Dwayne Allen

[supafly]

Yes, sometimes you pay backups to sit on the bench.

The obvious situation is QB. We want to have a quality backup. He is really valuable only when there is an injury.

Our offense has a solid set of receivers, and also a fine set of running backs (even with one out).

This season, the offense is not built for a 2 receiving TE's. With Gronk, we have all we need from the TE position, other than occasionally needing a blocking TE in the game.

So, the issue for the GM, as it was last year, was the same. How does one prepare for the possibility that Gronk is out. Who would replace Gronk in the offense that used one TE. That TE needn't have any use whatsoever unless Gronk is injured. If Gronk is injured, the backup needs to be a blocker and pass receiver. However, the more important role is to be a blocker in a one TE set, a blocker who is a potential threat to catch a short pass or a dump off. Ideally, he should be able to be able to catch an intermediate pass.

With Gronk healthy, we don't know whether All can perform the role for which he was signed, a single TE. We guess that since he hasn't done well as a second TE in a 2 TE set, that he is therefore unable to play his primary role, if it ever needed. My bottom line is that if Josh is comfortable that he is OK as a Gronk replacement, Allan can ride the pine.
===============
So, for me, Allen is an expensive backup for the second most important player on the offense. Sure, we're nervous that Allen won't be ready if he is needed.

I'm not sure if I fully buy that theory, but that's obviously just my opinion. Allen saw 50 snaps when Gronk was injured and didn't play in the week five contest, and still didn't see a single target.

To take it one step further, I just don't believe that Belichick would choose to spend almost 6m dollars on a backup TE with no other real purpose but to enter the game in case of injury? He has the 8th highest cap hit on the entire team. When have we ever seen that kind of money for a full-time pine riding backup who isn't seeing the field? Most here are freaking about a guy like David Harris, and his cap hit is 2.8m dollars.

 

[supafly]

I am surprised there is not more discussion of these moves, which have been disappointing to date. Toss in the Brissett for Dorsett trade and it looks like Belichick uncharacteristically lost more than he gained. Of course Gillislee still could break a couple and emerge as a power back, Burkhead should return soon and looks like a solid receiver at least, and I think Dorsett has shown better than his stats. Guy looks pretty good to me and Bademosi has been a pleasant surprise. It is harder to make a case for Allen, but I still haven't written him off completely. Develin is quietly having a career year which might have something to do with Allen's difficulties. Can you think of another guy who had such a disappointing start turn it around? I cannot.

I think there may be some concern with the fact that the past few drafts have not produced anything in terms of the first pick taken. We have had Easley cut, the stolen first in 2015, Cyrus Jones, and now both Rivers and Garcia hurt. Add in Jamie Collins getting traded for a 3rd, and you're going all the way back to 2013. While no one wants to jump to any conclusions, common sense would state that if it were any other team we'd all be discussing how it's impossible to withstand that without seeing negative effects. Here, we still have Tom Brady, the great masker of all weaknesses.

Taking it even further, Belichick decided to throw the entire 2017 draft out the window for more "pro ready" (that's what people said at the time) players who wouldn't waste any time picking up the system. That left us with 4 total picks + having to part with a 4th for Rowe next spring. Out of those 4 picks, one (Wise) has looked like he belongs anywhere on a football field. McDermott was cut, and we won't be able to fully evaluate Rivers or Garcia until next year, where hopefully they can be included as "bonus picks" to our spring draft.

There have been some questionable moves in FA, as you mentioned. Many were shocked that Belichick would choose to pay an outsider that kind of money at CB, and all signs point to Butler leaving, which certainly has the potential to make the position thin. Eric Rowe is still something of an unknown, so time will tell if he'll be a part of the plans moving forward. Allen has the 8th highest cap hit on the team right now. David Harris has a hit of almost 3m dollars and hasn't really stepped on the field, aside from a handful of snaps. We have almost 20m dollars in cap space tied up in dead cap hits, players on IR, and non-football injury lists. Again, we shouldn't be panicking, but the writing is on the wall that some poor decisions and bad luck have the potential to set both the current and the future of the team back a bit.

We need to get some good luck back with some of these injuries, get back to drafting well in the first round/first pick again, and have a solid free agency period in the spring.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, Bennet's role last year was as an injury replacement when Gronk was out. For me, anything else was gravy.

But, yes, you make an important point. Where was Allen when Gronk was out for a game? I guess that Josh felt that there were better options for the game plan, and obviously Brady agreed. We had every reason to hope that Allen would have been able to contribute when Gronk was out.

I'm not sure if I fully buy that theory, but that's obviously just my opinion. Allen saw 50 snaps when Gronk was injured and didn't play in the week five contest, and still didn't see a single target.

To take it one step further, I just don't believe that Belichick would choose to spend almost 6m dollars on a backup TE with no other real purpose but to enter the game in case of injury? He has the 8th highest cap hit on the entire team. When have we ever seen that kind of money for a full-time pine riding backup who isn't seeing the field? Most here are freaking about a guy like David Harris, and his cap hit is 2.8m dollars.

 

[Gronkowski123]

this guy stinks.

the struggle for a 2nd TE continues!! we had a guy last year!!!

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Jack Doyle stinks and the Colts kept him over Dwayne Allen, that tells you everything.

 

[mgteich]

Obviously, we need better luck on the injury front with our acquisitions. Perhaps, Belichick was wrong to spend so much draft capital on future OT's and on EDGE players. Belichick decided to use the draft for these positions, and to trade and use free agency for others.

I would note that going into the season, almost everyone judged that the patriots had the best off-season.

I suppose that it was terrible to us our first on Cooks. Do you believe that now?

Belichick decide to pay Gilmore instead of Butler. Belichick could have then used Butler money to secure a 1-year rental at corner to play opposite Butler. Many on this board consider Butler to be an elite corner worth this kind of money. Apparently, Belichick disagrees. And just BTW, when we play the 2017 playoffs, I suspect that we will be happier with Butler and Gilmore, rather than Butler and a random rental.
===========
BOTTOM LINE
We are extremely frustrated that we are leading the division at 4-2, that there will likely be no better teams when the playoffs come, and that Allen and Gilmore aren't fully integrated into the team's plans.

AN ASIDE
Are you unhappy when you look at our prospects for 2018 and 2019? I'm not. The offense has a good mix of vets and youngsters. On defense, we are in more danger. Sure, we need another stud or two. Everyone does. And, they will come. NO ONE has succeeded as well as we have. We're very, very spoiled.

The world will change when Brady leaves, and a new team is built. For now, enjoy the ride. We're doing fine.

I think there may be some concern with the fact that the past few drafts have not produced anything in terms of the first pick taken. We have had Easley cut, the stolen first in 2015, Cyrus Jones, and now both Rivers and Garcia hurt. Add in Jamie Collins getting traded for a 3rd, and you're going all the way back to 2013. While no one wants to jump to any conclusions, common sense would state that if it were any other team we'd all be discussing how it's impossible to withstand that without seeing negative effects. Here, we still have Tom Brady, the great masker of all weaknesses.

Taking it even further, Belichick decided to throw the entire 2017 draft out the window for more "pro ready" (that's what people said at the time) players who wouldn't waste any time picking up the system. That left us with 4 total picks + having to part with a 4th for Rowe next spring. Out of those 4 picks, one (Wise) has looked like he belongs anywhere on a football field. McDermott was cut, and we won't be able to fully evaluate Rivers or Garcia until next year, where hopefully they can be included as "bonus picks" to our spring draft.

There have been some questionable moves in FA, as you mentioned. Many were shocked that Belichick would choose to pay an outsider that kind of money at CB, and all signs point to Butler leaving, which certainly has the potential to make the position thin. Eric Rowe is still something of an unknown, so time will tell if he'll be a part of the plans moving forward. Allen has the 8th highest cap hit on the team right now. David Harris has a hit of almost 3m dollars and hasn't really stepped on the field, aside from a handful of snaps. We have almost 20m dollars in cap space tied up in dead cap hits, players on IR, and non-football injury lists. Again, we shouldn't be panicking, but the writing is on the wall that some poor decisions and bad luck have the potential to set both the current and the future of the team back a bit.

We need to get some good luck back with some of these injuries, get back to drafting well in the first round/first pick again, and have a solid free agency period in the spring.

 

[mgteich]

this guy stinks.

the struggle for a 2nd TE continues!! we had a guy last year!!!

yes, we did. And that backup might have come back for $8M or $9M. The reality is that he came here to proved himself, and improve his value to someone else.

It is difficult to find a player who will be a competent starter when Gronk is out, and who will be happy with a minor role when Gronk is healthy.

 

[Angelpats]

yes, we did. And that backup might have come back for $8M or $9M. The reality is that he came here to proved himself, and improve his value to someone else.

It is difficult to find a player who will be a competent starter when Gronk is out, and who will be happy with a minor role when Gronk is healthy.

Mgteich, you are a good member here. You always keep discussions professional and never resort to name calling just because someone disagrees with you. Thanks. You are right mostly about Allen, the only issue is that for his cap hit he shouldn't be riding the bench. That's starting salary. The examples with the backup Qbs should include that their cap hit is representative of other backup Qbs. I think Bb is always on the lookout for the Hernandez replacement.

 

[supafly]

Obviously, we need better luck on the injury front with our acquisitions. Perhaps, Belichick was wrong to spend so much draft capital on future OT's and on EDGE players. Belichick decided to use the draft for these positions, and to trade and use free agency for others.

I would note that going into the season, almost everyone judged that the patriots had the best off-season.

I suppose that it was terrible to us our first on Cooks. Do you believe that now?

Belichick decide to pay Gilmore instead of Butler. Belichick could have then used Butler money to secure a 1-year rental at corner to play opposite Butler. Many on this board consider Butler to be an elite corner worth this kind of money. Apparently, Belichick disagrees. And just BTW, when we play the 2017 playoffs, I suspect that we will be happier with Butler and Gilmore, rather than Butler and a random rental.
===========
BOTTOM LINE
We are extremely frustrated that we are leading the division at 4-2, that there will likely be no better teams when the playoffs come, and that Allen and Gilmore aren't fully integrated into the team's plans.

AN ASIDE
Are you unhappy when you look at our prospects for 2018 and 2019? I'm not. The offense has a good mix of vets and youngsters. On defense, we are in more danger. Sure, we need another stud or two. Everyone does. And, they will come. NO ONE has succeeded as well as we have. We're very, very spoiled.

The world will change when Brady leaves, and a new team is built. For now, enjoy the ride. We're doing fine.

Brady continues to mask all weaknesses and has done so for a long time.

The bottom line is that we've had very little, if any production with our first player chosen for the past 3-4 years now, as well as an unproductive draft class for 2017. That certainly has the potential to bite us down the road. No doubt about it. Whether or not it will is anyone's guess, but the concern is understandable. When you combine that with what may end up being a poor free agency/trade class too (sans Cooks, of course--and I'm fine with trading a first and third for him), one can appreciate the debate.

 

[Deus Irae]

IMHO, Bennet's role last year was as an injury replacement when Gronk was out.

I'm not sure where you're getting that notion.

 

[jmt57]

Allen had 126 receptions in what was for all intents and purposes four seasons.


What happened where he suddenly cannot get open or catch the ball?

Another victim of inability to grasp the Patriot offense (based on the opposing defensive alignment), as opposed to simply running a specific route that was called in the huddle?

 

[Mack Herron]

Allen had 126 receptions in what was for all intents and purposes four seasons.


What happened where he suddenly cannot get open or catch the ball?

Another victim of inability to grasp the Patriot offense (based on the opposing defensive alignment), as opposed to simply running a specific route that was called in the huddle?

He said himself he is having trouble picking up the system, so TB cannot rely on him. Historically this is not a good sign. Of course we all hope he breaks out of it with some production Sunday.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

No more colts!

All ex colts are soft minded and weak

Just watching the soft horses piss away a lead last night is prima facie evidence of the veracity of your statement. The guy who beat out Allen, Jack Doyle, lost the game for them. Awful.

 

[Angelpats]

He said himself he is having trouble picking up the system, so TB cannot rely on him. Historically this is not a good sign. Of course we all hope he breaks out of it with some production Sunday.

He will catch a ball eventually but you are correct in saying that early failures in this system usually doesn't end well.

 

[GorBelSer]

Surely a huge disappointment so far, I expected some kind of offensive contribution, he had 19 TDs in 57 game with Colts, playing under the QB who was often hurt and makeshift OL. He could be used as a RZ option, that is his forte, my guess is that they sort of "cut" him from the game plan due to OL issues. Brady is almost always under duress and naturally looks for receivers he knows longer and better.

 

[captain stone]

In hindsight it was a terrible move. I'll leave it at that.

It was a terrible move in foresight too, as some of us foretold.

#BillsWorstOffseasonEver

 

[Biffins]

Dwayne Allen actually makes me miss Scott Chandler

Dwayne Allen makes me miss Zach Sudfeld!

 

[kennyb]

He's an expensive backup te who sucks. Watching him try to catch a pass is like watching a blind kid field a fly ball. It's not going to work.

We traded for this? Arguably worse than the gilmore signing, although that's going to be quite a cap hit when the cut him.

 

[supafly]

He's an expensive backup te who sucks. Watching him try to catch a pass is like watching a blind kid field a fly ball. It's not going to work.

We traded for this? Arguably worse than the gilmore signing, although that's going to be quite a cap hit when the cut him.

They'll save 5m dollars against the cap next year if they cut him after this season. They may have moved on, anyway, unless he looked like the second coming of Ben Coates.

 

[Kdo5]

Allen had 126 receptions in what was for all intents and purposes four seasons.
ThT

What happened where he vsuddenly cannot get open or catch the ball

Another victim of inability to grasp the Patriot offense (based on the opposing defensive alignment), as opposed to simply running a specific route that was called in the huddle?

It's exactly as you theorize about inability to grasp the offense. As someone else mentioned, Allen himself commented on how difficult it was. That's a major red flag. Seems like Brady didn't really trust him to begin with, and with the few chances Brady has given him, Allen has failed.

Also he has underwhelmed with his blocking recently.

He is useless. But for some reason he is still on our roster, presumably because we haven't found anybody who is clearly better. Maybe they still think he can be salvaged as a blocker.

Man Gronk has to stay healthy...