Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[BSR]

I've been following this story for the past few days and have been going back and forth on my judgements regarding this "bullying" debate. Part of me really feels for Martin having been bullied myself when I was young. But the other part of me wonders how something like this can happen between two seeming adults. With the few examples "bullying" that have been released I wonder if Martin's reaction of storming off, hiring lawyers and airing the dirty laundry to the media is the appropriate level of reaction. To me, given the bits and pieces that I've heard, it seems a bit over the top.

It seems with little doubt that Incognito is a real jerk and wouldn't be someone that I'd like or want to be around. I think its safe to say that we've all come across someone like this idiot over the course of our lives. However, I'd like to think that years of having encounters with a holes like this guy has taught me how to deal with them as well.

I think the way Martin has reacted to this situation isn't an indication of his softness but rather his immaturity or naivete. Given his background I'd guess that he probably grew up a bit sheltered from the harsher side of life. Today's suburban lifestyle certain does tend to be much more overprotected then it used to be. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that (I know I do the same thing with my children) but that doesn't necessarily prepare a kid for the environment and personalities that he would interact with in an NFL locker room. Conversely, those that did grow up in a rough environment also don't understand where Martin is coming from either. They can't even begin to understand the guys reaction and no doubt would seem him as soft.

To Martin the reaction probably seems normal. He was probably always taught that when someone is mean or threatening that you go to authority. To his fellow teammates they most can't understand why he didn't handle it himself like they were probably taught to do.

In the end, I just think its an overblown mess.

 

[shmessy]

Kind of silly to blame the record of teams on their LG.
By the way, the Rams were 6-10 (and 33-31 in the last 4) the year before drafting Incognito and 8-8 the year he got there so implying a great team imploded when he showed up is curious.
Also, since you chose to apply 'we thought they would be good this year' as your Dolphin standard they are 24-32 since acquiring him and were 25-39 in the 4 years before.
There are plenty of way to rip Incognito without playing fast and loose with facts.

Wrong.

He was drafted in 2005.

They were 8-8 the year before he was drafted.

They were 41-23 the 4 years in the years previous.

List of St. Louis Rams seasons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_Incognito

He was inactive his rookie season,but was a presence in the lockerroom and with the OL.

But fine, if you want to take out the 2005 season, that makes it only 8 consecutve losing team seasons with "Richie the Lockerroom Dynamic" holding court.

 

[shmessy]

I've been following this story for the past few days and have been going back and forth on my judgements regarding this "bullying" debate. Part of me really feels for Martin having been bullied myself when I was young. But the other part of me wonders how something like this can happen between two seeming adults. With the few examples "bullying" that have been released I wonder if Martin's reaction of storming off, hiring lawyers and airing the dirty laundry to the media is the appropriate level of reaction. To me, given the bits and pieces that I've heard, it seems a bit over the top.

It seems with little doubt that Incognito is a real jerk and wouldn't be someone that I'd like or want to be around. I think its safe to say that we've all come across someone like this idiot over the course of our lives. However, I'd like to think that years of having encounters with a holes like this guy has taught me how to deal with them as well.

I think the way Martin has reacted to this situation isn't an indication of his softness but rather his immaturity or naivete. Given his background I'd guess that he probably grew up a bit sheltered from the harsher side of life. Today's suburban lifestyle certain does tend to be much more overprotected then it used to be. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that (I know I do the same thing with my children) but that doesn't necessarily prepare a kid for the environment and personalities that he would interact with in an NFL locker room. Conversely, those that did grow up in a rough environment also don't understand where Martin is coming from either. They can't even begin to understand the guys reaction and no doubt would seem him as soft.

To Martin the reaction probably seems normal. He was probably always taught that when someone is mean or threatening that you go to authority. To his fellow teammates they most can't understand why he didn't handle it himself like they were probably taught to do.

In the end, I just think its an overblown mess.

As a Pats fan, I hope Incognito rejoins the Dolphins immediately.

 

[Gronkandez]

Outside of the fact that parties and golf courses have absolutely zero to do with the Dolphin's locker room.....what exactly is that suppose to mean?

All that does is provide something to help you believe what you already want to believe.

Your entire objective in this thread is to prove you are stuck on stupid....willingly.

Smarten up and examine the totality.

Well Said...

 

[Gronkandez]

I've been following this story for the past few days and have been going back and forth on my judgements regarding this "bullying" debate. Part of me really feels for Martin having been bullied myself when I was young. But the other part of me wonders how something like this can happen between two seeming adults. With the few examples "bullying" that have been released I wonder if Martin's reaction of storming off, hiring lawyers and airing the dirty laundry to the media is the appropriate level of reaction. To me, given the bits and pieces that I've heard, it seems a bit over the top.

It seems with little doubt that Incognito is a real jerk and wouldn't be someone that I'd like or want to be around. I think its safe to say that we've all come across someone like this idiot over the course of our lives. However, I'd like to think that years of having encounters with a holes like this guy has taught me how to deal with them as well.

I think the way Martin has reacted to this situation isn't an indication of his softness but rather his immaturity or naivete. Given his background I'd guess that he probably grew up a bit sheltered from the harsher side of life. Today's suburban lifestyle certain does tend to be much more overprotected then it used to be. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that (I know I do the same thing with my children) but that doesn't necessarily prepare a kid for the environment and personalities that he would interact with in an NFL locker room. Conversely, those that did grow up in a rough environment also don't understand where Martin is coming from either. They can't even begin to understand the guys reaction and no doubt would seem him as soft.

To Martin the reaction probably seems normal. He was probably always taught that when someone is mean or threatening that you go to authority. To his fellow teammates they most can't understand why he didn't handle it himself like they were probably taught to do.

In the end, I just think its an overblown mess.

Good points. I feel for the guy as well but at the same time wonder if he could have handled it a better way. Of course I don't know how he should have handled it. Even going to the coach or GM isn't a great option although at least they're within the organization. And if the rumor about Ireland telling him to punch RI is true, well..I guess Martin didn't have many options.

 

[Ring 6]

Wrong.

He was drafted in 2005.

They were 8-8 the year before he was drafted.

They were 41-23 the 4 years in the years previous.

List of St. Louis Rams seasons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_Incognito

He was inactive his rookie season,but was a presence in the lockerroom and with the OL.

But fine, if you want to take out the 2005 season, that makes it only 8 consecutve losing team seasons with "Richie the Lockerroom Dynamic" holding court.

2006 is considered his rookie season.
2006 St. Louis Rams Starters, Roster, & Players - Pro-Football-Reference.com

He was not a presence, as FROM THE SOURCE YOU LINKED:

Drafted by the St Louis Rams in the 3rd round of the 2005 draft (81st overall). As a rookie in 2005, he was on the reserved/unsigned list until Week 3, then placed on the non-football injury list for the remainder of the season.

I guess the demise of the greatest show on turf was because his name appeared on a reserve list

Again, there is much to discuss without embellishing the facts.

 

[Deus Irae]

Soft like Cam Cleeland?

You realize that an on-field fight is completely different than a guy getting suckered with a sock weapon, right?

Try staying within the bounds of rationality and common sense, or at least some level of actual sense. We've already had Shmessy and Upstater clowning themselves all over this thread. You don't need to join them.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

With all the different stories and scenarios that have surfaced with important details still missing, it's reasonable to conclude that as some initially posted we do not know really what happened to Martin and by whom. OK, we knew going in that RI was a meathead and not a nice person and nothing has disabused us of that a priori knowledge.

The rest of this thread is personal viewpoint essays on "if this is so my opinion is…" interspersed with sundry statements by players, coaches, agents.

The NFLPA will have an interesting task here as they represent all players. It's safe to speculate that they'll be looking for the angle to hang it all on management.

 

[groganbootleg]

Kind of silly to blame the record of teams on their LG.
By the way, the Rams were 6-10 (and 33-31 in the last 4) the year before drafting Incognito and 8-8 the year he got there so implying a great team imploded when he showed up is curious.
Also, since you chose to apply 'we thought they would be good this year' as your Dolphin standard they are 24-32 since acquiring him and were 25-39 in the 4 years before.
There are plenty of way to rip Incognito without playing fast and loose with facts.

So on the one hand you claim that the LG has little impact on the win/loss record and then show data that the win/loss record for RI's teams wasn't so bad. Which is it: RI has no impact on the record or his impact is a positive one?

 

[Ring 6]

Have any details come out about the lawyers claim of Martin being viciously assaulted by a teammate?

 

[Ring 6]

So on the one hand you claim that the LG has little impact on the win/loss record and then show data that the win/loss record for RI's teams wasn't so bad. Which is it: RI has no impact on the record or his impact is a positive one?

Seriously, is it possible to make a post on this board making 2 separate points without having to explain it?

1) It is stupid to conclude the teams record is heavily tied to the LG
2) The facts he used about the records of the team were incorrect also

Also, 'by the way' is a pretty good indication that what follows is a different topic.

 

[Tunescribe]

Former NFL Player on Bullying: I Was the Team 'Weirdo' on New York Jets | Bleacher Report

Good piece.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Sweet Jesus. I need to talk in short bullets for possible comprehension. Let's try this again before you suffer a stroke.

.........

.........head appears to be hurting from the gasket you blew in reacting to my post. ..........

***And before this becomes a declaration condoning violence against women, I formally disclaim any reading of my post that may be construed as encouraging acts of violence against women. The foregoing is only intended as describing lawful acts by consenting adults consistent with the law. No dolphins were harmed in the creation of this post.****

Wow! Even though I am not taking stances on who is right or wrong, I had to smile at this well crafted post and the disclaimer in the end. Great job bro!

This thread has helped keep me engaged in this bye-week.

 

[patchick]

As for what appears to be a sexual assault allegation, that was last year and nothing happened with it after a police investigation (no charges - and there were numerous witnesses apparently). This sounds like the beginnings of a civil complaint, in which a story is leaked at the least opportune time in order to force a settlement on a weak case.

That seems a curious interpretation of "she can’t talk about the incident because she had signed a confidentiality agreement."

Signed agreement, not pending lawsuit. Maybe I'm wrong, but I took that to mean she had been paid to keep quiet -- which could explain why "nothing happened" with the allegations.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

That seems a curious interpretation of "she can’t talk about the incident because she had signed a confidentiality agreement."

Signed agreement, not pending lawsuit. Maybe I'm wrong, but I took that to mean she had been paid to keep quiet -- which could explain why "nothing happened" with the allegations.

That has no effect on a criminal case.

 

[Zeus]

Alleged victim?s silence suggests Incognito reached settlement | ProFootballTalk

 

[Bella*chick]

Former NFL Player on Bullying: I Was the Team 'Weirdo' on New York Jets | Bleacher Report

Good piece.

Well, I'll say this....Martin may not have everyone's respect but he certainly has brought an interesting issue to the forefront and one which I admit I didn't give much thought to. Great read.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

..................

Agent denies telling ESPN reporter that Martin has issues with other Dolphins | ProFootballTalk

This senario changes quicker than a model on a run way.
Latest.............
Lawyer David Cornwell says Jonathan Martin endured harassment, taunting - ESPN

 

[upstater1]

Sweet Jesus. I need to talk in short bullets for possible comprehension. Let's try this again before you suffer a stroke.

When I said "quoted above," I referenced your prior post and the article you quoted therein. That was quote of that TE's impression of Incognito as a rookie. Read your post prior to the quoted post, in which you quote a portion of the article itself. That language, quoted from the article by you, was not a reference to the complaint by the woman, which I stated was "last year". Incognito is not himself a rookie, so react a little less and read/think a little more.

I won't explain the law, because your head appears to be hurting from the gasket you blew in reacting to my post. The investigation into the woman's complaint was last year and nothing happened. Why? Because the woman was victimized in front of a crowd and the police illegally squashed it out of love for Incognito? Or perhaps because the police found no probable cause to pursue criminal charges after a full investigation, as legally would have to be the case when presented with a complaint of sexual assault?

The hypothetical (using the conditional word 'if', as you appear to believe I offered some additional 'fact' of consensual sex not in the article) was of how that can happen, and frequently does in life, without a real problem criminally or civilly. If you wish to swallow parts of stories and partial facts (this 'volunteer' was hanging out with a drunken Incognito - was she working? Was she staying after hours and partying? What happened during the entirety of this encounter that day? How much if this large story is summarized in the few sentences offered and apparently accepted as gospel by you.} Try critical thinking (ie., questioning the stories given to you in short form) - it can be highly enlightening and makes you less susceptible to shock media stories based on less than complete accounts.

The reason consensual acts are not criminal or even actionable in tort is because both parties willingly participate. If that woman agreed to let Incognito stuff a live dolphin up her private regions, then it only becomes a matter of animal cruelty if he does so. It is not sexual assault or rape. You may find that act offensive to your sensibilities, but your sensitivity does not define the law. Shocking but true. Welcome to the wonderful world of consensual acts. There is no per se rule prohibiting contact between golf clubs and nether regions. Now take your thorazine and calm yourself.

***And before this becomes a declaration condoning violence against women, I formally disclaim any reading of my post that may be construed as encouraging acts of violence against women. The foregoing is only intended as describing lawful acts by consenting adults consistent with the law. No dolphins were harmed in the creation of this post.****

You and Andy can go on defending the sexual molester of a woman, but you left this key part out of it:

The woman, who is black, told several media outlets she has declined to talk because she had signed a confidentiality agreement.

She has a confidentiality agreement. Can you read? Do have any critical thinking abilities at all? Nice to see you're defending the dregs of society.

 

[upstater1]

You realize that an on-field fight is completely different than a guy getting suckered with a sock weapon, right?

Try staying within the bounds of rationality and common sense, or at least some level of actual sense. We've already had Shmessy and Upstater clowning themselves all over this thread. You don't need to join them.

And yet another guy who thinks molesting women is just fine.