the attempts at sarcasm. Keep practicing; you might actually get to be good at it. And, I corrected myself many posts ago to the effect that, in my haste, I should have said the "League" and not the "NFL" Championship. It was a typo that I tried to correct but was no longer able to "Edit." Sorry. I trust you've never had a typo out here.

I addressed your broader point in two subsequent posts.

There is no reasonable argument or doubt that George Blanda is evaluated as an NFL player on the basis of his entire career to the extent that his enshrinement and official resume in Canton comprise the records set and statistics garnered across all of his playing years: Hall of Famers » GEORGE BLANDA. That's good enough for me.

As I also said above, even if Canton were not so clear on the subject, I would still view that argument as a technicality and so, apparently, do those in a far better position than am I to evaluate his accomplishments.

In my book, George Blanda is on the final list of any discussion of the greatest NFL Quarterbacks of all time along with Brady, P. Manning, Montana, Starr and Unitas. The first initial of the League in which he played in any given year is irrelevant.

As I said to the OP, we will just have to agree to disagree on that if you see it otherwise. But, whether you agree or disagree, my argument is well supported and reasonable; save your attempts at sarcasm for other situations.

 

[cstjohn17]

This is as lame as it gets, if Manning breaks the record he earned it. He is among the best QBs ever. <- period

I still prefer Brady but don't really understand the nerdy, pathetic homerism.

 

[Ring 6]

In my book, George Blanda is on the final list of any discussion of the greatest NFL Quarterbacks of all time along with Brady, P. Manning, Montana, Starr and Unitas. The first initial of the League in which he played in any given year is irrelevant.

Wow. You may be the only person I have ever seen even attempt to make such an argument. I'd love to hear your reasoning.
Here is what I see, perhaps you can give me the other side.

Career 47.7% complete. 236 TDs and 277 Ints
W/L record of 53-50-1.
Career passer rating 60.6 This ranks 210 out of 240 qualifiers on profootballreference.com

Started just 21 NFL games before age 33 when he became a starter in the fledgling AFL.
Led the league in Ints 4 consecutive years, including a still record 42 in a 42 game season.
His 277 Ints are 2nd all time. 1st is Favre. Blanda 277 in 4007 attempts Favre 336 in 10,169.

Just using his contemporaries, and quickly glancing at a list I come up with at least:
Tarkenton
Jurgensen
Tittle
Brodie
Graham
Gariel
Dawson
Layne
Lamonica
Griese
Namath
Stabler
Van Brocklin

in addition to the 2 you mentioned who were clearly and easily better than George Blanda. I don't think I would have him in the top 50 and maybe not top 100 QBs of all time. The fact that he made the HOF as a kicker doesn't really factor in to what kind of QB he was.

 

[Ring 6]

This is as lame as it gets, if Manning breaks the record he earned it. He is among the best QBs ever. <- period

I still prefer Brady but don't really understand the nerdy, pathetic homerism.

Lets not cast all Patsfans under the net of one guy trying to make up a reason to disparage Manning.
These are the kind of threads we should delete before fans of other teams read them and think it is representative of Patsfans in general. That would be quite embarrassing.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Wow. You may be the only person I have ever seen even attempt to make such an argument. I'd love to hear your reasoning.
Here is what I see, perhaps you can give me the other side.

Career 47.7% complete. 236 TDs and 277 Ints
W/L record of 53-50-1.
Career passer rating 60.6 This ranks 210 out of 240 qualifiers on profootballreference.com

Started just 21 NFL games before age 33 when he became a starter in the fledgling AFL.
Led the league in Ints 4 consecutive years, including a still record 42 in a 42 game season.
His 277 Ints are 2nd all time. 1st is Favre. Blanda 277 in 4007 attempts Favre 336 in 10,169.

Just using his contemporaries, and quickly glancing at a list I come up with at least:
Tarkenton
Jurgensen
Tittle
Brodie
Graham
Gariel
Dawson
Layne
Lamonica
Griese
Namath
Stabler
Van Brocklin

in addition to the 2 you mentioned who were clearly and easily better than George Blanda. I don't think I would have him in the top 50 and maybe not top 100 QBs of all time. The fact that he made the HOF as a kicker doesn't really factor in to what kind of QB he was.

Thanks for the research and polite disagreement, Andy. I wish others could be as civil when calling someone out. I enjoy debating with folks like you and several others for that reason. I've put a couple of posters on my mental "ignore" list as a result of this thread.

Yes, you're quite right on those facts. And, I was probably overreacting to the other posters' tone.

I'd try to rescue my Blanda case in this way. He was with a very bad/mediocre Bears team in his early days, so his W/L Record looks different if you take those years out. His pass rating outside of Chicago was closer to 63, not great but more representative of QB's of his era.

But, yeah, if I'm being objective he probably doesn't belong on the list I named as a pure QB. But, the role he played as a K and, indeed, in the evolution of the AFL into its ability to gain parity with the NFL does set him apart. But, this is not an argument for which I am ready to go to the wall. I would still have him kicking around in my top ten at the position, but not for his passing alone. The leadership that a QB provides is multidimensional and Blanda excelled on that part of the job.

I'm also going to stick to my guns on the point that got me so exercised over Blanda in the first place. I regard his 36 passes as a legitimate "League Record" for the entity that is now the NFL, but which played under separate aegis' when he actually set it. If Canton includes those stats in an undifferentiated way, I feel comfortable looking at it through that lens myself. I respect your disagreeing with that, but it's just the way I see it.

Go Pats today! I hope you're staying warm.

 

[Off The Grid]

1 ~ In 1961, George Blanda threw 36 TD passes to break Johnny Unitas' single season record

2 ~ ...and went on to lead his team to the NFL championship.

3 ~ That's the last time that a Quarterback who set this particular record also won the NFL title.

4 ~ 52 years ago.

Not to be rough, but that's wrong 4 Times, my friend.

1 ~ Blanda wasn't even in the NFL in 1961. Hence, he couldn't break Unitas's Record.

2 ~ As he wasn't in the NFL, he had little chance to lead his Team to the NFL Championship.

3 ~ Hence: He was not the last QB to break the Record and win the NFL Title, as you claim.

4 ~ Johny Unitas was. 54 Years ago. In 1959.

All of this, I covered, just a few Posts ago, on the previous Page:

***

1 ~ In 1962, Yel Tittle broke the NFL Record with 33 TouchDowns.
2 ~ In 1963, he broke it again with 36 TouchDowns.
3 ~ In 1984, Dan Marino broke it with 48.
4 ~ In 2004, Peyton Manning broke it with 49.
5 ~ In 2007, Tom Brady broke it with 50.

7 QuarterBacks have thrown more'n 42 TouchDowns in a Season.

None of these 12 historically prolific Seasons produced a Championship.

Blanda is regarded as an NFL player

I have learned that I can always be wrong, but that I need to be respectful of others when I think I have them on the facts. It's a lesson you would do well to learn.

1 ~ Blanda was not in the NFL in 1961. I'm sorry that that confuses you.

2 ~ You have heard of the AFL...right??

3 ~ We all make mistakes. I merely pointed yours out, so that others weren't misled by your False Statement. And my manner was quite respectful. Unlike yours.

4 ~ If pointing out your Failure in a respectful manner offends you, then perhaps you should consider avoiding posting nonsense such as "George Blanda...led his Team to the NFL Championship." in the future.

5 ~ Adults admit mistakes and move on. What they don't do is defend demonstrably false & foolish statements like "That's the last time that a Quarterback who set this particular record also won the NFL title."

But, hey...I suppose you could just read me your Resume, again.

I should have said the "League" and not the "NFL" Championship.

It was a typo...

Yeah. Just a typo...like when the RedSox won the Stanley Cup!!

I'm so glad that you're so comfortable acknowledging when you've made a gigantic Error and misled everyone with your gigantic False Statements.

I'm so glad that you had the Dignity and Integrity to acknowledge your gigantic Error and thank me for respectfully pointing it out...as opposed to, say, squawking about the way that I prevented the others from being misled by your gigantic False Statements...False Statements that you might've avoided committing if you'd actually done your own HomeWork.

Remarkable, though, that you persist in trying to defend your gigantic Fail.

You and I ~ and anyone who's cared to read this exchange to amuse themselves at an idle Hour ~ knows full well that it's painfully obvious that instead of doing authentic research you lazily hit up FootBall Reference, got a list, and then assumed that it reflected the reality of Time & Events...and that I busted you on it.

Your persistence in trying to squirm your way out of your own Falsehoods has amused me immensely.

Sorry.

Apology...accepted.



And, yes, you are dismissed.

 

[Off The Grid]

In my book, George Blanda is on the final list of any discussion of the greatest NFL Quarterbacks of all time along with Brady, P. Manning, Montana, Starr and Unitas.

Wow.

You may be the only person I have ever seen even attempt to make such an argument.

I'd love to hear your reasoning.

Here is what I see, perhaps you can give me the other side.

Career 47.7% complete. 236 TDs and 277 Ints
W/L record of 53-50-1.
Career passer rating 60.6 This ranks 210 out of 240 qualifiers on profootballreference.com

Started just 21 NFL games before age 33 when he became a starter in the fledgling AFL.
Led the league in Ints 4 consecutive years, including a still record 42 in a 42 game season.
His 277 Ints are 2nd all time. 1st is Favre. Blanda 277 in 4007 attempts Favre 336 in 10,169.

Just using his contemporaries, and quickly glancing at a list I come up with at least:
Tarkenton
Jurgensen
Tittle
Brodie
Graham
Gariel
Dawson
Layne
Lamonica
Griese
Namath
Stabler
Van Brocklin

in addition to the 2 you mentioned who were clearly and easily better than George Blanda.

I don't think I would have him in the top 50 and maybe not top 100 QBs of all time.

The fact that he made the HOF as a kicker doesn't really factor in to what kind of QB he was.

Exquisite Defenestration!! :rocker:

 

[Joker]

I saw George Blanda play. Saw the actual games in the early 60's. Goerge Blanda was a winner. George Blanda was the last of the great front-on kickers.Blanda played QB for the Bears in the 50's and then quit when Halas only used him for kicking duties.

perhaps a WIKI link would go a long way to explaining WHY he is a Hall of Fame QB/kicker.

George Blanda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

George Blanda was a winner in the truest sense of the word. 48 years old and still playing in the NFL. Making arguments about this great man, this great player, disparaging him and his accomplishments in hindsight is truly egomaniacal message board garbage at it's most ridiculous. The 41 year old George Blanda could walk on the field today and start for 20 teams in the present day NFL. Go ahead, kick dirt on me too to win your idiotic internet "knower" award. Why can't fans just respect the great men who have forged this great league?

 

[Off The Grid]

I saw George Blanda play. Saw the actual games in the early 60's. Goerge Blanda was a winner. George Blanda was the last of the great front-on kickers.Blanda played QB for the Bears in the 50's and then quit when Halas only used him for kicking duties.

perhaps a WIKI link would go a long way to explaining WHY he is a Hall of Fame QB/kicker.

George Blanda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

George Blanda was a winner in the truest sense of the word. 48 years old and still playing in the NFL. Making arguments about this great man, this great player, disparaging him and his accomplishments in hindsight is truly egomaniacal message board garbage at it's most ridiculous. The 41 year old George Blanda could walk on the field today and start for 20 teams in the present day NFL. Go ahead, kick dirt on me too to win your idiotic internet "knower" award. Why can't fans just respect the great men who have forged this great league?

Simmer Down, Francis.

Nobody's disparaging Blanda ~ not me, anyway.

My only point is that 74, there, did some sloppy, shoddy research ~ no actual research at all, it seems, in fact ~ and as a result of his laziness, posted FalseHoods.

Anybody can make a mistake. I was merely correcting his, out'f Respect for you and all who frequent these fine Boards, lest you mistakenly believe 74's FalseHoods to be truthful.

And rather'n simply admit his lazy mistake, 74's now descended to a pathetic attempt at making Blanda out to be some kind of Legend!!

It's got very little to do with Blanda, who I ~ and AJ, I believe ~ would emphatically agree was one Hell of a FootBall Player.

 

[Joker]

you were not in my mind when I wrote that, Grid...I apologize for giving offense where none was intended. I read your posts and concur 100%.

 

[Off The Grid]

you were not in my mind when I wrote that, Grid...I apologize for giving offense where none was intended. I read your posts and concur 100%.

Thanks, Bro. And I, yours. Wasn't offended, and I assume and hope that I didn't offend you!!