Dugger possible COVID positive or contact (edit: added to Reserve/Covid list)

[PatsFanInVa]

I think things are about to get real ugly again in the NFL in terms of Covid upending the season right as the playoffs are approaching.

I'm still knocking on wood, but, as they say, damn.

Since we don't know yet one way or the other, I'm hoping against hope it's less lethal. But at 3x more infectious than Delta, I guess it can be considdable more virulent and still out-compete it. Of course it could be less virulent and outcompete it too.

 

[Tunescribe]

Sorry you can't wrap your head around what is an extreme regional supply/demand problem at positions hospitals have no choice but to fully staff.
You can easily google what I've mentioned rather than making ill-informed denunciations
Here's one source (Newsweek):

In order to cover staff shortages in hospitals, Miami's Jackson Memorial Health System paid time-and-a-half for overtime and an additional $500 per picked-up 12-hour shift. Even with those incentives, the hospital still turns to agencies to fill openings, the Associated Press reported.
The hospital's CEO said nurses are being lured away from their jobs to others states at double or triple the salary. Executive vice president Julie Staub said some nurses are also being lost to staffing agencies or pandemic burnout.
"You are seeing folks chase the dollars," she said. "If they have the flexibility to pick up and go somewhere else and live for a week, months, whatever and make more money, it is a very enticing thing to do. I think every health care system is facing that."
Florida Nurses Offered $500 Bonuses for Each Extra Shift During COVID Surge (newsweek.com)

That story is about Miami Dade county.
As you move up the coast, the dynamics change.
In Broward County, hospitals are paying $1000/shift bonuses. My source: Head ER Broward county hospital nurse (and neighbor) who recruits nurses to fill shifts.
In Palm Beach County where the country's wealthiest snowbirds and retirees come to spend their life's fortunes and die in luxury, hospitals are paying nurses even more; bonuses ($1000-$1500) on regular shifts as well as extra shifts and some nurses are at the same time getting overtime wages for all hours not just OT hours (as crazy as that sounds). My source: a Palm Beach county nurse (and neighbor) who cashes these checks and my wife who has access to her hospital's weekly budget reports.

Note: My people in the know, just like the article, all say "you can't believe how many local nurses are uprooting and heading to Texas.

OK, thanks for the sourcing. Still, those are uncommon outlier examples like in Fargo, N.D. -- at least, for now. We'll see what happens if Omicron takes the healthcare system back to square one.

 

[amfootball]

I'm still knocking on wood, but, as they say, damn.

Since we don't know yet one way or the other, I'm hoping against hope it's less lethal. But at 3x more infectious than Delta, I guess it can be considdable more virulent and still out-compete it. Of course it could be less virulent and outcompete it too.

This is what concerns me. The league is not making the booster mandatory. At least not yet. The majority of players and coaches were vaccinated in the spring or summer. This means their immunity is expiring now or has already expired.

The new variant may be more contagious but the players and coaches will also be susceptible to the normal COVID plus the Delta variant.

I do wonder how many players may get the booster. I was reading that in Mass about 20% of vaccinated people are getting the booster. Since the NFL is a microcosm of society perhaps 20% might be what happens. Either way I think cases are going to go up over the next few weeks and potentially compromise the playoffs which is very depressing.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

This is what concerns me. The league is not making the booster mandatory. At least not yet. The majority of players and coaches were vaccinated in the spring or summer. This means their immunity is expiring now or has already expired.

The new variant may be more contagious but the players and coaches will also be susceptible to the normal COVID plus the Delta variant.

I do wonder how many players may get the booster. I was reading that in Mass about 20% of vaccinated people are getting the booster. Since the NFL is a microcosm of society perhaps 20% might be what happens. Either way I think cases are going to go up over the next few weeks and potentially compromise the playoffs which is very depressing.

Stepping away from the politics, I saw your post about "what am I supposed to do, get another shot every 6 months?"

A couple of responses -

My first read was, DAMN, it's a PANDEMIC, this is some walking-death sh*** out there, the answer is "yes," blah blah blah, because, death. This is not normal, people need to get that.

My second reaction was, I get it. What if your booster DOES really wipe you out?

Welcome to old age! Well, for me middle age.

I recently realized that one of my meds has an unpleasant side effect that's unpleasant enough that I'm just going to discontinue it. I need to tell the doc of course but it's out. I'm only taking it because my original statin felt like somebody was trying to break me on the rack all day, so I had to step down to a wussy statin. Now I'm going to hope for the best with diet and exercise, call me crazy, plus the other well tolerated statin & blood pressure med

The point of all that is, eventually we all get the wonders of modern medicine, but what they don't tell you is, yeah you might not tolerate it well enough. Then it's time to pick: pain from the side effect, or worse statistical outcomes. It's a lesson in risk management. You don't eliminate it, you mitigate it.

Sincere good luck to you on how the booster treats you, and same to us.

 

[holyredeemer]

This thread is a ****ing mess. So Dugs tested positive for Covid, but if vaccinated, as long as he tests negative two times in 48 hrs he’s good to go for Monday? Like some others have said, not the best situation to be in. The Pars have been in worse though. If Joker is right and the refs aren’t going to be calling holding, can’t they focus on have a DE or OLB jamming Knox off the line to help Williams, double up Diggs with JC and McCourty, and throw Bryant or the Goblin on Beasley? Easier said than done, but seems like they have the weapons to slow them down. I’d like to see AP as a spy in on Allen and cover midfield. Not sure what Collins role is in all this. Assuming he’s 100%, he could help with spy duties as well.

 

[Ring 6]

OK, thanks for the sourcing. Still, those are uncommon outlier examples like in Fargo, N.D. -- at least, for now. We'll see what happens if Omicron takes the healthcare system back to square one.

New York State is not an uncommon outlier.

 

[amfootball]

Stepping away from the politics, I saw your post about "what am I supposed to do, get another shot every 6 months?"

A couple of responses -

My first read was, DAMN, it's a PANDEMIC, this is some walking-death sh*** out there, the answer is "yes," blah blah blah, because, death. This is not normal, people need to get that.

My second reaction was, I get it. What if your booster DOES really wipe you out?

Welcome to old age! Well, for me middle age.

I recently realized that one of my meds has an unpleasant side effect that's unpleasant enough that I'm just going to discontinue it. I need to tell the doc of course but it's out. I'm only taking it because my original statin felt like somebody was trying to break me on the rack all day, so I had to step down to a wussy statin. Now I'm going to hope for the best with diet and exercise, call me crazy, plus the other well tolerated statin & blood pressure med

The point of all that is, eventually we all get the wonders of modern medicine, but what they don't tell you is, yeah you might not tolerate it well enough. Then it's time to pick: pain from the side effect, or worse statistical outcomes. It's a lesson in risk management. You don't eliminate it, you mitigate it.

Sincere good luck to you on how the booster treats you, and same to us.

Thanks. I really appreciate this post. I think any decision right now is difficult for a lot of different reasons.

I hear you on getting older and dealing with medications versus side effects. I have had chronic pain most of my life going back to my twenties. It was during that time that I decided to take a more holistic approach for my health care. I really had no other choice because I didn't want to keep taking a lot of pain medication and muscle relaxers. I have found that this approach has really worked for me but it takes time and requires a lot of patience and also trial and error like anything else.

This vaccine in many ways goes against my core beliefs in terms of health care and the immune system. That being said, it is a pandemic like you said, so that requires a different level of thinking and perhaps a different approach. I was really hoping the vaccine would actually prevent people from getting covid but I think that was wishful thinking because of what we are dealing with not because the medical community is not trying really hard to help us.

So now with this booster, I am not sure what to think. I am worried about my family and loved ones who are getting it as I don't want anything bad to happen to them but at the same time I don't want them getting covid either. I am not sure what I'm going to do, yet. I really don't have any peace about it so I continue to pray for wisdom not just for myself but for everyone.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I'm still knocking on wood, but, as they say, damn.

Since we don't know yet one way or the other, I'm hoping against hope it's less lethal. But at 3x more infectious than Delta, I guess it can be considdable more virulent and still out-compete it. Of course it could be less virulent and outcompete it too.

Can you post the scientific paper that shows it is 3x more infectious than Delta?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

This thread is a ****ing mess. So Dugs tested positive for Covid, but if vaccinated, as long as he tests negative two times in 48 hrs he’s good to go for Monday?

correct, the only thing im unclear on is would he have to test negative today and tomorrow, or could he test negative tomorrow and early Monday to get cleared for the game..

 

[slash83]

correct, the only thing im unclear on is would he have to test negative today and tomorrow, or could he test negative tomorrow and early Monday to get cleared for the game..

I believe if he has his first negative test Sunday and tests negative a second time on Monday he’ll be eligible to play. Big day is tomorrow, if he’s still positive tomorrow he’ll be ruled out.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Can you post the scientific paper that shows it is 3x more infectious than Delta?

Checking around, some sites (e.g., the WHO website) are saying "may be more transmissible," meanwhile it is spreading twice as fast -- not three times as fast -- in South Africa--according to this artic;e. (definitionally, "spreading twice as fast" might not be the same thing as "twice as infectious", and it goes without saying twice isn't three times.)


But that's certainly not the only article, and sources differ. Here's a recent article in the journal Nature:

How bad is Omicron? What scientists know so far

COVID researchers are working at breakneck speed to learn about the variant’s transmissibility, severity and ability to evade vaccines.

www.nature.com

Gauteng’s R value was well below 1 in September — when Delta was the predominant variant and cases were falling — suggesting that Omicron has the potential to spread much faster and infect vastly more people than Delta, says Tom Wenseleers, an evolutionary biologist at the Catholic University of Leuven in Belgium. Based on the rise in COVID-19 cases and on sequencing data, Wenseleers estimates that Omicron can infect three to six times as many people as Delta, over the same time period. “That’s a huge advantage for the virus — but not for us,” he adds.

This is an article, not a peer-reviewed paper, and the article opens with a frank assertion that,

"...it might take scientists weeks to paint a more complete picture of Omicron, and to gain an understanding of its transmissibility and severity, as well as its potential to evade vaccines and cause reinfections."

Of course, if you have a link to a paper with the opposite outcome, i.e., that omicron is not spreading any faster than Delta, nor out-competing it, peer reviewed and so on (for a phenomenon that's come to all our attention in the last couple of weeks) let me know.

Get your booster. It's highly likely that the vaccines we have confer some immunity in the case of Omicron. Wear your mask; it appears to use the same mode of transmission. Cross your fingers and hope it's less infectious (seems very unlikely) or if, as seems very likely, it is more infectious, that it is less severe.

This is what a few reports I'm seeing this morning say - only mild symptoms. If that holds up it'll be fantastic news.

But please let us know what the peer reviewed studies are saying. Hell, I just want to know the methodology to get them available so fast!

 

[moosekill]

Yes there is. I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong about that. It's perhaps the biggest misconception out there.

A vaccinated person is 3-5 less likely to get COVID.
Peak COVID, the highly infectious period, lasts for a much shorter time period than for a person not vaccinated.

One headline sent this misrepresentation spinning about the internet: "A vaccinated person can be as contagious as an unvaccinated person."

Technically true, but it doesn't mean what you said, or what has been inferred around the intertubes. The Atlantic did a great write-up on this, including links to the studies.

75% of statistics are made up.

 

[Nunchucks]

This is what concerns me. The league is not making the booster mandatory. At least not yet. The majority of players and coaches were vaccinated in the spring or summer. This means their immunity is expiring now or has already expired.

The new variant may be more contagious but the players and coaches will also be susceptible to the normal COVID plus the Delta variant.

I do wonder how many players may get the booster. I was reading that in Mass about 20% of vaccinated people are getting the booster. Since the NFL is a microcosm of society perhaps 20% might be what happens. Either way I think cases are going to go up over the next few weeks and potentially compromise the playoffs which is very depressing.

I am 100% going to get the booster, just have not yet. Need to plan for the day of being sick and I am responsible for a lot of shiznit at work.

 

[farn]

I am 100% going to get the booster, just have not yet. Need to plan for the day of being sick and I am responsible for a lot of shiznit at work.

I’d rather focus on Duggar & the NFL and avoid the quagmire of +/- science & vaccines that plagues many of these threads.

Having said that : I used to have the approach you are outlining. Work is work. It’s important, but it’s « just work ». Life is much more than that and I think society has tricked us into thinking work is life. You are surely a key component at work and I believe that if you aren’t there, things are worse. But you are more important than work. Get that booster and protect your loved ones. Work will still be there. GL.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Under the protocols, I don't think Duggar can travel with the team, maybe if he gets a second neg test this am. But being he is vaccinated, it's more likely that he has COVID and will miss at least this game.

I'm sure we will know more once the Pats take off for Buffalo and they have to announce who did and did not make the trip.

Looks like we will see alot more of slowjuan Monday night

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

If he travels id imagine that means hes had at least one negative test and most likely will end up testing negative again tomorrow. So guess well find out very soon his status for Monday. Hoping to be pleasantly suprised here but doubting he’ll make it this week

 

[Bill Lee]

I am 100% going to get the booster, just have not yet. Need to plan for the day of being sick and I am responsible for a lot of shiznit at work.

If it helps, I had the Pfizer booster two weeks ago, and it did not make me sick at all.

The first one did (felt like a medium grade hangover the next day), the second one was pretty much unnoticeable, and the booster was totally unnoticeable.

The injection site did hurt all three times for a few days after. Not sure why that it is.

As usual, your mileage may vary, etc.

 

[patfanken]

I am 100% going to get the booster, just have not yet. Need to plan for the day of being sick and I am responsible for a lot of shiznit at work.

I'll add my experience to Bill's I had no side affects from my first shot March 2nd. I had a very sore arm for about 4 days with my second 30 days later. I got my booster about 2 weeks ago, and again had zero side affects, knock on wood.

Right now we don't know much about this Omicron variant except it does spread faster than the Delta. I agree that most of the vaccinated players are in need of a booster. It might not stop the spread of it, but it likely will mitigate the severity of the illness. I'm surprised the league hasn't at least made a recommendation to its players to get the booster.

at any rate, I'm also surprised that the media hasn't found out just where Duggar stands right now in the protocols. Has he passed even ONE test yet? You'd think they would know by now., I guess all we can do is wait until they tell us who is on the plane.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

The original report on Wednesday said he tested positive, which may have been from a Monday or Tuesday test. He probably contracted it on or around Thanksgiving, which is 10 days ago.

We can assume he's vaccinated because otherwise he'd have already been ruled out according to protocols. We don't know if he's experienced any symptoms. If he isn't symptomatic now, he could conceivably test negative yesterday & today, or this morning & tomorrow morning. Not too likely but I've read about cases where they test positive for as few as 5 consecutive days. If his first positive test was say Tuesday and he tested positive for 5 days, the last day would be Saturday.

The team hasn't been sharing the results of his daily tests, so we're gonna be in the dark until sometime Monday. I doubt he travels with the team today. edit: but he could travel tomorrow, right?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Checking around, some sites (e.g., the WHO website) are saying "may be more transmissible," meanwhile it is spreading twice as fast -- not three times as fast -- in South Africa--according to this artic;e. (definitionally, "spreading twice as fast" might not be the same thing as "twice as infectious", and it goes without saying twice isn't three times.)

NPR is a left wing news organization, just like Newsmax is a right wing news organization - neither should be quoted. You correctly note that "spreading twice as fast is not the same as twice as infectious". This is an excellent example of why no-one should listen to partisan news agencies. NPR is comparing Stage 1 of Omicron to Stage 2 of Delta (and they know what they are doing and do not tell their listeners). If the population is 10 and Delta infects 2/3 of the population, then 7 become infected (round up from 6.67). The vaccine will lesson the symptoms, but everyone will eventually get the respiratory virus, so I will continue with the simple example. After 7 people have recovered from Stage 1 Delta, only 3 people are available for infection. Then Omicron comes along and infects 40%, 4 out of 10. At the same time Delta is in Stage 2 and infects 2/3 of remaining people so 2 more people (2/3 of 3 = 2) get the Delta virus, alongside 4 people with Omicron. So Stage 1 of Omicron is spreading twice as fast as Stage 2 of Delta (4 people infected versus 2 people), but the Omicron virus is nearly half as infectious as the Delta virus (4 people versus 7 people infected in Stage 1 of Omicron versus Delta). I realize this generality is flawed, but I hope you get the point. Partisan news agencies should be ignored - there are some great nearly-balanced news reporting on YouTube or Substack. That is not to say that Omicron is less or more infectious than Delta - I have no idea - it is simply a example.

But that's certainly not the only article, and sources differ. Here's a recent article in the journal Nature:

How bad is Omicron? What scientists know so far

COVID researchers are working at breakneck speed to learn about the variant’s transmissibility, severity and ability to evade vaccines.

www.nature.com

You appear to have been duped. You are reading Nature News (at the top of the article is says "NEWS 02 December 2021"), a news agency that leans left, not a journal article. Twitter started the blue check marks because so many people were fooled by misleading names. You can ignore articles from "Nature News" if you are seeking scientific facts.

This is an article, not a peer-reviewed paper, and the article opens with a frank assertion that,

"...it might take scientists weeks to paint a more complete picture of Omicron, and to gain an understanding of its transmissibility and severity, as well as its potential to evade vaccines and cause reinfections."

Of course, if you have a link to a paper with the opposite outcome, i.e., that omicron is not spreading any faster than Delta, nor out-competing it, peer reviewed and so on (for a phenomenon that's come to all our attention in the last couple of weeks) let me know.

I asked my question "tongue in cheek". It is too early for there to be any meaningful studies that could be peer reviewed and published, so I guessed you were quoting news articles.

Get your booster. It's highly likely that the vaccines we have confer some immunity in the case of Omicron. Wear your mask; it appears to use the same mode of transmission. Cross your fingers and hope it's less infectious (seems very unlikely) or if, as seems very likely, it is more infectious, that it is less severe.

Yes get vaccinated. I am vaccinated, so are my children and my three Asian friends. If we are being honest and pragmatic, masks have not proven to be very effective - even though we are wearing masks the virus is still spreading. Go outside and practice social distancing, those approaches are much more reliable. Viruses, over time, have historically become more infectious and less severe so let's hope Omicron follows that pattern which would be the light at the end of the tunnel.

This is what a few reports I'm seeing this morning say - only mild symptoms. If that holds up it'll be fantastic news.

But please let us know what the peer reviewed studies are saying. Hell, I just want to know the methodology to get them available so fast!

Yes, news reports are saying less severe, but it is hard to know the truth. We will see in time. In the meantime go outside and social distance.