Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[sb1]

It all came home to roost in the SB though. That Giants team was close to last rushing the ball or may have been last and they ran it down our throats.

Yep. Sounds familiar

 

[sb1]

genius bill couldn't come up with a game plan.

alright i'm going too far. he's a great coach but Tom covers up a lot of weaknesses on a football team. he's winning multiple championships with another coach. maybe not 6 but he's winning 3 at least.

Depends on his coach. Think he could win 3 with Arians? Not sure about that.

 

[sb1]

brady took the pats to the super bowl in 2011 with the worst defense in the nfl. who's the defensive guru? fact is, what other coaches lack in teaching technique and discipline, they make up for by bringing in talented players and aggressive schemes. They have guys who can actually rush the quarterback.

why couldn't tb create a dynasty with the bears or 49ers or redskins and on and on...

They only made the Super Bowl because the AFC was terrible. Pats beat 0 winning teams during the season - even the 2020 Pats did that 4 times this season - also lucked out drawing Tebow in the divisional round and wouldn’t have beaten the Ravens the week after that if Cundiff doesn’t miss an easy FG.

Only reason why the SB was close was the Giants weren’t much better. Pats would have been blown out if they drew a good NFC team.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

What a load of horse crap. Both teams were much better with Brady than they were without him.

The reason Brady wasn't a Duncan or Shaq (he was actually better) was because he played for a college that invested in another QB who ended up not even being a NYFL caliber QB at all. If it wasn't for TB's clutch play bailing out Michigan they wouldn't have won what little they did.

I don't know why some of you can't appreciate both Tom and Bill and feel the need to criticize one or the other, but if I'm forced to choose between the two then Brady is a no brainer. He did it on the field of play, not on the sidelines.

I appreciate both. I think both are the goat at their jobs. This entire thread is crap.

 

[crawhammer]

Malcolm stated publicly he was not prepared nor was in the right mindset to play the game. Why on earth would BB play him?

Malcolm was suited up, crying like baby on the sideline after Belichick blindsided him with the news that he wouldn't be playing. Malcolm was pissed immediately after the game, stated he didn't know why he had been benched. Belichick also put him on the field for 1 special teams play. The defense, in particular the secondary, got completely shredded while Belichick stubbornly stood his ground. Had Malcolm played, he certainly would have made enough of a difference for them to win the game. It's perhaps the most egregious decision ever made by a head coach for a single game. Belichick wasted an all-time epic performance by Brady who even questioned the decision to sit Malcolm (in the Gray interview at the Milken Institute).

Malcolm could have and should have played. Belichick flushed the entire 2017 season down the toilet with one inexplicable decision.

Belichick also torpedoed the 2015 season by deferring to the Jets in OT and having Brady hand-off to a retired Steven Jackson in Miami. Those two season-ending loses cost them the #1 seed and another Super Bowl title. Fortunately for Belichick his blunders get mostly glossed over due to Brady's heroics pulling out Super Bowl titles in 2014 and 2016.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Malcolm was suited up, crying like baby on the sideline after Belichick blindsided him with the news that he wouldn't be playing. Malcolm was pissed immediately after the game, stated he didn't know why he had been benched. Belichick also put him on the field for 1 special teams play. The defense, in particular the secondary, got completely shredded while Belichick stubbornly stood his ground. Had Malcolm played, he certainly would have made enough of a difference for them to win the game. It's perhaps the most egregious decision ever made by a head coach for a single game. Belichick wasted an all-time epic performance by Brady who even questioned the decision to sit Malcolm (in the Gray interview at the Milken Institute).

Malcolm could have and should have played. Belichick flushed the entire 2017 season down the toilet with one inexplicable decision.

Belichick also torpedoed the 2015 season by deferring to the Jets in OT and having Brady hand-off to a retired Steven Jackson in Miami. Those two season-ending loses cost them the #1 seed and another Super Bowl title. Fortunately for Belichick his blunders get mostly glossed over due to Brady's heroics pulling out Super Bowl titles in 2014 and 2016.

That was very well-written.

...and an incredibly one-sided narrative.

 

[Tompa12]

Bill took a team with Total QB play of:

2800 YDs
8 TDs
14 INTs

to a 6-8 record and likely finish 7-9. A year of COVID, strong SOS with both the Bills and Dolphins SB and playoff caliber. You can argue that with an average QB play they could finish with 10 wins or so. So is it that crazy to say Bill can win with just an average QB when the drop off from a HoF QB isn’t much?

I don’t know. I’m not going to make SB hypothetical wins because it’s not fair.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill took a team with Total QB play of:

2800 YDs
8 TDs
14 INTs

to a 6-8 record and likely finish 7-9. A year of COVID, strong SOS with both the Bills and Dolphins SB and playoff caliber. You can argue that with an average QB play they could finish with 10 wins or so. So is it that crazy to say Bill can win with just an average QB when the drop off from a HoF QB isn’t much?

I don’t know. I’m not going to make SB hypothetical wins because it’s not fair.

If Cam's TD/INT stats were in the inverse Pats would be in serious WC contention.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Malcolm was suited up, crying like baby on the sideline after Belichick blindsided him with the news that he wouldn't be playing. Malcolm was pissed immediately after the game, stated he didn't know why he had been benched. Belichick also put him on the field for 1 special teams play. The defense, in particular the secondary, got completely shredded while Belichick stubbornly stood his ground. Had Malcolm played, he certainly would have made enough of a difference for them to win the game. It's perhaps the most egregious decision ever made by a head coach for a single game. Belichick wasted an all-time epic performance by Brady who even questioned the decision to sit Malcolm (in the Gray interview at the Milken Institute).

Malcolm could have and should have played. Belichick flushed the entire 2017 season down the toilet with one inexplicable decision.

Belichick also torpedoed the 2015 season by deferring to the Jets in OT and having Brady hand-off to a retired Steven Jackson in Miami. Those two season-ending loses cost them the #1 seed and another Super Bowl title. Fortunately for Belichick his blunders get mostly glossed over due to Brady's heroics pulling out Super Bowl titles in 2014 and 2016.

Brady may have questioned the decision to bench Butler, but did anyone question his decision to not throw to a wide open James White on the strip sack by Brandon Graham? or how about his annual 2 interceptions in the super bowl?

 

[Biffins]

the debate is over? lol. No. Its just getting started.

The problem is two fold. You are comparing apples and oranges, one guy is a player, the other a coach g/m. It is far far easier for Brady to prove his mettle by walking onto a team that has been primed for success with a surfeit of talent. Belichick has the much harder task of replacing the greatest quarter back the league has ever seen. Brady started the "argument" sitting in the pole position, while Belichicks starting position was at the back of the field.

One other thing I detest is the flouting of Belichicks record. Like Cleveland has anything to do with BB as a modern day head coach. He was in Cleveland during the 1990's. When he started there was no cap and no real free agency - ever heard of plan B? It was 1994 that both the salary cap and true free agency were adopted by the league. So from 1991 to 1993 BB was working under antiquated rules that severely limited roster building. After his one good season there, the team was sabotaged by Art Modell so he could move the team... Your oh so deep and exhaustive "analysis" omits any type of historical context, and also conveniently leaves out that those years in cleveland were his first go round in the NFL as a head coach.

I look at what he did in the first year of New England, 5-11. no good. But consider this - he was in the process of putting his pieces in play. As much as I love Bledsoe, he wasn't very good. He was not consistent and was prone to throwing interceptions at the worst time possible. But over that period, he built a team. Not just Brady and a bunch of guys. A team. A team that won. Think we beat the falcons if the defense didn't show up in the second half? Not a chance.

If you really feel the need to rip apart all the success we've had over the past 20 years, you need to let the process BB has installed here take hold and see what he builds. Otherwise you are just another "look at me and my hot take" *******...

Personally, it is my opinion that Belichick abd Brady are both responsible for the success of the Patriots. There are timeless coach/qb combinations in the league - Walsh/Montana. Noll/Bradshaw, Landry/Staubach, Lombardi/Starr and we will soon add Reid/Mahomes - Belichick/Brady stands out as the very best of them. The perfect storm of driven coach and driven player...

I think its real a sad sack **** show that "patriot fans" feel the need to tear apart what we had over the past 20 years.

yeah the debate is just getting started!! Belichick has had only 132 games without Brady for his 61-71 record ex-Brady. Let’s give him another 100 games or so and we’ll see where his record finally settles.

 

[Biffins]

Brady may have questioned the decision to bench Butler, but did anyone question his decision to not throw to a wide open James White on the strip sack by Brandon Graham? or how about his annual 2 interceptions in the super bowl?

You’re right. Any other QB would have won all 9 Super Bowls. This overrated bum only won 6!!

 

[Biffins]

It’s both. And it’s ALL the players and ALL the coaches.

If BB was worth more than Brady, he’d be getting paid more than Brady.

Q.E.D.

 

[Biffins]

It all started with money.

Bingo. And BB didn’t pay market rate after happily getting discounts years

 

[Ring 6]

If BB was worth more than Brady, he’d be getting paid more than Brady.

Q.E.D.

Yeah that’s not how it works.

 

[Tompa12]

If Cam's TD/INT stats were in the inverse Pats would be in serious WC contention.

Well, that’s basically my point. And if it was reversed, those numbers would be less than average for today’s NFL QBs. Average QB who can get 25 TDs/15 INTs and a defense currently ranked 7th that would likely be better with a better QB? You can make the case they could win a playoff game or two.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You’re right. Any other QB would have won all 9 Super Bowls. This overrated bum only won 6!!I

Yeah, I knew my comment would fly over some people's heads...

My point was that Brady makes mistakes too, just like Belichick

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bingo. And BB didn’t pay market rate after happily getting discounts years

Blame Tom for being a ****ty negotiator

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady may have questioned the decision to bench Butler, but did anyone question his decision to not throw to a wide open James White on the strip sack by Brandon Graham? or how about his annual 2 interceptions in the super bowl?

This was debated heavily on this board after the Super Bowl with myself pointing this out. This argument went on for a while.

While Brady f***ed up on that play, he did what he could keeping up in the shootout due to Bill putting together one of the worst game plans of his career. Eagles reporters said all Super Bowl week that they plan on targeting Eric Rowe (who they were familiar with) as he graded out as one of the worst CB's in the NFL that year. What does Bill do? He puts Rowe on their best WR (Jeffrey). Jeffrey set the tone early and scoring a long TD before Bill realized he f***ed up royally. Captain Obvious showed up and told Bill to put Gilmore on him. Gilmore erased him the rest of the game.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Blame Tom for being a ****ty negotiator

If you're referring to his time in NE, I agree. He could've had Kraft at his mercy, but took well below market deals. Could've had personnel say to avoid the Deion Branch fiasco.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady may have questioned the decision to bench Butler, but did anyone question his decision to not throw to a wide open James White on the strip sack by Brandon Graham? or how about his annual 2 interceptions in the super bowl?

Brady threw for 505 with 3 TD's and 0 INT's in an epic performance. They lost the game because the defense was a sieve with their starting corner on the sideline.

Do you always use lies to support your arguments?

Brady has played in 9 Super Bowls and he had 2 INT's once. In SB 49 against an all-time great Seattle defense that Brady also lit up for 328, 4 TD's and a 101.1 QBR while engineering one of his historic 4th quarter comebacks.

Brady had 1 or 0 INT's in the remaining 8 Super Bowls so you were just a little off, wouldn't you say?

You do also realize Brady led game-winning drives in each their 6 Super Bowl victories. Which probably is the single most impressive stat in all of professional sports.