Kiper gives Pats 2011 draft a C+ in review (merged)

[captain stone]

Re: Wow Kiper Misses the Point

Colts and Giants were interested in taking Solder. He was their 2nd highest rated OT behind Ty Smith. Look at Costanzo, he didn't have much of a high ceiling but he had a good floor. So far he doesn't look anything special. He's basically Matt Light. Good, 1-2 All Pro in his career, couple of pro bowls but that's about it.
Solder on the other hand, has a ceiling of Joe Thomas or even better. You will get constant All pro effort from him.

Compared to all the tackles taken in the 1st round-Smith, Solder, Costanzo, Camiri, Carpenter and that tackle the Packers took.

Out of those, Smith had the highest ceiling. Solder was next. Only Costanzo and Camiri had a big floor. Which means, at worst, they would be a decent OT at worst.
Looking at their body of works now, Solder would have gone first within the top 10 pick over T Smith. Costanzo looks ok but nothing special.

As for Reed, I'll pass. He is just a pure speed rusher. That's about it. No other moves with him. He isn't a good run defender. Can't set the edge. I'll pass.

As for Sheard. I agree but let's see what Dowling as to offer next season before we consider him an injury bust.

Fair enough.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Wow Kiper Misses the Point

After 6 picks, Bill had drafted only 1 defender: Glas-IR.
What's wrong with expecting him to grab another defender,
esp. when our obvious needs at Safety & Pass-Rusher are considered?

As captain hindsight, I know it's hard for you to acknowledge this, but Belichick made all of those picks without knowing that Sanders and Meriweather were both going to stink it up. He didn't realize how screwed he was at safety until Sanders showed up out of shape and Meriweather showed up twice as dumb as ever before. There wasn't much he could do at that point.

And for all your pass rusher complaints, the Pats were one of two teams to have two 10-sack guys this season, and no team had a third guy with as many sacks as Ninkovich. Belichick did the right thing by letting other teams reach for the vastly flawed Brooks Reed and the 4-3 LE only Jabaal Sheard, and he still managed to get a ton of production from his pass rushers.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Wow Kiper Misses the Point

WOW You couldn't be more wrong in this first comment. Solder has arguably been the best OLman taken in the draft. He's been more consistent than the kid from Dallas who was also good, but much more versatile. To think he was going to be around at 28 is just plain stupid.

He might've been avail. in the low 20s, and Bill had enough ammo to move up.


As for Jordan, who was one of my binkies, the Pats added TWENTY sacks at the position that Jordan played. What more would he have added. Is he THAT much more "athletic" than Anderson or Carter....if at all.

You can never have enough Pass-Rushers.


You could be right about Dowling's ability to stay healthy, but you couldn't be more wrong about his ability ON the field. IF he can stay healthy he will turn out to be a hugely successful pick

I liked Sheard, but again, how much more would he have added to what we got from Anderson and Carter. Reed is a one trick pony who will never be more than a situatiional pass rusher and was picked too high as it was. Bottom line, as it has been shown, Sheard was a legit target at 33, but the need, as it has been shown, was in the DB, and that's where we went.

Andre Carter isn't walking through the door, and there is nobody avail. who can approach his production. Sheard would've been a nice option to have here, and what's wrong with having more than 2 Pass-Rushers anyway?


That over drafted crap is meaningless in the real world. Was Mankins over drafted, was Volmer over drafted. BS. Ridley has been the 2nd best rookie RB in the league this year. AND BOTH those guys filled in a huge need at RB

I understand this pick better. Now don't hate it, but I still don't LIKE it, since we won't see the value for another 3 years

Now you are getting into the world of pure guess and smug 20-20 hindsight. Its always easy for every fan to criticize picks that don't work out down here. There are certainly enough of them.

I do not engage in 20/20 hindsight, smug or otherwise. I am stating how I felt on that very weekend. Hindsight is advocating the position that Bill should've drafted for example Clay Matthews, and I've never done that.


BB hit a home run on his first pick - His second showed well but gets an injury incomplete - ditto for the 3rd. His 4th has out played expectations and could be a HR. Mallet will back up Brady for the next 3 years and could be very good at it. Cannon could be another HR in the next year or two. He certainly outplayed expectations this year.

If you stop right there that's 6 picks that will likely play significant roles during their rookie contracts, and 4 will likely end up being starters. That's a pretty good draft regardless of how you look at it.

I look at a draft that does absolutely nothing whatsoever to help an already piss-poor defense, and I cannot call it pretty good, IMHO.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Wow Kiper Misses the Point

You're aware the Cameron Jordan has done virtually nothing for the Saints despite playing upwards of 320 snaps where he's rushed the passer?

I am, but that's how I felt at the time.

 

[Sfpat]

Re: Wow Kiper Misses the Point

I am, but that's how I felt at the time.

So is this an admission that nine months after the draft, BB actually did a pretty good job and the draft should be graded higher than a C-plus

 

[MaineMan]

Re: Wow Kiper Misses the Point

RBs = Dime a Dozen.

I hope you're kidding about this, because it's really laughable.

The past dozen drafts have each included an average of roughly two dozen RB's. Of those, maybe 1/3 made even a modest contribution and only about half of THOSE have had an impact beyond their first couple years.

WRT Ridley - only five guys out of the THIRTY RBs drafted in 2011 made greater contributions (and Kendall Hunter just barely more).

WRT Vereen - Leshoure and Ryan Williams were on IR before he was, and even in his limited work, Vereen contributed more than about 2/3 of all the RBs drafted.

 

[jsull87]

Re: Wow Kiper Misses the Point

What numbers game? If Bill wanted to keep a 3rd/blocking TE on the 53, he could've re-signed
Algae Crumpler, or any other TE on the street, or not placed Smith on waivers in the first place.

After 6 picks, Bill had drafted only 1 defender: Glas-IR.
What's wrong with expecting him to grab another defender,
esp. when our obvious needs at Safety & Pass-Rusher are considered?

Obvious need at safety? when the draft happened we had James Sanders, Pat Chung and Merriweather all under contract.

Way to re-write history for to suit your own opinion.

 

[Double TE]

Kiper gives NE a C+

New England Patriots

Post-draft grade: C+

Summary: After the draft, I called this a mixed bag because, although the Patriots acquired more picks and were able to get some decent value in at least one spot with Ryan Mallett, I also thought they might have been outsmarting themselves by not getting any useful defensive help outside of Ras-I Dowling. At the time, I wondered, "Where is the pass-rush help? Why not try to maximize this window of brilliance from Tom Brady and get better now?" Well, Dowling went into the draft with injury concerns, and those have continued. All in all, I see a draft in which I saw outside linebacker, wide receiver and defensive end as big needs and the Patriots got nothing to speak of in any of those spots. The pass rush hasn't been a disaster this season, but the Patriots really could have used some young talent there. And although Stevan Ridley came on, I'm not sure his presence on the team changed anything for 2011. After all, Danny Woodhead and BenJarvus Green-Ellis (both undrafted) were doing a decent job. In April, I gave the Patriots a C for needs and a B-minus for value because I can see value as they continued to stock picks. Nate Solder is a keeper, and Belichick's work to keep that offensive line in good shape has been outstanding, but I still wonder whether the Patriots could have done more on defense. Again, there's always future help to consider, but this is what we know now.

 

[Fball]

That's a fair grade at this point.

It takes at least 3 years to evaluate a draft, though.

 

[Double TE]

That's a fair grade at this point.

It takes at least 3 years to evaluate a draft, though.

Solder alone should get us to a B? But I wish they traded up a bit and took Watt with the 2nd of their 1st rounders.

 

[DaBruinz]

First - it's an idiotic grade especially since Solder, Ridley, and Cannon have done so much this season.

Secondly, this was already talked about in this thread..

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/882918-wow-kiper-misses-point.html

 

[IllegalContact]

First - it's an idiotic grade especially since Solder, Ridley, and Cannon have done so much this season.

Secondly, this was already talked about in this thread..

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/882918-wow-kiper-misses-point.html

Cannon did a lot this year? He's a good story, but he has not done that much.

Conspicuously absent is the production of 2 2nd round draft picks......one of the was no 33.

At this point, a c+ is spot on

 

[MP-Logick]

Cannon did a lot this year? He's a good story, but he has not done that much.

Conspicuously absent is the production of 2 2nd round draft picks......one of the was no 33.

At this point, a c+ is spot on

You can't evaluate a draft after one year.

Otherwise people would be slamming the Pats for wasting a pick on a fourth QB in the sixth round 11 years ago.

 

[Dobbo]

The one points i would make are:

Solder - Franchise left tackle. A+
Ras-I - Injured, but looked good when he played. B
Vereen - missed training camp, has high upside. C
Ridley - productive. B+
Mallett - sucess depends on what we gain by trade. B
Cannon - should become a solid starter. B+

 

[Sciz]

The worst part is that he gave the Saints either a better or equal grade. And that's the draft that consisted of Cameron Jordbust and Mark Ingbust, as I feel they would be called by a few fans if they were on the Patriots rather than the Saints.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Re: Wow Kiper Misses the Point

Outside of their 2nd round picks, it's hard to really critique any of Belichick's other picks. Given Vollmer's injuries and Light's age the O-line woulda been in serious trouble without Solder. Ridley and Mallett were good 3rd round picks, and Marcus Cannon was a great value in the 5th round who no one expected to be ready to contribute this year.

My criticism will come if Dowling is cut way too early without being shown enough patience the way Darius Butler was. Belichick can't keep using 1st and 2nd round picks on DBs every year and then cut them once they have a bad training camp or a string of bad games. He needs to be more patient with them.

 

[IllegalContact]

You can't evaluate a draft after one year.

Otherwise people would be slamming the Pats for wasting a pick on a fourth QB in the sixth round 11 years ago.

I don't bother with anything after the 3rd....someone else brought up cannon.

My point is more about the short term impact out of the earlier picks.

Grading would be an ongoing thing if it was anything more than an opinion.

In terms of my opinion on the grading, I can say that as good as it has been, my grade for the 2010 draft would have gone up measurably solely on the prospect of how spikes played. I think his time has come and if so, the 2010 draft goes from an A to an A+......the 2009 draft has had a poor ROI to date.

 

[rdf63]

The bottom line on the draft and Kipers Grades:

Solder - Great pick and will be a dominant tackle. Very important pick because of the injuries.
Dowling - injured and too early to tell.
Vereen - injured and too early to tell.
Ridley - shown some good running skills and potential. Will play more once learns to hold on to the ball better. Has power and speed which is better than Woodhead and BJGE.
Mallett - hasn't played but good pick with potential trade bait value.
Cannon - steal of the draft and working his way into being a future starter.

C+ if you include all of the players in the draft grade which is most likely Kiper's thinking.
B if you dont include the injured players (Dowling and Vereen) in the draft grade
The grade will probably be closer to a A-/B+ this time next year if Dowling and Vereen are healthy.