Celtics trade Isaiah Thomas, Brooklyn 2018 pick & players for Kyrie Irving

[jimnance]

Uh, in what league? He's not even a top 5 point guard (even if we don't include James Harden).

Wow. You don't watch much bball I guess.

 

[Pats1989]

Why are people suggesting one title isn't enough? That's being greedy. If the Patriots lose in the AFCCG this season fans should be disappointed for a minute then cheer up the next. After all, many teams go decades without championships.

 

[Deus Irae]

You can hate the trade but the Cs weakened the conference favorite and is now the clear favorites to go to the Finals

 

[slam]

The "conference rivals don't trade with one another" thing Simmons was talking about is irrelevant since everyone in the league knows LeBron is gone after this year. It's not like these teams expect to clash in the playoffs repeatedly for the next five years. For Cleveland the trade is to save face for this year while simultaneously prepping for the future via the Brooklyn pick.

 

[primetime]

Wow. You don't watch much bball I guess.

Yeah, I do. Westbrook, Curry, and Paul are better (and Harden should we include him). Irving exists in the next tier of points. I'd take Conley, Wall, and Lowry over him too. Irving's a very good scorer but is subpar generating assists and doesn't defend all that well like Dame Lillard. He's probably a top-35 or so player in the league, but closer to the back end of that than the front. Gordon Hayward is still the best player on the Celtics even after this trade.

The advantage of Kyrie over Thomas is that the latter has peaked and will likely fall off a cliff in the next couple of years because he's nearing 30 and his game is predicated on athleticism, while Kyrie still has a few potential years of development left.

 

[IllegalContact]

I think it's a great deal for the Cs....they still have the lakers pick.....they still have 2 1st rounders next year and 3 in 2019......and they're young as hell anyway

Great scoring with Irving and heyward gives great development situation for brown and Tatum

The team still needs a big but I love what they've done here

Thomas was fun and a good guy but you're not winning anything with him....crowder is a jag ..... this is the way the league goes these days

 

[Deus Irae]

who is 30 years old with chronic hip problems and is getting a max deal after this season.

Kyrie Irving is more than a high end PG, he is much better than IT4. Any time you can get a top 5 player in the league, you pull the trigger.

Irving is the ceiling of what you could hope the Brooklyn pick becomes

When did Thomas magically age 3 years?

 

[Deus Irae]

Ainge's pyramid should already be under construction.

You shouldn't be drinking so heavily during the week.

 

[primetime]

Holy crap are there really multiple people who believe Irving is a "top 5 player in the league"

 

[Deus Irae]

This is great analysis if it were still 1996 when 'bigs' still had the ability to affect an NBA game.

Just 2 years ago, Thompson affected the hell out of the NBA finals.

 

[Ivan]

Fascinating offseason, Ainge made big moves and he's set them up to be the best team in the East if his moves pay off. If he was s right about Brown and Tatum, and either one turns into a star player then they are loaded. Imo this year's team is much better than the one that lost to Clevelan,

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think it was a pretty fair trade. Based on the Paul George and Jimmy Butler precedents for what stars are fetching this summer, it looks like we gave up a lot, but I think the reality is more that we just didn't get a steal like the Wolves and Thunder did.

In general, I'm not sure how I feel. I don't really mind giving up Crowder or Zizic, and I love IT but I didn't want us to max him next year anyway. It all comes down to the Nets pick. I probably wouldn't have made the trade just to avoid giving that up: if it falls in the top 3, this trade is going to haunt us, I think, because missing out on a talent like Doncic, Porter or (to a lesser extent) Bamba is a tough pill to swallow. If the Nets show some improvement this year and the pick falls in the 6-10 range, though, then this trade will pretty solid in hindsight.

All in all, I wouldn't call this a fleecing or a huge mistake. It's a pretty fair trade and a calculated risk, and without the benefit of hindsight telling us where the pick ultimately lands I think it's a defensible--although not great--deal. As much as I love IT, Kyrie is 3 years younger, is a better and more versatile scorer, and can get his shot no matter how good/intense the defense is so he translates better to the postseason. I dunno if I have it in me to root for a flat-earther, though.

 

[primetime]

The top 5 players in the league are LeBron, Curry, Westbrook, Durant, and Harden. Season with Kawhi Leonard, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Jimmy Butler, and Draymond Green to taste. The Celtics could have traded for Butler and did not. Kyrie is talented but far behind any of those guys.

 

[Deus Irae]

And the Warriors showed how you really need an Elite Big to win it all.

The flavor of the month is always "You don't need ..... to win". We read that same **** here, too.

Fans love to confuse "It can be done" with "It's how you do it" when it fits their team. "You can win without X" is often true, but it's because you get so good elsewhere. Golden State isn't winning because they've got no bigs. They're winning because they've got excellent overall talent at the smaller positions, and an undersized player, who's a Barkley-lite king of player, helping to minimize the impact of not having a great big.

 

[jimnance]

Yeah, I do. Westbrook, Curry, and Paul are better (and Harden should we include him). Irving exists in the next tier of points. I'd take Conley, Wall, and Lowry over him too. Irving's a very good scorer but is subpar generating assists and doesn't defend all that well like Dame Lillard. He's probably a top-35 or so player in the league, but closer to the back end of that than the front. Gordon Hayward is still the best player on the Celtics even after this trade.

The advantage of Kyrie over Thomas is that the latter has peaked and will likely fall off a cliff in the next couple of years because he's nearing 30 and his game is predicated on athleticism, while Kyrie still has a few potential years of development left.

Couldnt disagree more. Curry is nowhere close to Irving. I don't consider Westbrook a pg- he's a top 5 player but not a pg. Right now I'd take irving over Paul,due to their ages.
In no particular order, LeBron,(still easily#1), Anthony Davis, Westbrook,Leonard and Irving. That's your top 5. Irving can take over a game by himself.

 

[primetime]

I think it was a pretty fair trade. Based on the Paul George and Jimmy Butler precedents for what stars are fetching this summer, it looks like we gave up a lot, but I think the reality is more that we just didn't get a steal like the Wolves and Thunder did.

This would suggest the Celtics gave up a lot, really. Better players fetched lesser returns, and Kyrie had demanded a trade so he should have been discounted. Though George is a bit of an unfair comparison since he's an expiring and has made it clear he intends to go to LA next year.

 

[primetime]

I don't consider Westbrook a pg

Westbrook averaged 10.3 assists per game last season and was the primary ballhandler for his team. Irving averaged 5.8 assists per game last season and was the secondary ballhandler for his team.

Do you know what a point guard is

 

[BradyFTW!]

This would suggest the Celtics gave up a lot, really. Better players fetched lesser returns, and Kyrie had demanded a trade so he should have been discounted. Though George is a bit of an unfair comparison since he's an expiring and has made it clear he intends to go to LA next year.

George and Butler also wanted out, so I'm not sure their situations are a whole lot different. If you're comparing this trade to those, then we definitely didn't get as good of a deal as the Wolves and Thunder did (although I'd rather have Kyrie for the next 5 years than either of George/Butler). But I think those two deals were the anomaly: comparable stars have almost always fetched more in the past, George had significant mitigating circumstances as you mentioned, and the Butler trade I think just comes down to the Bulls having one of the worst FOs in the NBA.

 

[captain insano]

there are only 4 players still on the celtics from last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Couldnt disagree more. Curry is nowhere close to Irving. I don't consider Westbrook a pg- he's a top 5 player but not a pg. Right now I'd take irving over Paul,due to their ages.
In no particular order, LeBron,(still easily#1), Anthony Davis, Westbrook,Leonard and Irving. That's your top 5. Irving can take over a game by himself.

Actually, the numbers in Cleveland indicate that Irving couldn't get it done without LeBron.