JOSH WILL COACH INDY

[farn]

I think that stating Andrew Luck is overrated is a hot take and I think most people would disagree with you, including me.

When healthy, Luck is one of the best QBs in the league. He has a great arm, is an accurate passer, and reads defenses well. He's as mobile as Aaron Rodgers and his scrambling has to be accounted for. He's solid and hard to take down. He's smart and demonstrates great leadership. (As an aside, his habit of complimenting defensive players who sack him is hilarious and probably disarming to them).

He probably throws more interceptions than he should but he is (was) still young and learning. Look at all the INTs Peyton threw when he was starting out. I'm sure McDaniels would help with that.

I don't know what you mean by "inability to get big wins when it counts." He's 3-3 in the playoffs. Two of those losses were against the Patriots; I don't fault anyone for not being able to beat the GOAT QB and Coach. The third one was when he was a rookie. If you think he comes up small under pressure then I encourage you to watch the KC comeback game, which was probably the second most impressive postseason comeback of the last decade.

He was absolutely surrounded by subpar talent by the Colts, who have botched this whole thing. They traded a first round pick for Trent Richardson; 'nuff said. They drafted way too many skill position players instead of O-linemen to protect their franchise player. Their roster management is universally reviled. The fell ass backwards into Luck and basically ruined him. This whole medical issue with him is incredibly f'd up; there's way more going on than they've let on.

Now I'm mad because you made me write five paragraphs defending the Colts QB. I have to go take a shower.

3-3 check out the playoff wins. If you are happy with his progress, so be it. If I was a Colts fan (gross), I'd be underwhelmed.

 

[Ring 6]

3-3 check out the playoff wins. If you are happy with his progress, so be it. If I was a Colts fan (gross), I'd be underwhelmed.

Assuming he is healthy name 3 QBs you would rather build your team around and why.

 

[farn]

Assuming he is healthy name 3 QBs you would rather build your team around and why.

Wilson, though less prototypical, has shown in huge situations that he is able to win and be the reason for the success. His D has been very productive, but he has shown that he can make key, clutch plays under pressure. 20-11 TD/INT in playoffs.

Drew Brees. Again, despite his age, he seems to be rolling. Despite leaning on his D more during this season, in the playoffs he came up huge to lead his team to one win and (if not for foolishness) another last weekend. He is accurate and a good decision maker. He is a SB champion and doesn't seem to be slowing down.

TFB. No explanation required. I can easily see Brady having more productive years ahead (compared to Luck) despite his age.

Your question is somewhat flawed in the sense that "there doesn't need to be many better candidates for someone to be poor" as I think the quality of Qbs in the league is down. That COULD change if players such as Goff, Wentz, etc prove themselves.

Honestly, I'm surprised at how many on here value Luck so much...

 

[1960Pats]

Wilson, though less prototypical, has shown in huge situations that he is able to win and be the reason for the success. His D has been very productive, but he has shown that he can make key, clutch plays under pressure. 20-11 TD/INT in playoffs.

Drew Brees. Again, despite his age, he seems to be rolling. Despite leaning on his D more during this season, in the playoffs he came up huge to lead his team to one win and (if not for foolishness) another last weekend. He is accurate and a good decision maker. He is a SB champion and doesn't seem to be slowing down.

TFB. No explanation required. I can easily see Brady having more productive years ahead (compared to Luck) despite his age.

Your question is somewhat flawed in the sense that "there doesn't need to be many better candidates for someone to be poor" as I think the quality of Qbs in the league is down. That COULD change if players such as Goff, Wentz, etc prove themselves.

Honestly, I'm surprised at how many on here value Luck so much...

I'm also surprised by how many folks think the guy is a stud. They get to use his injury as an excuse, but I'm going by what my eyes saw when he was healthy. He didn't seem to read defenses very well and sailed many of his passes.

He took over a team that intentionally sucked for a season by not having a QB. Then when the top pick was assured they won a couple of games. It was called Suck for Luck. Now it's Suck is Luck.

His old man is also a friend of Archie Manning and it's a good possibility that the whole thing was a set up by the NYFL and both families.

If/when Josh goes to that team he will be the head Indiot.

 

[Ring 6]

Wilson, though less prototypical, has shown in huge situations that he is able to win and be the reason for the success. His D has been very productive, but he has shown that he can make key, clutch plays under pressure. 20-11 TD/INT in playoffs.

Drew Brees. Again, despite his age, he seems to be rolling. Despite leaning on his D more during this season, in the playoffs he came up huge to lead his team to one win and (if not for foolishness) another last weekend. He is accurate and a good decision maker. He is a SB champion and doesn't seem to be slowing down.

TFB. No explanation required. I can easily see Brady having more productive years ahead (compared to Luck) despite his age.

Your question is somewhat flawed in the sense that "there doesn't need to be many better candidates for someone to be poor" as I think the quality of Qbs in the league is down. That COULD change if players such as Goff, Wentz, etc prove themselves.

Honestly, I'm surprised at how many on here value Luck so much...

Wilson is debatable. What would Luck have done with that defense?

But the fact that you have to use 40 and 38 year old QBs to find 3 you would rather build a team around pretty much settles this.

And no, if you can’t find many that are better you can’t call a guy poor. I think you just have something against he guy and aren’t being rational.

 

[maineman209]

2012: Colts went 11-5/one& done, with a mediocre OL, mediocre ground game, and mediocre defense.

2013: Went 11-5 and won a playoff game (v. KCY) with a mediocre OL, a mediocre ground game and a defense that got better against the pass and worse against the run.

2014: Went 11-5 and won TWO playoff games (v. CIN & DEN) with a mediocre OL, a somewhat improved ground game and a defense that was lightly worse against the pass and back to merely mediocre against the run.

2015: Luck missed the first two games of the season with an injured throwing shoulder (thought to be the origin of his current issue) and the last six with a lacerated kidney/abdominal tear. The team went 8-8, largely due to the efforts of Hasselbeck, in spite of the team still featuring a mediocre OL, a sucky ground game and an all-around sucky defense.

2016: Luck had maybe the best season of his career, in spite of having the same sucky OL, ground game and defense.

After the season, Luck opted to have shoulder surgery from which he apparently hadn't yet recovered by the end of 2017.

I don't really know whether or not Luck is (or ever was) an "elite" QB or merely a Dalton-level guy since, thanks to Grigson, pretty much every other part of the Colts team has sucked during his entire tenure there. Even if Luck is healthy, McD will be taking on a huge re-building task for the rest of the roster. I can't imagine the Colts even sniffing the playoffs until 2019.

 

[Simpelton]

3-3 check out the playoff wins. If you are happy with his progress, so be it. If I was a Colts fan (gross), I'd be underwhelmed.

In the playoffs, 3-3 isn't too terrible you know. Going .500 against the top half of the league is moderately respectable

We're pretty spoiled to have a team that can abuse playoff caliber teams. Most franchises would take a .500 record against the cream of the NFL quite happily. I can certainly think of times in our own history where that would have represented a significant upgrade.

 

[Simpelton]

Assuming he is healthy name 3 QBs you would rather build your team around and why.

Mmm. Gonna say, Marcis Mariota, Russel Wilson, Jimmy Garoppolo. All nearly as talented, have gotten more out of the talent around them than Luck has, and they don't have his injury history.

There's more to building a great franchise than having the best possible quarterback. Brady wasn't considered the best in the business until pretty late in his career. The really big guys are usually so expensive that they limit a franchise's ability to build a full team. The amazing thing about Brady is that he wants to win so badly that he'll take pay cuts in order to put the best team around himself he can.

You can have the best quarterback in the world and not get anywhere if he can't make the team around him better, or if some flaw in team construction holds the franchise back like it did between 04 and 14 for us.

I really like what Mariota can do to a defense if you put the right coach and offensive coordinator behind him, he's got a great suite of abilities, and I think he'll evolve as a passer as his legs slow down.

Russel Wilson's on the list because he's actually done it, seems healthy, and is still young enough to have several good seasons ahead of him.

I don't think I need to explain Jimmy G. The 49ers are going to be very happy they got that guy.

 

[Ring 6]

Mmm. Gonna say, Marcis Mariota, Russel Wilson, Jimmy Garoppolo. All nearly as talented, have gotten more out of the talent around them than Luck has, and they don't have his injury history.

You’re joking right?
Why not say Jacoby Brissett?

Mariota has done nothing to suggest he can be a good QBs. Jimmy g has played 7 games.
The question was injury aside, because we are talking about talents and ability.

There's more to building a great franchise than having the best possible quarterback.

Not in answering the question what qb would you want to build around.

Brady wasn't considered the best in the business until pretty late in his career.

You not realizing it doesn’t make it not be true.

The really big guys are usually so expensive that they limit a franchise's ability to build a full team. The amazing thing about Brady is that he wants to win so badly that he'll take pay cuts in order to put the best team around himself he can.

That has nothing to do with this topic. Luck is neither a better or worse choice based on this.

You can have the best quarterback in the world and not get anywhere if he can't make the team around him better, or if some flaw in team construction holds the franchise back like it did between 04 and 14 for us.

Ibid

I really like what Mariota can do to a defense if you put the right coach and offensive coordinator behind him, he's got a great suite of abilities, and I think he'll evolve as a passer as his legs slow down.

That’s just a good. He hasn’t done it yet and blaming it on coaching is lame.

Russel Wilson's on the list because he's actually done it, seems healthy, and is still young enough to have several good seasons ahead of him.

Luck vs Wilson is a good argument. Wilson has done it because of his defense. Luck had a defense that sucked. Hard to compare.

I don't think I need to explain Jimmy G. The 49ers are going to be very happy they got that guy.

No you don’t need to explain because you are guessing, hoping and don’t have close to enough experience to back it up.

 

[farn]

Winning championships is all that matters. The « spoiled » argument is one I understand, but do not accept.

All fans should want to have the team they follow win a championship. It should be the only goal.

I don’t think Luck is going to win a championship. I don’t think Luck wins one even with improved teammates and coaching.

I have nothing against him - I just don’t consider him nearly as good as most (it seems) on this board.

 

[grux]

I am great full for everything Josh has done for our organization but it is to bad he is going to the Dolts. Does anyone think that Josh gets the Mangini treatment from BB?

 

[reflexblue]

Why would he want to work for a drug addled douch bag like ersay, and on top of that is the fact that indy started the whole deflatgate bullsht. josh could do better than the dolts.

 

[Deus Irae]

Winning championships is all that matters.

Nonsense

All fans should want to have the team they follow win a championship. It should be the only goal.

More nonsense

I have nothing against him

Obviously not true

 

[farn]

Nonsense



More nonsense



Obviously not true

You don’t think winning championships is all there is ? I have no idea why you’d be satisfied with less. There is first place and then F all.

Of course, most years, “your team” won’t win. But that should be the driving force at all times : to be a champion. Everything else is secondary. A distant second.

 

[Ring 6]

Winning championships is all that matters. The « spoiled » argument is one I understand, but do not accept.

All fans should want to have the team they follow win a championship. It should be the only goal.

I don’t think Luck is going to win a championship. I don’t think Luck wins one even with improved teammates and coaching.

I have nothing against him - I just don’t consider him nearly as good as most (it seems) on this board.

He already took a weak team to a conference championship.

There are currently 7 active QBs who ha e win SBs.
Brady
Roethlisberger
Brees
Flacco
Eli
Rodgers
Wilson

4 of them have only won once.
Lucks first 3 years when he was healthy would put him above at least half of the QBs on this list and arguably he did it with inferior coaching and supporting casts to all of them.

Just not seeing what there is about luck that you are knocking him for.

 

[Ring 6]

I am great full for everything Josh has done for our organization but it is to bad he is going to the Dolts. Does anyone think that Josh gets the Mangini treatment from BB?

Why on earth would he?

 

[Deus Irae]

You don’t think winning championships is all there is ? I have no idea why you’d be satisfied with less. There is first place and then F all.

Of course, most years, “your team” won’t win. But that should be the driving force at all times : to be a champion. Everything else is secondary. A distant second.

I'd say that you're making no sense, but that's obvious, so I'll just show an easy example.

The Cleveland Browns would be fools to take a "Championship or Bust!" approach, and their fans would be fools to demand that.

When you have a championship as your only goal, you will make moves that are harmful to the long-term success of your franchise. For Cleveland to do that would be beyond asinine, as the only way they are winning the Lombard in 2018 is if every other team in the league folds.

You're a better poster than this, so snap out of it.

 

[Ring 6]

Winning championships is all that matters. The « spoiled » argument is one I understand, but do not accept.

All fans should want to have the team they follow win a championship. It should be the only goal.

I don’t think Luck is going to win a championship. I don’t think Luck wins one even with improved teammates and coaching.

I have nothing against him - I just don’t consider him nearly as good as most (it seems) on this board.

Winning championships is what matters most. Playing good football and getting into position to win championships is important too.
If the Steelers has beaten GB is Rodgers career a failure?
If Indy had beaten the saints does Brees suck?
Is flacco a great QBs because he had a good playoff run? Would kaepernick be a great win if the last play went the other way?

Do you think Indy feels winning one in 2006 is all that matters and the next 11 years are fine?

 

[farn]

Winning championships is what matters most. Playing good football and getting into position to win championships is important too.
If the Steelers has beaten GB is Rodgers career a failure?
If Indy had beaten the saints does Brees suck?
Is flacco a great QBs because he had a good playoff run? Would kaepernick be a great win if the last play went the other way?

Do you think Indy feels winning one in 2006 is all that matters and the next 11 years are fine?

Valid argument. I’d rather have the two Marlins championships & garbage than years of Rangers success and no titles.

 

[farn]

I'd say that you're making no sense, but that's obvious, so I'll just show an easy example.

The Cleveland Browns would be fools to take a "Championship or Bust!" approach, and their fans would be fools to demand that.

When you have a championship as your only goal, you will make moves that are harmful to the long-term success of your franchise. For Cleveland to do that would be beyond asinine, as the only way they are winning the Lombard in 2018 is if every other team in the league folds.

You're a better poster than this, so snap out of it.

Cleveland, if they improved and fans felt they were driving towards success, should be happier.

I’d be very frustrated as a Cincy fan, however, because while they have had some success, I’d argue they are not driving towards success -not trying to win a title.

We aren’T going to agree I’m afraid.