Final Brady Stats (and others) For 2017 Reg Season

[Off The Grid]

Explosiveness? Maybe you mean twitchiness?

Is there somewhere a terminology guide for all those draftnik terms ? I thought explosiveness is what short area quickness is generally called ?

Not sure. I think of explosiveness as a Julio Jones or a big play threat.

When I think of JE11 I don't think of explosiveness. Maybe he is?

I don't mean to nitpick. I know what you are trying to say.

Me neither. I totally see the potential for confusion here..

Hey @manxman2601 write a terminology guide I would ask @Off The Grid but I am not sure us Earthlings would understand it.

Ask and you shall receive. Vocabulary guide: Fanatical Yankee's Deeply Deranged Vocabulary!!

Rubrics and metrics for receivers, per the estimable OTG:

This is how I break things down when I'm evaluating all WideOuts:

Separation: Getting Open. This encompasses Combat Skills & Fluidity to beat Press, Acceleration out'f the Blocks, Fluidity and Ricochet in navigating Traffic, Route Running Precision, the capacity to deceive Defenders, and Field Vision for Timing Seems and Open Zones. All other Aspects of a WideOut's Job Description are dwarfed by this one.

Catch Point Capacity: In Transit or Contested: Hands, WingSpan, Vertical Agility, Combat Skills, and Timing.

Yards After Catch are well and fine, but it seems to me that 90% of the Value of a Flex End and any WideOut is getting open and catching the Ball. Anyone who's read my Work extensively knows that I consider Blocking to be the Heart & Soul of FootBall, but that is a philosophical position, and I recognize that with most Philosophies, where it comes to Wide Receivers and Flex Ends...it's just Gravy. And so is Yards After Catch: Moving The Chains is What Wins.

Chunk Yardage: An highly overrated Aspect of the Game, I believe, so much so that in fact I didn't even include it in 2016. It is not a negligible Aspect of the Game, so I'm bringing it back, but getting open, catching the Ball, and Moving the Chains are far more crucial to a Team's Success, I believe, than making Splash Plays and getting on ESPN HighLights Reels. Power, Fluidity, Ricochet, Speed, Combat Skills, and Processing Speed/Field Vision all play into Chunk Yardage.

Blocking: It was a Mistake to leave this Aspect ~ my very favorite Aspect of FootBall ~ out'f 2016's Flex End Reports, and I'm very happy to correct that Mistake, evermore. Blocking of course comes down to Power, Agility, Frame, Combat Skills, Processing Speed, and Motor, and further breaks down into In Line Blocking and Open Field Blocking.

Broken down into SubCategories, it'd go something like this:

Separation

* Combat Skills
* Fluidity
* Acceleration
* Ricochet
* Routing
* Deception
* Field Vision

Catch Point Capacity

* Timing
* Combat Skills
* Vertical Agility
* Hands
* WingSpan

Chunk Yardage

* Power
* Fluidity
* Ricochet
* Speed
* Combat Skills
* Field Vision

Blocking

* Power
* Agility
* Frame
* Combat Skills
* Processing Speed
* Motor

Thanks, but that one I know about. I am just not sure we will find common ground with a lot people here using OTGs terminology

Honored, Brother Reamer, and all!!

It's not a term I use, myself, as it's too vague for my taste and produces precisely the kind of conversational confusion that we're dealing with, here!!

My vague understanding ~ quite possibly wrong ~ is that when Earthlings speak of "explosiveness" as it pertains to WideOuts, it might be any combination of what I refer to as Acceleration, Ricochet, and Speed, with an emphasis on Speed.

Ricochet: Burst out'f Breaks
Acceleration: Short Speed or "Zero to Sixty" Speed, if you will.
Speed: Long Speed ~ 40 Time, basically.

Further confusion is added ~ no offense, Brother Luuked ~ by the almost universal practice of translating Vertical and Horizontal Jumps into "explosiveness."

But you're in good company, as as far as I know, I alone do not do so.

As my man Reamer will tell you: I don't place much value on Long Speed ~ on 40 Times, instead emphasizing Ricochet, Acceleration, and Fluidity.

Cooks, in my opinions, has gallons of those and of Speed. He ran a 4.33 40, though for some reason 4.50 40'd initially been reported when I scouted'm.

In other words: He has the Speed to burn Defenses downfield, but in my opinion has all the Acceleration, Fluidity, and Ricochet in the world to carve out Routes underneath if he's employed that way...and the Brains to do so.

 

[Off The Grid]

Hard for me to say that a lack of natural explosiveness (based on a comparison of VJ/LJ numbers), or lack of natural agility (based on shuttle/3-cone) have all that much to do with it.

VJ/LJ ... ss/3c:
Amendola = 31.5/103 ... 4.25/6.81

C. Hollister = 36/120 ... x/7.02
Cooks = 36/120 ... 3.81/6.76
Mitchell = 36/129 ... 4.34/6.94

J. Hollister = 36.5/121 ... 4.34/7.12
Edelman = 36.5/123 ... 3.92/6.62 (8 years older than Cooks)
Hogan = 36.5/126 ... 4.15/6.75

Reedy = 37/120 ... 4.07/6.84
Dorsett = 37/122 ... 4.11/6.70
Britt = 37/124 ... 4.47/x

McCarron = 40.5/124 ... 4.16/6.59

The thing about both Cooks and Dorsett is that their long speed (4.33/40 for both) is probably the first thing - and perhaps almost the only thing - that most of their coaches exploited, especially given their relatively small stature. Neither may have had much experience developing the techniques to exploit their own short area quickness in heavy traffic - possibly not even as much as Edelman (as a running QB) or Hogan (with his lacrosse background).

Cooks did run more short area routes in NOL, though not at anywhere near Edelman (or even Amendola) frequency. In 2015 & 2016, he also was working alongside two other players who also got 100+ tgts, and who also ran some short-area routes.

With the Pats this season, through OTAs and Camp (when both Edelman and Mitchell were still a part of the 2017 plan), Cooks' introduction to the Pats system probably didn't emphasize short-area/mid-range routes very much. So, it's not really surprising to me that those routes haven't been a significant or successful part of his game this season, given the context.

The point being, obviously, that we really don't know yet what more he might be able to do next season. This year's "snapshot portrait" may not define him and his abilities very accurately.

Absolutely brilliant Post, Brother Maine!!

 

[Joker]

jeez...get a room will ya?

 

[Deus Irae]

BTW, for those of you who look to Bedard for this stuff, he just stated that he thinks Brady has been fine, and that the problem has been mostly personnel.

Also, according to him, Brady only had 3 bad throws in the last game.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I think we have been having the Cooks discussion now in one way or the other since after the Bucs game. The deep aspect of his game is perfectly fine and is exactly what we hoped for.

The problem remains that his shallow/intermediate routes are almost non-existent this year so far. The impact I was hoping to see from Cooks was something at least on the level of E. Sanders. But looking at how much better Sanders vertical and broad jump numbers were I guess Cooks just lacks the same explosiveness to be used like that.

Explosiveness? Maybe you mean twitchiness?

Hard for me to say that a lack of natural explosiveness (based on a comparison of VJ/LJ numbers), or lack of natural agility (based on shuttle/3-cone) have all that much to do with it.

VJ/LJ ... ss/3c:
Amendola = 31.5/103 ... 4.25/6.81

C. Hollister = 36/120 ... x/7.02
Cooks = 36/120 ... 3.81/6.76
Mitchell = 36/129 ... 4.34/6.94

J. Hollister = 36.5/121 ... 4.34/7.12
Edelman = 36.5/123 ... 3.92/6.62 (8 years older than Cooks)
Hogan = 36.5/126 ... 4.15/6.75

Reedy = 37/120 ... 4.07/6.84
Dorsett = 37/122 ... 4.11/6.70
Britt = 37/124 ... 4.47/x

McCarron = 40.5/124 ... 4.16/6.59

The thing about both Cooks and Dorsett is that their long speed (4.33/40 for both) is probably the first thing - and perhaps almost the only thing - that most of their coaches exploited, especially given their relatively small stature. Neither may have had much experience developing the techniques to exploit their own short area quickness in heavy traffic - possibly not even as much as Edelman (as a running QB) or Hogan (with his lacrosse background).

Cooks did run more short area routes in NOL, though not at anywhere near Edelman (or even Amendola) frequency. In 2015 & 2016, he also was working alongside two other players who also got 100+ tgts, and who also ran some short-area routes.

With the Pats this season, through OTAs and Camp (when both Edelman and Mitchell were still a part of the 2017 plan), Cooks' introduction to the Pats system probably didn't emphasize short-area/mid-range routes very much. So, it's not really surprising to me that those routes haven't been a significant or successful part of his game this season, given the context.

The point being, obviously, that we really don't know yet what more he might be able to do next season. This year's "snapshot portrait" may not define him and his abilities very accurately.

Is there somewhere a terminology guide for all those draftnik terms ? I thought explosiveness is what short area quickness is generally called ?

Not sure. I think of explosiveness as a Julio Jones or a big play threat.

When I think of JE11 I don't think of explosiveness. Maybe he is?

I don't mean to nitpick. I know what you are trying to say.

I tend to think of "explosiveness" being related to the first step or two from the snap, and acceleration in the open field. So, VJ, LJ and 10-yd split numbers are perhaps most relevant to that.

I also tend to think of "short-area quickness" being more related to crisp change of direction, stop-and-start. So, agility-test numbers - short shuttle and 3-cone - would be more relevant to that.

Either can be helpful in getting off the line against press man and maintaining rout-timing. "Explosiveness" and upper-body strength - with proper technique - can help defeat the "presser's" intent to disrupt timing through (legal) contact. Well-developed quickness can help the receiver avoid the presser altogether.

Edelman excels at both. Kenbrell Thompkins was pretty amazing at the latter, even though his testing numbers were much closer to Amendola's. Relative to the testing numbers for all of the Pats receivers, Jarvis Landry's numbers are really poor - and yet, he make sit work for him.

The point being that however much a player's testing numbers may indicate about his natural ability, it won't be of much use if he hasn't learned the basic techniques (footwork, etc.) to develop and optimize that ability.

It seems to me that Edelman's otherworldly jump cuts have been a product of good (not great) explosiveness, plus elite agility, combined with very highly-refined technique.

FYI - Julio Jones (6026/220):
4.42/40, 1.53/10-yd ... 38.5 VJ/135 LJ ... 4.25 ss/6.65 3cone

Ummm... Cat like quickness?

 

[luuked]

BTW, for those of you who look to Bedard for this stuff, he just stated that he thinks Brady has been fine, and that the problem has been mostly personnel.

Also, according to him, Brady only had 3 bad throws in the last game.

Has the subscription been worth it ?

 

[fnordcircle]

Hey Ian, welcome to the forum. Who is that old guy in that picture with you?

 

[manxman2601]

Me neither. I totally see the potential for confusion here..

Hey @manxman2601 write a terminology guide I would ask @Off The Grid but I am not sure us Earthlings would understand it.

I haven’t read the whole debate, but I’d define explosiveness as short area burst from a standing start (although it can also be used to describe speed out of cuts for receivers) and twitchiness as the ability to change direction on the move. I don’t know if that helps or whether you got there already.

 

[luuked]

I haven’t read the whole debate, but I’d define explosiveness as short area burst from a standing start (although it can also be used to describe speed out of cuts for receivers) and twitchiness as the ability to change direction on the move. I don’t know if that helps or whether you got there already.

I see it the same way. It was more an attempt at humor than really asking u to write anything though.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

BTW, for those of you who look to Bedard for this stuff, he just stated that he thinks Brady has been fine, and that the problem has been mostly personnel.

Also, according to him, Brady only had 3 bad throws in the last game.

cmon, Brady, its not that cold!

 

[Deus Irae]

Has the subscription been worth it ?

I don't have one. He made his comments on the radio.

 

[Ian]

 

[Ian]

 

[Ian]

Has the subscription been worth it ?

I have one, and they've done a good job. Chris and Greg are a great combination (Chris on the day-to-day stuff is excellent & Greg's analysis pieces are always a great read) and obviously, the addition of Miguel for salary cap information is terrific - although I'm a little bias there

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I haven’t read the whole debate, but I’d define explosiveness as short area burst from a standing start (although it can also be used to describe speed out of cuts for receivers) and twitchiness as the ability to change direction on the move. I don’t know if that helps or whether you got there already.

Good to see you around again. I always forget to check out the pofo. I like talking draft more, anyway (even though I tend to like your views).

 

[manxman2601]

Good to see you around again. I always forget to check out the pofo. I like talking draft more, anyway (even though I tend to like your views).

Hi Reamer. Aside from watching the Pats games, I haven’t followed football at all this year so I’m way behind on everything. I haven’t watched a snap of CFB for example. I don’t know if I’ll be able to follow the draft this year but maybe the bug will catch me.

Is it right Draft Breakdown is shutting down?