Epic Battle of Elite QB's

[Deus Irae]

Rams are not ready for that moniker. Nowhere near the star power of the Patriots and Steelers.

To repeat, with the AFC game date corrected:

Just yesterday, there was a game between 10-2 Philly and the 9-3 Rams. It was a battle between the top 2 picks in last year's draft. Based on NFC v. AFC this year, one could make a fair argument that said game was a bigger game than the Pats/Steelers next week.

 

[Ring 6]

Is it his fault though? Or the defense's? Ben put up 39 points against the Ravens D. That is good.

Seems to me we have 2 high powered offenses going at each other, defenses that have had success of late, but with holes in them to be exploited by the best the league has to offer; and Patriot fans looking at stopping Ben, Antonio and Leveon with Flowers hurt and Van Noy nicked should be worried.

I’m not worried. Injured players being out may make it a closer game but we are a much better team.

 

[TBR]

see that Roethlisberger, Bell, and Brown each lead the league in yardage for their respective categories:

NFL Player Stats | NFL.com

I hardly care much about league leading passing yards, but Brady hasn't played his week 13 game yet. He should easily re-gain the lead after tonight.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Roethlisberger is an All Time Great NFL QB. 6th in career wins, likely 4th (behind the GOAT, Manning and Farve) if he plays another year .

6 all time playoff wins, will tie for 3rd if Pittsburgh wins a playoff game this year, behind the Goat and the ex Goat.

His career like P Manning has been damaged by having the misfortune of playing in the same conference as the GOAT.


This guy is a first ballot HoF player.

You and a couple other posters above you have said very nice things and looked at the situation objectively. That is much appreciated!

Again, as I have said recently and have said since '07, no one is boldly proclaiming that Ben and Brady are equals, as the career accomplishments of each bear that out. As opposed to '07, we are now at a point where no QB in history can claim to be Brady's equal. (Although Montana's 4-0 record with 11 TD's and 0 INT's in the Super Bowl may have a case against Brady's 5-2, 15-5 ratio. I still give the nod to Tom.) However, it cannot be dismissed that Ben remains in striking distance, provided he does not retire within the next 2-3 seasons. He absolutely has the offensive weaponry to make serious SB runs for the foreseeable future, and contrary to rumors of his demise early in the season, he obviously is still physically capable.

That's what makes this season's matchups against the Pats crucial and historically epic. If the Steelers can finally get past NE this year and Ben wins a third ring, Brady vs. Ben is still a conversation. If NE again ousts Pit, the conversation is over for good. As Apollo Creed says to Adrian in Rocky III - "It's over. It's alllll over."

 

[jah]

Just yesterday, there was a game between 10-2 Philly and the 9-3 Rams. It was a battle between the top 2 picks in last year's draft. Based on NFC v. AFC this year, one could make a fair argument that said game was a bigger game than tonight's.

To be fair, they were the top 2 picks because of trades. They weren't the two worst teams in the NFL by record.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Let's review what needs to happen for Tom to sink to Ben's level, statistically.

These are facts, not speculation.

If Tom Brady throws 102 interceptions before he throws even one more touchdown pass, he and Ben will be equal in career TD/INT ratio (regular season)

If Tom Brady starts at QB for 44 more games and throws for a combined zero touchdowns in all of them, he and Ben will be equal in TD passes per start for their careers (regular season)

If Tom Brady starts at QB for 90 more games and the Patriots lose each and every one of them, he and Ben will be equal in winning percentage (regular season)

pretty revealing, right?

These extrapolations lack accuracy. For instance, Tom's career record is 218 - 63 for .776.
90 losses brings that to 218 - 153. That's a .587 winning pct. Ben's career winning pct. is .681. So losing 90 straight games would put Tom nearly 100 pct. points behind Ben's current pct.

I suspect there are problems with the other extrapolations as well, but the overall point is that Pats fans seem to mistakenly think that Tom is far more out of Ben's reach than is really the case. And again, this is what makes the upcoming showdown one of epic magnitude - and that is only part 1. This season will feature TWO of these historic battles between these two QB legends, with a lot on the line regarding the comparison of their legacies.

 

[TommyD4207]

The Ravens D actually has 3 shutouts this year

One of them is against the Dolphins. That hardly counts.

 

[Deus Irae]

These extrapolations lack accuracy. For instance, Tom's career record is 218 - 63 for .776.
90 losses brings that to 218 - 153. That's a .587 winning pct. Ben's career winning pct. is .681. So losing 90 straight games would put Tom nearly 100 pct. points behind Ben's current pct.

Why U no do math gud?

Speaking of a lack of accuracy:

A difference of .094 is less than 10 percent. It's nowhere near 100 percent.

 

[brdmaverick]

Do not understand why 3 500 yard games is some high standard??.. What it tells me is that the Raven suck, and they have no Pass D.

Trust me, I don't think 3 500 yard games is the barometer for league greatness either. That, I agree with.

As far as trying to diminish the accomplishment because it was against the Ravens, that's where I disagree. I believe the announcers mentioned that the Ravens hadn't given up a 300 yard performance all season, so actually I think it's more impressive that it was against the Ravens.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

I have a couple of times. Administrative Assistants often have a very stressful job.

I was a computer tech in the military and they made me do that job every now and then when the execs were out of the office, and I was terrible at it. And fired from helping after a week. The straw that probably broke the camel's back was someone called and said "Hey is (deputy director's first name) there?" Me: "No sir" Him: "Ok I'll call him later."

Director said "Did anyone call?" I said "Yea."

"Did you get his name?"
"No"
"His number?"
"No"
"What'd he want?"
"Idk"
"Well for **** sake A Defiant Goose why are you even up here"
"He said he'd call later so I figured you'd find all of that out later idfk"

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

These extrapolations lack accuracy. For instance, Tom's career record is 218 - 63 for .776.
90 losses brings that to 218 - 153. That's a .587 winning pct. Ben's career winning pct. is .681. So losing 90 straight games would put Tom nearly 100 pct. points behind Ben's current pct.

my bad, I did mess up the math on this one, and only one, stat, in my haste. Let's look at the real numbers

regular season, Tom is 193-54, 0.781
proof: Tom Brady Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

regular season, Ben is 134-62, 0.684
proof: Ben Roethlisberger Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Q how many games in a row would Tom have to lose to match Ben's winning percentage?

193/(193+54+x) = 0.684

193 = 132 + 37 + 0.684 x

x= (193-132-37)/0.684 = 35

fact: If Tom Brady lost the next 35 games as a starter, he'd match Ben

so, if New England becomes worse than Cleveland has ever been, for the next three years straight, it will equalize.

I will re-crunch the other numbers too.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

TD, INT

regular season, Tom has 482 TDs and 156 INTs = 3.09 ratio
regular season, Ben has 325 TDs and 173 INTs = 1.88 ratio

482 / (156+x) = 1.88

482= 293 + 1.88x

x = (482-292)/1.88 = 101

fact: If Tom Brady throws 101 INTs and no TDs, he'd match Ben

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

TDs per start

Tom has 482 TDs in 247 starts = 1.95
Ben has 325 TDs in 196 starts = 1.66

482 / (247 + x) = 1.66

482 = 410 + 1.66x
72/1.66 = x = 43

fact: If Tom Brady plays 43 games with no TDs, he'd match Ben

 

[primetime]

These extrapolations lack accuracy. For instance, Tom's career record is 218 - 63 for .776.
90 losses brings that to 218 - 153. That's a .587 winning pct. Ben's career winning pct. is .681. So losing 90 straight games would put Tom nearly 100 pct. points behind Ben's current pct.

I suspect there are problems with the other extrapolations as well, but the overall point is that Pats fans seem to mistakenly think that Tom is far more out of Ben's reach than is really the case. And again, this is what makes the upcoming showdown one of epic magnitude - and that is only part 1. This season will feature TWO of these historic battles between these two QB legends, with a lot on the line regarding the comparison of their legacies.

"One hundred percentage points."

There really isn't any legacy on the line here. Roethlisberger will be a Hall of Famer, deservedly, but was never even a top-3 quarterback in the NFL at any point during his career, and for much of it has hovered at the back end or outside the top-5. Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers throughout most of his career, and then a number of others depending on the year, from Brett Favre to Kurt Warner to Cam Newton to Eli Manning to Matt Ryan. Roethlisberger's's never been an All Pro, has never even received a single vote for MVP. And he's a rapist.

 

[Fixit]

Hey, do you guys remember when Roethlisberger posted a robust 22 QB rating in his first SB? He shouldn't get any credit whatsoever for that ring.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Hey, do you guys remember when Roethlisberger posted a robust 22 QB rating in his first SB? He shouldn't get any credit whatsoever for that ring.

The real MVP of SB XL:

 

[sb1]

These extrapolations lack accuracy. For instance, Tom's career record is 218 - 63 for .776.
90 losses brings that to 218 - 153. That's a .587 winning pct. Ben's career winning pct. is .681. So losing 90 straight games would put Tom nearly 100 pct. points behind Ben's current pct.

I suspect there are problems with the other extrapolations as well, but the overall point is that Pats fans seem to mistakenly think that Tom is far more out of Ben's reach than is really the case. And again, this is what makes the upcoming showdown one of epic magnitude - and that is only part 1. This season will feature TWO of these historic battles between these two QB legends, with a lot on the line regarding the comparison of their legacies.

Not really. Their legacies are set regardless of the outcome of this game.

Brady is also a 5 time Super Bowl Champion. Unlikely that Ben will win 3 more to equal that mark.

 

[primetime]

Hey, do you guys remember when Roethlisberger posted a robust 22 QB rating in his first SB? He shouldn't get any credit whatsoever for that ring.

The officials should get all the credit for that ring.

 

[brdmaverick]

Hey, do you guys remember when Roethlisberger posted a robust 22 QB rating in his first SB? He shouldn't get any credit whatsoever for that ring.

He wasn't much better in the divisional round against the Jets.

 

[brdmaverick]

Is this the best most epic QB matchup? No, certainly not, but it is pretty darn good.

I mean, I'm sure it's extremely rare to have a matchup of two QBs with 7 combined rings who are still playing at a high level and are at the top of the standings.

After all, usually the ones with lots of rings are over the hill and just playing out the string.