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How the Patriots got where they are: College draft edition

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Deus Irae, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Draft round of the recent SB winning QBs

    6th
    3rd
    6th
    1st
    6th
    3rd
    1st
    1st
    1st
    2nd

    So 6 of the last 10 SBs have been won by QBs taken outside of the first round.
     
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  2. 1960Pats

    1960Pats PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm in the camp that believes tanking games sends the wrong message to the team. The picks don't matter as much as the message.
     
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  3. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Makes sense including the biggest outlier in pro sports :rolleyes:. Also the Eagles wouldn't be in position to compete for a SB without Wentz who had an MVP-type year. And was also drafted Rd1.
     
  4. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes. That should be obvious. If you can't figure it out, you've got no business talking football.

    That's not true. It's not even close to true. Your argument on this isn't even at a child's level. Here, let me play. I'll take the guy who's probably the best left tackle of this century, Walter Jones.

    Played from 1997-2008. Go look at his team's records before, during and after, and his playoff success. I'd put it all in the post, but the maintenance time seems to have 86'd it.





    I've already shown why that claim is nonsense.
     
  5. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But the picks do matter as much as the message. The picks just have to be worth it.

    I'm not a big fan of tanking, in general, because it's not a sure thing. But there are times when it would be worth it.
     
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  6. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I cited to 10 years, which is a common thing. Is Wilson just a great outlier? Is Brees just another one of those great outliers? And Wentz wasn't the QB, Foles was. Was Foles a first round pick?
     
  7. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think it's a BB vs. TB12 thing. We are Patriots fans. Most of us were fans before TB12 (or BB) and will be afterwards. We want what best for the TEAM.
     
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  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You're not a draft expert. You're some random guy on a message board. And only a fool would pass on a player he thought would be a great running back because they were picking in the bottom of round 1 and it would be "wrong" to take a RB before pick 33.

    But, since you cited to "NFL teams", I'm sure you know more than, say, the Patriots, who've drafted 2 RBs in the first round during Brady's tenure.
     
  9. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well someone smarter than you is doing actual work to look at which draft pundits, experts etc are legit or not. Without looking into it and doing any research you're just "blah, blah, blah" like you normally do. So how actually would you know?

    This all started with RB's drafted round one and you saying this ...
    "The issue is bad teams without QBs drafting RBs in the first round"

    It doesn't matter if you're a good/bad team.You can find that production later. Ask the 49ers, Titans, Chiefs, Seahawks, Packers. You brought up NEP. How did that work out for us drafting RBs in the first when we've won with LGB, A Smith, BJGE and made others look very good at times (Ridley, Gray).

    I also gave you multiple examples of good/great teams that drafted RB's early and it didn't move the needle a bit (Sony, Gordon, Matthews, Ingram) all could have been easily replaced (Chubb, Kamara etc) from players taken later.

    Arguing RBs RD1 isn't a smart move in 2020 boomer.
     
  10. FCB02062

    FCB02062 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    And those "spectacular" special teams did what in the playoffs?
     
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  11. Kasmir

    Kasmir Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Disagree. There are a number of folks here who've declared themselves as Brady fans, saying they'll stop following the team after he retires or they'll switch allegiance to any team he goes to. Not everyone feels that way of course, but many do.

    And it's a legitimate debate about who is more responsible for the team's success over the last 20 years, BB or TB12. And in general the folks who say BB sucks as a GM are generally the same ones who attribute the success of the team to Brady.
     
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  12. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That you, of all people, would post this in a thread you started to **** on the Patriots' drafting...
     
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  13. Kasmir

    Kasmir Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Where did I say the special teams were "spectacular"? The Punting unit was excellent. The coaching was good enough to earn a promotion for Joe Judge.

    Does absolutely everything about the Patriots have to be awful for you to feel good?
     
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  14. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    Running backs can be found in later rounds. OL can be found in later rounds. S can be found in later rounds. Any position can be found in later rounds.
    Like every other position the most likely way to find a dominant game changing player at rb is drafting them early.
     
  15. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So you answered my post when I asked you about Gurley or Barkley with the 32nd pick, citing Brady and Manning as outliers. Isn’t it fair to say “a first round running back is generally a very bad investment for a multitude of reasons; however, the scenario can exist if the RB is exceptional enough and drops far enough in the first round” ?

    Theoretically a kicker who can accurately make a 75-yard field goal could be a first round pick.

    I just think having axioms like that is not a good approach to many things in life.
     
  16. 203Pat

    203Pat In the Starting Line-Up

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    Look at a few of the recent drafts and you will see mid to late round RB's who perform well when the starter goes down.

    2018
    Chase Edmonds
    Boston Scott
    Bo Scarborough
    Justin Jackson

    2017
    Marlon Mack
    Jamaal Williams
    Chris Carson

    RB is the most plug and play position and it needs to be with how often RBs get injured.
     
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  17. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In all seriousness if a Caff, Barkley fell into our laps I'd seriously think about it but at the same time things would have to line up.
    Is Lamar Jackson on the board as well? How is are RB Corp? I wouldn't auto take a big name to disrupt a good thing we have going on the team.

    I'm not dancing these are things I'd have to weigh.

    Would you want to be paying Gurleys contact right now? Zeke? Even Barkleys on that team?

    You take a guy that high you're already paying big money and invested for the future or else it looks kinda dumb taking a guy top 5-10 and letting him walk. Those picks are supposed to cornerstones. Not one and done.

    I look at RB as the cherry on top. Not the sundae. Of you have a good OL RB falls into place. Almost automatically when you have a QB/OL.

    In terms of value, importance it's down the scale for me. QB, OL/DL, CB, S, WR, LB, RB
     
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  18. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    See, I agree with basically everything you’re saying. In general, very bad idea to draft a RB very high. But most GMs do realize this as well, so that is why you very rarely see top 5 running backs and way fewer first round running backs nowadays. I just think this is not a written in stone rule...if the RB is good enough and sinks that much, it can be a good value. But I agree it is pretty rare that a RB exceeds his draft value when compared to a replacement level player.
     
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  19. TB_Helmet

    TB_Helmet In the Starting Line-Up Weekly Picks Winner

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    I think the main thing is if you’re bad enough that you’re in the top 5, you probably have bigger needs besides RB and should draft accordingly.

    Conversely if you’re drafting late in the first round, it means you have a better team and maybe a great RB would be a huge addition. While I generally am not a huge fan of this, I’m not opposed to it on principle. But you *really* have to hit that pick and that’s why drafting Sony probably wasn’t the best idea in retrospect. Few people would be complaining if we had gotten Nick Chubb’s production with that pick.
     
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  20. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone In the Starting Line-Up

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    And yet somehow with all this terrible, terrible drafting in a far, far, far worse position in the draft year after year after year the Patriots went to Super Bowl year after year after year and somehow stumbled accidentally into one of the best defenses of the past decade.

    But you know, the Super Bowls and the defense are not relevant to the conversation of just how bad a drafter Belichick is.
     
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