Manning’s 51st touchdown pass will add another flawed record to the books…

[borg]

if you want to critique him; add up how many 1 and goal from inside the 5 TDs he has compared to how many running TDs from same yardage Denver has. He is a glory-slut who audibles out of running plays (if his OC even has the guts to call one and piss off the almighty Pay-me).

I don't understand the logic of faulting a guy for audibles that result in passing TDs. The goal is to score points. Any QB that correctly alters a play that results in 6 points is to be commended...not ridiculed.
This board has no issue when Brady feeds the Gronk from inside the 5...setting TE TD records. Should the Pats have been running it instead so certain sensitive fans don't get offended? Please.
Manning is mopping up the league in yds/game yet the worry is about the length of the last pass of each series? I give the guy more credit because he has led his team to the high number of first and goals.

 

[Brady6]

A TD pass is a TD pass. How many of Brady's TDs were jump balls into double coverage or triple coverage to a freak of nature (Moss). Should we discount those because to any other receiver, they would have been incomplete or intercepted?

BTW, I bet Brady would trade everyone of his records for another SB. As would Manning.

Another classic thread :bricks::bricks::bricks:

I just don't get this at all. If the dude throws 50+, you tip your hat.
The OP is suffering from excessive posting and needs to think a little more and post a little less.

It is not my fault that you’re not interested in the how and the why of sports and only interested in the outcome. That is why this is a classic thread, if you had any understanding, desire for understanding and appreciation for the actual game you would see value in my OP. There is more to sports than just the end result, Super Bowls are great but I tune into all 16 regular season games and the 2-3 playoff games leading up to it because I like to understand how exactly things came to fruition, you don’t care how Manning has reached his 41 touchdowns this season, I do and I shared it because I felt others may too. You don’t have to belittle the thread just because you’re simplistic in your approach to following the game and others may look at it more detail.

You can respond if you please but I am not continuing this discussion, I am just pointing out that you should not determine what is and is not a good thread, members of this board all have different interests and you should respect them. I said my piece EOS> Have a great night.

 

[Brady6]

For the record the title of the thread does not really represent what I was trying to convey, I don’t think the record will be flawed per say I just feel it will be less impressive than what Brady did in 2007 due to the degree of difficulty. I am unable to change the title otherwise I would change to something like “An interesting comparison of Brady’s 07’ vs. Manning’s 13’ touchdown record”.

 

[fumbrunner]

It is not my fault that you’re not interested in the how and the why of sports and only interested in the outcome. That is why this is a classic thread, if you had any understanding, desire for understanding and appreciation for the actual game you would see value in my OP. There is more to sports than just the end result, Super Bowls are great but I tune into all 16 regular season games and the 2-3 playoff games leading up to it because I like to understand how exactly things came to fruition, you don’t care how Manning has reached his 41 touchdowns this season, I do and I shared it because I felt others may too. You don’t have to belittle the thread just because you’re simplistic in your approach to following the game and others may look at it more detail.

You can respond if you please but I am not continuing this discussion, I am just pointing out that you should not determine what is and is not a good thread, members of this board all have different interests and you should respect them. I said my piece EOS> Have a great night.

Well, I guess my devotion to the team for the past 20 years means nothing since I prefer to see the team win the SB than dwell on the games leading up to it. Or better yet, dwell on a record that is completely irrelevant to the end result of the season. In the immortal words of Herm Edwards, "you play to win the game".

So, as another poster said, why try to belittle Manning's record when he gets it? A TD is a TD. There are no half measures. He will have the record. Good for him. I personally are looking more forward to his faceplant in the playoffs.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm sure Brady likes having the record. But he'd trade it in a second for another ring.

 

[fumbrunner]

For the record the title of the thread does not really represent what I was trying to convey, I don’t think the record will be flawed per say I just feel it will be less impressive than what Brady did in 2007 due to the degree of difficulty. I am unable to change the title otherwise I would change to something like “An interesting comparison of Brady’s 07’ vs. Manning’s 13’ touchdown record”.

That completely changes the context. Using the word "flawed" really coloured what you were trying to say. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Brady6]

Well, I guess my devotion to the team for the past 20 years means nothing since I prefer to see the team win the SB than dwell on the games leading up to it. Or better yet, dwell on a record that is completely irrelevant to the end result of the season. In the immortal words of Herm Edwards, "you play to win the game".

So, as another poster said, why try to belittle Manning's record when he gets it? A TD is a TD. There are no half measures. He will have the record. Good for him. I personally are looking more forward to his faceplant in the playoffs.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm sure Brady likes having the record. But he'd trade it in a second for another ring.

I'm not belittling anything I find it interesting that 66% of his touchdowns have been on a pass thrown 10 yards or under. As I said above my thread title was not the best and I admit that but for me I find the how and why of football to be intriguing.

 

[Brady6]

That completely changes the context. Using the word "flawed" really coloured what you were trying to say. Thanks for the clarification.

I know and I see what you mean in the other post. It's not flawed, that was a poor choice of words, it's just less impressive in my opinion. I was trying for a cover of the Herald title and took a poor approach, I own it. I can't fix it however so the criticism of my OP is merited. My apologies for being a **** before!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Flawed Record - why even if Manning breaks the touchdown record Brady’s 07’ will still top it…

I am not sure if anyone has looked at the splits this season for Peyton Manning but if you have you may have notice that he is not exactly slinging his way to the touchdown record. Manning has 6 touchdowns this season on a pass thrown behind the line of scrimmage and 21 touchdowns on a pass thrown 1-10 yards; do the math and you see that 27 of his touchdowns came on a pass thrown 10 yards and under. On the season Manning has 5 touchdowns and 5 interceptions on a pass thrown 21 yards or further down the field.

In 07’ Brady had just 1 touchdown on a pass thrown behind the line of scrimmage and 26 of his 50 touchdown passes occurred on a pass thrown more than 10 yards down the field, he threw 15 touchdowns and 5 interceptions on a pass thrown 20 yards or further down the field.

If you want to hear something really indicative of how flawed Manning’s touchdowns are this year Brady has 19 touchdowns passes this season, 11 of his touchdowns have occurred on a pass thrown more than 10 yards down the field; Peyton has 41 touchdowns this season (more than double Brady’s total) and 14 of his touchdowns have occurred on a pass thrown more than 10 yards down the field. For those who are mathematically challenged that means despite throwing 22 more touchdown passes then Brady this season Manning has only thrown 3 more than Brady on a pass thrown longer than 10 yards down the field. I would like everyone to read my last sentence, think about it for a minute and then read it again because it’s actually laughable.

I am a realist and I know Manning is going to break the record and truthfully I could care less, I did think it was worthwhile to point out exactly how much different their performances actually are. Just to reinforce how much the talent is doing to help Manning to this record, 24 of his touchdowns have been caught by D. Thomas, Decker, Welker or J. Thomas on a pass thrown behind the line of scrimmage to 10 yards.

I grant all your facts and stipulate to them. Thanks for doing the work. Yeah, Brady's still "got it" down field.

But, a Manning record this year for single season TD passes would be "flawed?" Sounds like sour grapes to me.

The point of the game on offense is to use "the talent" (not a dirty word) on the field to score points. The Broncos and Manning are doing just that. They loaded up on that "talent" because they had a guy who could execute this kind of game plan with it.

If it were so easy to generate 51 scores by scheming to use talented runners/receivers to score "flawed...touchdowns" on short or backfield passes, every team would do just that. The point is that P. Manning is an extraordinary talent who can do so, consistently. If he can do so 51 times over a full 16 week season he will be the well-deserving holder of the record. End of the story.

In your final paragraph, I think you meant to say that you "couldn't care less." But maybe that was a Freudian slip and you did mean it as you wrote it (it's a common mistake); it's pretty clear that you care a lot and have ample room indeed to "care less."

In 1961, George Blanda threw 36 TD passes to break Johnny Unitas' single season record and went on to lead his team to the NFL championship. That's the last time that a Quarterback who set this particular record also won the NFL title. 52 years ago.

Blanda's record stood for 21 years, until it was shattered by Dan Marino in 1984 (48 TD's); Marino never won a League Championship. Since then, Peyton (2004) and Brady (2007) have broken it again, but they, too, both failed to win the League Championship when they did so. I am confident that such will be the case again this year.

My point? It's an impressive record, no matter how it is set and people will always remember who held it and for how long. So, let's not denigrate how it is earned. History will weigh the record and its holders against Championships and make decisions about who was "better" or "greater."

Arguing as you do is as absurd as arguing that Manning's record in 2004 and Brady's in 2007 were flawed because of rules changes. They were not. However, personally, I do happen to believe that what Blanda and Unitas accomplished in a 12 game season when it was legal to mug receivers in the secondary and put hits on QB's that would be flagged and fined and even get players ejected or suspended today is at least as great as anything Brady, Manning and Marino have accomplished.

 

[Ring 6]

I cant see the OPs posts, but if I understand correctly, I do not agree that a record is flawed because you judge the quality of TD passes by how far they were thrown. They are still TDs. Not to mention it is a quantity record, not a quality record.
Personally, I think the record for most points scored by the team is a more important record.

 

[Off The Grid]

I've always believed that extremes such as these Records indicate an imbalanced and thus fatally flawed Offense...And I would suggest that the Historical Record supports this.

 

[Off The Grid]

1 ~ In 1961, George Blanda threw 36 TD passes to break Johnny Unitas' single season record

2 ~ ...and went on to lead his team to the NFL championship.

3 ~ That's the last time that a Quarterback who set this particular record also won the NFL title.

4 ~ 52 years ago.

Not to be rough, but that's wrong 4 Times, my friend.

1 ~ Blanda wasn't even in the NFL in 1961. Hence, he couldn't break Unitas's Record.

2 ~ As he wasn't in the NFL, he had little chance to lead his Team to the NFL Championship.

3 ~ Hence: He was not the last QB to break the Record and win the NFL Title, as you claim.

4 ~ Johny Unitas was. 54 Years ago. In 1959.

All of this, I covered, just a few Posts ago, on the previous Page:

***

1 ~ In 1962, Yel Tittle broke the NFL Record with 33 TouchDowns.
2 ~ In 1963, he broke it again with 36 TouchDowns.
3 ~ In 1984, Dan Marino broke it with 48.
4 ~ In 2004, Peyton Manning broke it with 49.
5 ~ In 2007, Tom Brady broke it with 50.

7 QuarterBacks have thrown more'n 42 TouchDowns in a Season.

None of these 12 historically prolific Seasons produced a Championship.

 

[PATS16N0]

A TD record and no championship will be another one of those hollow moral victories idiotic Denver fans love so much these days since they can't and won't get the actual victory that matters and stands the test of time.

 

[brdmaverick]

Flawed Record - why even if Manning breaks the touchdown record Brady’s 07’ will still top it…

If you want to hear something really indicative of how flawed Manning’s touchdowns are this year Brady has 19 touchdowns passes this season, 11 of his touchdowns have occurred on a pass thrown more than 10 yards down the field; Peyton has 41 touchdowns this season (more than double Brady’s total) and 14 of his touchdowns have occurred on a pass thrown more than 10 yards down the field. For those who are mathematically challenged that means despite throwing 22 more touchdown passes then Brady this season Manning has only thrown 3 more than Brady on a pass thrown longer than 10 yards down the field. I would like everyone to read my last sentence, think about it for a minute and then read it again because it’s actually laughable.
.

Look, I'm always looking for Brady is better than Manning comparisons as well, but I think your point is a stretch. So Peyton has more TD passes over 10 yards than Brady this year but that is not good enough? So because that stat doesn't favor Brady now we're going to change it to "TD passes over 10 yards-to-Total TD passes" ratio comparison?

Should Manning audible to a run when inside the five yard line so that this ratio should come up?


Just like we always say a win is a win, a TD is a TD whether it's a 1 yard toss or 50 yard bomb. The point of the game is for the field general to guide his team down the field. When a TD is scored they are successful regardless of distance travelled.

 

[Observer]

That’s actually incorrect 6 of his touchdown passes didn’t even cross the line of scrimmage therefore it would be impossible for them to pass the goal line, the receiver took the ball across the goal line.

When a ball is caught and taken across the goal line, it is called a touchdown pass. Doesn't matter how far it was thrown, it is still called a touchdown pass. The point of the game is to score touchdowns- backwards, forwards, sideways passes- it doesn't matter. The job of the QB is to get that ball past the goal line, however is the most effective. Peyton is the most effective at it right now and might become the most effective in history. Congratulations to him and sorry you are mad about it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

He can have it, Brady will still have more Lombardis, more AFC Championships, more wins than any QB, way over 100 over .500, more play-off wins, win percentage, and play-off win percentage.



Christ, throw the dog a frikking bone.....................


Great as they were nobody really talks about Fouts and Marino, individual records are nice, but the greatest QB's are defined by team achievments.

 

[Fencer]

Another QB is being criticized in comparison to Brady because of how much he dinks and dunks?? Huh??

Oh, never mind. The record is so unimportant that nuances don't matter, unless there were blatant cheating or consistent referee error or something like that ...

 

[Huckleberry1]

Another QB is being criticized in comparison to Brady because of how much he dinks and dunks?? Huh??

Oh, never mind. The record is so unimportant that nuances don't matter, unless there were blatant cheating or consistent referee error or something like that ...

The only two records that matter to me are 5 Lombardis and more wins than any QB in history. Both of which would be unbelievably difficult to ever top. It's going to be close on both counts imo. I do think he will get 2 more shots at the SB, and I really believe he will be the winningest QB os all time.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Not to be rough, but that's wrong 4 Times, my friend.

1 ~ Blanda wasn't even in the NFL in 1961. Hence, he couldn't break Unitas's Record.

2 ~ As he wasn't in the NFL, he had little chance to lead his Team to the NFL Championship.

3 ~ Hence: He was not the last QB to break the Record and win the NFL Title, as you claim.

4 ~ Johny Unitas was. 54 Years ago. In 1959.

All of this, I covered, just a few Posts ago, on the previous Page:

***

1 ~ In 1962, Yel Tittle broke the NFL Record with 33 TouchDowns.
2 ~ In 1963, he broke it again with 36 TouchDowns.
3 ~ In 1984, Dan Marino broke it with 48.
4 ~ In 2004, Peyton Manning broke it with 49.
5 ~ In 2007, Tom Brady broke it with 50.

7 QuarterBacks have thrown more'n 42 TouchDowns in a Season.

None of these 12 historically prolific Seasons produced a Championship.

According to the usually reliable Pro Football Reference.com, in 1961, George Blanda threw 36 TD passes (line #17 in the attached document), leading his team to the League Championship and breaking the record set by Johnny Unitas' in 1959 (#45 in the attached document). In 1963, Y.A. Tittle tied that record (#17 in the attached) but did not lead his team to the NFL title. That record stood until Marino's 48, about which we are in agreement.

You are correct that my original post should have read "League Championship" and not "NFL Championship" in that one paragraph. But, in case you're just arguing a technicality, Blanda is regarded as an NFL player and his record is commonly regarded as a League record as a result of the merger. Denigrating his 1961 record is the same as denigrating Peyton's for the reasons proposed in this thread. Blanda is among the top 5 QB's ever to play the game in my book and his records are very, very real, whichever League can claim him as its own at the time.

Here is the link to Blanda's career, showing that he played in the League until 1975 and also showing that he threw 36 TD passes in 1961, bolded in the text to indicate that it was a League record at the time: George Blanda NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

If my source is wrong, please provide me with a link that demonstrates it to be so. Here is the link to my data: NFL Single-Season Passing Touchdowns Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com.

If you prove (!) me wrong, I will write to my source and correct their error, which would have to comprise multiple and systematic errors across a very large data base, but is possible.

On a personal note, I work with data all the time and teach statistics at the Grad school level. I have learned that I can always be wrong, but that I need to be respectful of others when I think I have them on the facts. It's a lesson you would do well to learn.

 

[FortressX]

*

.... due to the degree of difficultly ....

Well let's have the NFL put some judges on the sidelines for that.

 

[everlong]

There's still hope. Sunday is supposed to be in the teens in Denver and Thursday night the winds are supposed to be like the Patriots game. Hopefully the Titans and Chargers look at what the Patriots did and learn from it and don't try what the Chiefs did twice.