Celtics trade Isaiah Thomas, Brooklyn 2018 pick & players for Kyrie Irving

[Deus Irae]

I'm coming up with it thru the Nets making some improvements in the offseason, have zero reason to tank, while a boatload of teams got way worse and have an extreme incentive to tank.

You're pulling it out of your ass.

 

[rochrist]

Which makes the deal even more ridiculous. Is Kyrie Irving going to stay beyond two years?

Why wouldn't he? He's reportedly enthused, and the track record here is that players who get here like it. Not to mention he might actually like playing for a real coach for a change.

 

[rochrist]

You're pulling it out of your ass.

Well, as far as I can tell, you don't even follow the NBA.

 

[primetime]

JImmy Butler is no where CLOSE to that good.

Yes he is. He's one of the league's best defenders and an efficient scorer who gets to the line better than just about anyone in the league. He generates assists about as well as Irving despite not handling the ball nearly as much.

I mean, search for "top NBA players 2017" and the first two hits have Butler in the top 10. Isaiah Thomas ranks in the top 15, and Kyrie is in the 30s. I'm not just pulling your shiny new toy's reputation out of my ass here.

And I thought this trade was fine, just to be clear!

 

[rochrist]

Yes he is. He's one of the league's best defenders and an efficient scorer who gets to the line better than just about anyone in the league. He generates assists about as well as Irving despite not handling the ball nearly as much.

I mean, search for "top NBA players 2017" and the first two hits have Butler in the top 10. Isaiah Thomas ranks in the top 15, and Kyrie is in the 30s. I'm not just pulling your shiny new toy's reputation out of my ass here.

Great. And he's done absolutely nothing to make the Bulls winners. You might have noticed their best player in the playoffs last year was freaking Rajon Rondo.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well, as far as I can tell, you don't even follow the NBA.

I follow the NBA enough to know that you're talking out of your ass.

• Brooklyn had no incentive to tank last year, yet they still finished at the league's worst team.
• Brooklyn finished 4 games behind the second worst team last year.
• Just based upon last year's standing, therefore, Brooklyn would have to pass 9 teams to get to the 10-15 range (not talking lottery vagaries, here).

It is far from a certainty that the Nets aren't worse than last year, nevermind being improved enough to leap 9 teams.

 

[PaulNEPats]

We definitely overpaid in this trade. Should've been the Lakers 1st. The other compensation was fine outside of that.

 

[supafly]

Actually, the numbers in Cleveland indicate that Irving couldn't get it done without LeBron.

4-18 since James returned, I believe.

 

[borg]

We've seen Atlanta swallow up little IT in the playoffs.
We've seen Cleveland swallow up little IT in the playoffs
We've seen Boston yank little IT out of the playoffs with a mystery "injury" that never passed the smell test.

IT was fun, IT was exciting, IT was a feel good story as we rooted for this underdog. But underdogs never win trophies in the NBA.
It was time

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

For a stud like Irving I'd trade away a pick with no problem. I can't wait to see this kid in a Celts uniform.

I'll reserve judgment on this but, for this to make sense, either IT's hip must be worse than reported and/or the Nets are much better than they look on paper.

I fully agree that Irving is an upgrade to IT but losing the Brooklyn 18 pick still sucks.

 

[captain insano]

kyrie is the best player in the trade and hes only 25. advantage celtics.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Love the swap but we gave up too much.

 

[thecore762]

I think thats a bit to give up but Kyrie is definitely a huge upgrade over Thomas, he can score, defend, and overall a better player. I liked Thomas, he made this team better, but Kyrie is just better than him.
The only thing I am concerned about is the defensive end of the ball...

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

How much better will we be w/ K.I. ?

How much of a drop of is it from K.I. to I.T.?

Or is it with LeBron?

Danny done?

 

[Kdo5]

If the current reports are true, this is the kind of stupid trade that gets GMs/team presidents fired.

Big overreaction and also wrong about it being a stupid trade.

The Cavs got a good deal, perhaps a better one than the Celts out of this trade. We shall see down the road.

But the trade is still a big positive for the Celtics in my view. IT is 29, possibly with injury concerns. He is a great player and I'll really miss him yet are we going to be in shape to win a championship while Isaiah is in his prime? No we aren't. And we don't want to give him a max deal next season either.

Crowder is a good player but his departure was helpful to make way for Hayward, Tatum and Brown.

Kyrie Irving isn't much better than Isaiah right now but he is still an upgrade. A young player with great potential. Kyrie has his chance to be premier player on a team with a great coach and strong supporting cast. If he can take it to the next level, he is easily worth that BKN pick.

The Celtics core for the foreseeable future is now set. Two All-Star players aged 25 and 27, two #3 picks with high potential, as well as Horford and solid bench players like Smart and Rozier. If we can get something good out LAL '18 we're in great shape.

I'd expect the Celtics to give the Cavs trouble in the ECF. If they don't make it to the NBA finals this year then they should be expected to the next one with players like Tatum, Brown and Smart further developed.

 

[patfanken]

sorry, but this is a stupid deal for the Celtics..

Well let me try and put some perspective on it, DB.

1. Kyrie Iriving is a better player than IT, and I LOVE IT. Who wouldn't. But the fact is that IT was rated the worst defender among point guards in the league. He will be 29 when the C's will have to give him a Max contract, and has a bad hip.

2. Irving is a much better defender than IT with the potential to be more than just average. How good a defender he will end up being will depend on Stevens.

3. Crowder is a good player, but the league is filled with guys like Crowder. BTW- Crowder was a great Stevens players. I wouldn't be surprised to see him take a step back outside of Stevens system.

4. Zizic is a BEST, a situational big man....and I'm not sure he's even that right now.

5. Then there is the Brooklyn pick.....again. First you have to recognize that there is no guarantee that it will get you a top 3 pick EVEN if Brooklyn winds up with the worst record....and they might not. They had the worst record when they drafted Brown with the #3. The C's had the worst record a couple of times and never sniffed the #1 or 2 pick.

5a. Yes next year looks like a good draft for big men, but first the draft is a crap shoot to begin with. Big men are the hardest to predict who will be great. Even if you get lucky and get the right big guy, it will take 3-4 years before he becomes a dominant player.

5b. As the game has evolved, none of the best teams have dominant big guys

5c. The C's now have to develop 3 high picks as it is. There is such a thing as having too much young talent

5d. Between the Laker/Sacremento picks and the others the C's own, they will likely own ANOTHER lottery pick or 2 over the next 2 drafts.

5e. By the time any big man pick from the 2o18 draft is ready to actually give you value (about 2021) there will be plenty of opportunities for the C's to add another big man who actually can play the game.

6. So F*ck the Brooklyn pick.

7. Think short AND long term.

Right now the C's have a legit big 3 in Horford, Haywood and Irving for 2 -3 year run. Then they can give a Max deal to Irving at 27 and have a new Big 3 in Irving, Brown, and Tatum

8. This team is good enought right now to be a final 4 team again, and young enough to keep on getting better. Better than that. It will be young and good enough to be a real go to destination for future FA's

9. BTW- I think Cleveland did the best they could in this trade. They get a great offensive point guard. They get a solid NBA forward and a POTENTIAL high draft pick in 2o18. So they will be competitive in the east for LaBron's last season, and have a few assets to start their rebuild. It was a much better job than what the INDY GM got for George

. So DB, as you can guess. I LOVE this trade. What Danny has done this off season will make the C's a contender to make the finals for the next 5+ years....and I think it can get better.

 

[BradyFTW!]

We've seen Atlanta swallow up little IT in the playoffs.
We've seen Cleveland swallow up little IT in the playoffs
We've seen Boston yank little IT out of the playoffs with a mystery "injury" that never passed the smell test.

IT was fun, IT was exciting, IT was a feel good story as we rooted for this underdog. But underdogs never win trophies in the NBA.
It was time

There's nothing mysterious about a torn labrum, and I dunno what would lead you to conclude it doesn't pass the smell test.

The trade can be justified without trashing Thomas on his way out the door and making up reasons not to like him. He was running up against a long history of undersized, athletic guards not aging well, and he was going to command a max deal that he almost certainly wouldn't justify over the life of the contract. Any sensible fan was outspokenly worried about that months ago, and won't need to change their tune today. That's enough, we don't need to delve into conspiracy theories past that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Big overreaction and also wrong about it being a stupid trade.

The Cavs got a good deal, perhaps a better one than the Celts out of this trade. We shall see down the road.

But the trade is still a big positive for the Celtics in my view. IT is 29, possibly with injury concerns. He is a great player and I'll really miss him yet are we going to be in shape to win a championship while Isaiah is in his prime? No we aren't. And we don't want to give him a max deal next season either.

Crowder is a good player but his departure was helpful to make way for Hayward, Tatum and Brown.

Kyrie Irving isn't much better than Isaiah right now but he is still an upgrade. A young player with great potential. Kyrie has his chance to be premier player on a team with a great coach and strong supporting cast. If he can take it to the next level, he is easily worth that BKN pick.

The Celtics core for the foreseeable future is now set. Two All-Star players aged 25 and 27, two #3 picks with high potential, as well as Horford and solid bench players like Smart and Rozier. If we can get something good out LAL '18 we're in great shape.

I'd expect the Celtics to give the Cavs trouble in the ECF. If they don't make it to the NBA finals this year then they should be expected to the next one with players like Tatum, Brown and Smart further developed.

Thomas was born on Feb 7, 1989, meaning he's not 29.
Crowder was a starter. Boston traded away 2 starters, as well as the potential #1 overall pick, for a guy who's little, if any, better than Thomas, and who might be worse once you add in the team aspects of things (might, might not, this is unknown).

If you had told me that the trade was a pick that had top 3 type protections built in, I could have reluctantly bought into the idea of the gamble. Simply giving the pick away, though? That was stupidity on the part of the Celtics.

 

[deroc5050]

Wtf kind of deal is this? You basically just swapped elite point guards and gave up a ton of other valuable assets in the process with nothing in return.

The only difference is slightly less defensive liability with kyrie now over Thomas but thats it.

All did we was widen the gap between us and cleveland, not close it

Nahh... We had to move Crowder because we have Tatum and Hayward... IT is now a question mark because of his hip, and we have no idea where we would land in the lottery next year. The chances of it being a top 2 pick are probably about 7%.

We've seen Atlanta swallow up little IT in the playoffs.
We've seen Cleveland swallow up little IT in the playoffs
We've seen Boston yank little IT out of the playoffs with a mystery "injury" that never passed the smell test.

IT was fun, IT was exciting, IT was a feel good story as we rooted for this underdog. But underdogs never win trophies in the NBA.
It was time

Yeah I love IT, he was very fun to watch but got shut down to many times in the playoffs. He really had trouble getting shots off when we needed them.. now thats not all of his fault.. we really had no other consistent scorer besides Al. The Celtics now have 4 premium consistent scorers. And an upgrade.

I think the trade is good for the Celtics IF Kyrie desides to sign an extension with the Celtics. If Kryie walks after 2 years.. this is a very questionable decision.

The Celtics are now neck and neck with Cleveland and maybe even better now.

I am a little torn on the trade its not a slam dunk win but it probably will help Tatum develop more quickly and we are at least a better team now than we were. But maybe not for the long term.

If you made me choose I would probably do the trade. So I am pumped for the season this is going to great.

 

[Kdo5]

If they don't get past CLE Danny should be fired

No he should not. That is stupid knee jerk talk. Danny got us all of those picks with a brilliant trade. He turned quickly the lowly post-KG/Pierce Celtics back to a respectable status and just last season a trip to the ECF. He has created a young #1 or #2 team in the East for the forseeable future with a legitimate shot at a finals appearance now. And you all want to fire the guy? Get a fricking grip.

Ainge is gambling on BKN being a better team. If he turns out to be right, which is a legitimate possibility, the Celtics win the trade.

The Celtics, if they aren't favorites to win the East this season will be better positioned than Cleveland moving forward as the Celtics core is young while the Cleveland core is aging.

Ainge is aiming to win now instead of waiting for the post IT-era with hopes that Brown/Tatum/BKN '18 could become contenders. And I'm OK with the choice he made.