Final Brady Stats (and others) For 2017 Reg Season

[maineman209]

I might be hijacking the thread here a little bit but since it is literally a Brady stat and was posted by the PatsFans twitter account I hope its fine.



Did Cooks really go 7 out of 26 on third down targets this year ? Jesus, that is a crazy bad number. And I am pretty confident that the majority of those were not deep low percentage throws.

If you wanted an area to improve upon until next year.. there you have it..

 

[maineman209]

Combine those skills with what he already has shown, and now you can make an actual case for a 14-15m dollar a year deal. Until he adds more to his arsenal, I have a hard time seeing more than 11-12m.

By the time the Pats actually need to extend Cooks (maybe sometime during 2018 Camp), they'll have a lot more information.

Even so, by that time, with other WRs having received extensions or new FA contracts with other teams, a $14M APY contract might barely make the top-10, and $11M-$12M might even be outside the top-15.

 

[luuked]

View attachment 19052

I think we have been having the Cooks discussion now in one way or the other since after the Bucs game. The deep aspect of his game is perfectly fine and is exactly what we hoped for.

The problem remains that his shallow/intermediate routes are almost non-existent this year so far. The impact I was hoping to see from Cooks was something at least on the level of E. Sanders. But looking at how much better Sanders vertical and broad jump numbers were I guess Cooks just lacks the same explosiveness to be used like that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think we have been having the Cooks discussion now in one way or the other since after the Bucs game. The deep aspect of his game is perfectly fine and is exactly what we hoped for.

The problem remains that his shallow/intermediate routes are almost non-existent this year so far. The impact I was hoping to see from Cooks was something at least on the level of E. Sanders. But looking at how much better Sanders vertical and broad jump numbers were I guess Cooks just lacks the same explosiveness to be used like that.

Explosiveness? Maybe you mean twitchiness?

 

[maineman209]

I think we have been having the Cooks discussion now in one way or the other since after the Bucs game. The deep aspect of his game is perfectly fine and is exactly what we hoped for.

The problem remains that his shallow/intermediate routes are almost non-existent this year so far. The impact I was hoping to see from Cooks was something at least on the level of E. Sanders. But looking at how much better Sanders vertical and broad jump numbers were I guess Cooks just lacks the same explosiveness to be used like that.

Hard for me to say that a lack of natural explosiveness (based on a comparison of VJ/LJ numbers), or lack of natural agility (based on shuttle/3-cone) have all that much to do with it.

VJ/LJ ... ss/3c:
Amendola = 31.5/103 ... 4.25/6.81

C. Hollister = 36/120 ... x/7.02
Cooks = 36/120 ... 3.81/6.76
Mitchell = 36/129 ... 4.34/6.94

J. Hollister = 36.5/121 ... 4.34/7.12
Edelman = 36.5/123 ... 3.92/6.62 (8 years older than Cooks)
Hogan = 36.5/126 ... 4.15/6.75

Reedy = 37/120 ... 4.07/6.84
Dorsett = 37/122 ... 4.11/6.70
Britt = 37/124 ... 4.47/x

McCarron = 40.5/124 ... 4.16/6.59

The thing about both Cooks and Dorsett is that their long speed (4.33/40 for both) is probably the first thing - and perhaps almost the only thing - that most of their coaches exploited, especially given their relatively small stature. Neither may have had much experience developing the techniques to exploit their own short area quickness in heavy traffic - possibly not even as much as Edelman (as a running QB) or Hogan (with his lacrosse background).

Cooks did run more short area routes in NOL, though not at anywhere near Edelman (or even Amendola) frequency. In 2015 & 2016, he also was working alongside two other players who also got 100+ tgts, and who also ran some short-area routes.

With the Pats this season, through OTAs and Camp (when both Edelman and Mitchell were still a part of the 2017 plan), Cooks' introduction to the Pats system probably didn't emphasize short-area/mid-range routes very much. So, it's not really surprising to me that those routes haven't been a significant or successful part of his game this season, given the context.

The point being, obviously, that we really don't know yet what more he might be able to do next season. This year's "snapshot portrait" may not define him and his abilities very accurately.

 

[luuked]

Explosiveness? Maybe you mean twitchiness?

Is there somewhere a terminology guide for all those draftnik terms ? I thought explosiveness is what short area quickness is generally called ?

 

[luuked]

With the Pats this season, through OTAs and Camp (when both Edelman and Mitchell were still a part of the 2017 plan), Cooks' introduction to the Pats system probably didn't emphasize short-area/mid-range routes very much. So, it's not really surprising to me that those routes haven't been a significant or successful part of his game this season, given the context.

The point being, obviously, that we really don't know yet what more he might be able to do next season. This year's "snapshot portrait" may not define him and his abilities very accurately.

I understand that preseason/camp most probably didnt emphasize that a lot but if you look at those 3rd down stats then I think we see that they definitely tried to use him in the short/intermediate game. I think there must have been close to a dozen of screens they tried with him that almost all failed either because of a drop, a blocker screwing up or Cooks taking the wrong path right into a defender.

And I understand that with his frame you dont want him to play too much over the middle otherwise you risk injury. I still dont get why there are so few crossing routes designed for him. He would be the ideal receiver for them and it would add another dimension CBs would have to be mindful of when in man coverage.

Whatever.. I think I am done with overthinking the entire Cooks situation until next year. It is what it is..

 

[RobertWeathers]

Is there somewhere a terminology guide for all those draftnik terms ? I thought explosiveness is what short area quickness is generally called ?

Not sure. I think of explosiveness as a Julio Jones or a big play threat.

When I think of JE11 I don't think of explosiveness. Maybe he is?

I don't mean to nitpick. I know what you are trying to say.

 

[luuked]

I don't mean to nitpick. I know what you are trying to say.

Me neither. I totally see the potential for confusion here..

Hey @manxman2601 write a terminology guide I would ask @Off The Grid but I am not sure us Earthlings would understand it.

 

[sphen22]

This is but a small hiccup for the GOAT on his way to putting Kurt Warner further back in the record books. Reg MVP & super bowl MVP tyme.

Or honestly i'd be fine with Gronk grabbing the super bowl MVP as long as we tie the squeelers in rings.

 

[maineman209]

Is there somewhere a terminology guide for all those draftnik terms ? I thought explosiveness is what short area quickness is generally called ?

I tend to think of "explosiveness" being related to the first step or two from the snap, and acceleration in the open field. So, VJ, LJ and 10-yd split numbers are perhaps most relevant to that.

I also tend to think of "short-area quickness" being more related to crisp change of direction, stop-and-start. So, agility-test numbers - short shuttle and 3-cone - would be more relevant to that.

Either can be helpful in getting off the line against press man and maintaining rout-timing. "Explosiveness" and upper-body strength - with proper technique - can help defeat the "presser's" intent to disrupt timing through (legal) contact. Well-developed quickness can help the receiver avoid the presser altogether.

Edelman excels at both. Kenbrell Thompkins was pretty amazing at the latter, even though his testing numbers were much closer to Amendola's. Relative to the testing numbers for all of the Pats receivers, Jarvis Landry's numbers are really poor - and yet, he make sit work for him.

The point being that however much a player's testing numbers may indicate about his natural ability, it won't be of much use if he hasn't learned the basic techniques (footwork, etc.) to develop and optimize that ability.

 

[maineman209]

Not sure. I think of explosiveness as a Julio Jones or a big play threat.

When I think of JE11 I don't think of explosiveness. Maybe he is?

I don't mean to nitpick. I know what you are trying to say.

It seems to me that Edelman's otherworldly jump cuts have been a product of good (not great) explosiveness, plus elite agility, combined with very highly-refined technique.

FYI - Julio Jones (6026/220):
4.42/40, 1.53/10-yd ... 38.5 VJ/135 LJ ... 4.25 ss/6.65 3cone

 

[Deus Irae]

I might be hijacking the thread here a little bit but since it is literally a Brady stat and was posted by the PatsFans twitter account I hope its fine.



Did Cooks really go 7 out of 26 on third down targets this year ? Jesus, that is a crazy bad number. And I am pretty confident that the majority of those were not deep low percentage throws.

If you wanted an area to improve upon until next year.. there you have it..

It would be interesting to compare that to what Edelman did last year.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Me neither. I totally see the potential for confusion here..

Hey @manxman2601 write a terminology guide I would ask @Off The Grid but I am not sure us Earthlings would understand it.

Ask and you shall receive. Vocabulary guide: Fanatical Yankee's Deeply Deranged Vocabulary!!

Rubrics and metrics for receivers, per the estimable OTG:

This is how I break things down when I'm evaluating allWideOuts:

Separation: Getting Open. This encompasses Combat Skills & Fluidity to beat Press, Acceleration out'f the Blocks, Fluidity and Ricochet in navigating Traffic, Route Running Precision, the capacity to deceive Defenders, and Field Vision for Timing Seems and Open Zones. All other Aspects of a WideOut's Job Description are dwarfed by this one.

Catch Point Capacity: In Transit or Contested: Hands, WingSpan, Vertical Agility, Combat Skills, and Timing.

Yards After Catch are well and fine, but it seems to me that 90% of the Value of a Flex End and any WideOut is getting open and catching the Ball. Anyone who's read my Work extensively knows that I consider Blocking to be the Heart & Soul of FootBall, but that is a philosophical position, and I recognize that with most Philosophies, where it comes to Wide Receivers and Flex Ends...it's just Gravy. And so is Yards After Catch: Moving The Chains is What Wins.

Chunk Yardage: An highly overrated Aspect of the Game, I believe, so much so that in fact I didn't even include it in 2016. It is not a negligible Aspect of the Game, so I'm bringing it back, but getting open, catching the Ball, and Moving the Chains are far more crucial to a Team's Success, I believe, than making Splash Plays and getting on ESPN HighLights Reels. Power, Fluidity, Ricochet, Speed, Combat Skills, and Processing Speed/Field Vision all play into Chunk Yardage.

Blocking: It was a Mistake to leave this Aspect ~ my very favorite Aspect of FootBall ~ out'f 2016's Flex End Reports, and I'm very happy to correct that Mistake, evermore. Blocking of course comes down to Power, Agility, Frame, Combat Skills, Processing Speed, and Motor, and further breaks down into In Line Blocking and Open Field Blocking.

Broken down into SubCategories, it'd go something like this:

Separation

* Combat Skills
* Fluidity
* Acceleration
* Ricochet
* Routing
* Deception
* Field Vision

Catch Point Capacity
Catch Point Capacity
* Timing
* Combat Skills
* Vertical Agility
* Hands
* WingSpan

Chunk Yardage

* Power
* Fluidity
* Ricochet
* Speed
* Combat Skills
* Field Vision

Blocking

* Power
* Agility
* Frame
* Combat Skills
* Processing Speed
* Motor

 

[luuked]

It would be interesting to compare that to what Edelman did last year.

According to the same PatsFans DB:

J.Edelman 49 28 431 15.4 24 2

49 Targets, 28 receptions for 431 yards resulting in 24 first downs and 2 TDs.

 

[luuked]

Ask and you shall receive. Vocabulary guide: Fanatical Yankee's Deeply Deranged Vocabulary!!

Rubrics and metrics for receivers, per the estimable OTG:

This is how I break things down when I'm evaluating allWideOuts:

Separation: Getting Open. This encompasses Combat Skills & Fluidity to beat Press, Acceleration out'f the Blocks, Fluidity and Ricochet in navigating Traffic, Route Running Precision, the capacity to deceive Defenders, and Field Vision for Timing Seems and Open Zones. All other Aspects of a WideOut's Job Description are dwarfed by this one.

Catch Point Capacity: In Transit or Contested: Hands, WingSpan, Vertical Agility, Combat Skills, and Timing.

Yards After Catch are well and fine, but it seems to me that 90% of the Value of a Flex End and any WideOut is getting open and catching the Ball. Anyone who's read my Work extensively knows that I consider Blocking to be the Heart & Soul of FootBall, but that is a philosophical position, and I recognize that with most Philosophies, where it comes to Wide Receivers and Flex Ends...it's just Gravy. And so is Yards After Catch: Moving The Chains is What Wins.

Chunk Yardage: An highly overrated Aspect of the Game, I believe, so much so that in fact I didn't even include it in 2016. It is not a negligible Aspect of the Game, so I'm bringing it back, but getting open, catching the Ball, and Moving the Chains are far more crucial to a Team's Success, I believe, than making Splash Plays and getting on ESPN HighLights Reels. Power, Fluidity, Ricochet, Speed, Combat Skills, and Processing Speed/Field Vision all play into Chunk Yardage.

Blocking: It was a Mistake to leave this Aspect ~ my very favorite Aspect of FootBall ~ out'f 2016's Flex End Reports, and I'm very happy to correct that Mistake, evermore. Blocking of course comes down to Power, Agility, Frame, Combat Skills, Processing Speed, and Motor, and further breaks down into In Line Blocking and Open Field Blocking.

Broken down into SubCategories, it'd go something like this:

Separation

* Combat Skills
* Fluidity
* Acceleration
* Ricochet
* Routing
* Deception
* Field Vision

Catch Point Capacity
Catch Point Capacity
* Timing
* Combat Skills
* Vertical Agility
* Hands
* WingSpan

Chunk Yardage

* Power
* Fluidity
* Ricochet
* Speed
* Combat Skills
* Field Vision

Blocking

* Power
* Agility
* Frame
* Combat Skills
* Processing Speed
* Motor

Thanks, but that one I know about. I am just not sure we will find common ground with a lot people here using OTGs terminology

 

[Deus Irae]

According to the same PatsFans DB:

J.Edelman 49 28 431 15.4 24 2

49 Targets, 28 receptions for 431 yards resulting in 24 first downs and 2 TDs.

That speaks volumes, doesn't it?

 

[Deus Irae]

Just to follow up on that 3rd down data (and going on the assumption that it is accurate):

Last season:
A pass to Edelman led to a first down 49% of the time

This season:
A pass to Amendola led to a first down 50% of the time
A pass to Hogan led to a first down 40% of the time
A pass to Cooks led to a first down 27% of the time

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The stats show why it’s obviously that Gillislee is not playing terrible third down and goal line numbers

 

[Off The Grid]

Ask and you shall receive. Vocabulary guide: Fanatical Yankee's Deeply Deranged Vocabulary!!

Rubrics and metrics for receivers, per the estimable OTG:

This is how I break things down when I'm evaluating all WideOuts:

Separation: Getting Open. This encompasses Combat Skills & Fluidity to beat Press, Acceleration out'f the Blocks, Fluidity and Ricochet in navigating Traffic, Route Running Precision, the capacity to deceive Defenders, and Field Vision for Timing Seems and Open Zones. All other Aspects of a WideOut's Job Description are dwarfed by this one.

Catch Point Capacity: In Transit or Contested: Hands, WingSpan, Vertical Agility, Combat Skills, and Timing.

Yards After Catch are well and fine, but it seems to me that 90% of the Value of a Flex End and any WideOut is getting open and catching the Ball. Anyone who's read my Work extensively knows that I consider Blocking to be the Heart & Soul of FootBall, but that is a philosophical position, and I recognize that with most Philosophies, where it comes to Wide Receivers and Flex Ends...it's just Gravy. And so is Yards After Catch: Moving The Chains is What Wins.

Chunk Yardage: An highly overrated Aspect of the Game, I believe, so much so that in fact I didn't even include it in 2016. It is not a negligible Aspect of the Game, so I'm bringing it back, but getting open, catching the Ball, and Moving the Chains are far more crucial to a Team's Success, I believe, than making Splash Plays and getting on ESPN HighLights Reels. Power, Fluidity, Ricochet, Speed, Combat Skills, and Processing Speed/Field Vision all play into Chunk Yardage.

Blocking: It was a Mistake to leave this Aspect ~ my very favorite Aspect of FootBall ~ out'f 2016's Flex End Reports, and I'm very happy to correct that Mistake, evermore. Blocking of course comes down to Power, Agility, Frame, Combat Skills, Processing Speed, and Motor, and further breaks down into In Line Blocking and Open Field Blocking.

Broken down into SubCategories, it'd go something like this:

Separation

* Combat Skills
* Fluidity
* Acceleration
* Ricochet
* Routing
* Deception
* Field Vision

Catch Point Capacity

* Timing
* Combat Skills
* Vertical Agility
* Hands
* WingSpan

Chunk Yardage

* Power
* Fluidity
* Ricochet
* Speed
* Combat Skills
* Field Vision

Blocking

* Power
* Agility
* Frame
* Combat Skills
* Processing Speed
* Motor

Hah!! Thanks, Bro!!

Let me consolidate all those on my next post...