By the numbers: Patricia's offense downright offensive

[upstater1]

If the conclusion is that the people running the offence and coaching our young QB are not good enough then yes I think we should make a change. Consistency is great if we are seeing a positive progression, but if we are consistently mediocre or poor what the hell good is it?

You can't build consistency and a good offense if it's like changing your underwear. Belichick knows enough about football to be the ultimate arbiter of this stuff.

Look around the league at some of the truly putrid offensive outputs

 

[venecol]

Thay had almost 500 yds of offense vs the Ravens. So the offense wasn't great after Mac and Hoyer went down and Zappe came in for the 2nd series of the game. What dod you expect? If you want to complain about an offense go become a Broncos or Colts fan....Or a Bucs fan for that matter....with all due respect, of course

First off, I'm not advocating for Patricia to get fired. That's nonsense. However, the fact remains the Pats O is #23 with an anemic 18.5 points scored per game. That's not going to cut it when our D is allowing 24.5 ppg (#22). Both of those are well below average which is reflected in the teams record. So as a Pats fan I will continue to complain about our offense. You on the other hand can continue to praise it if you so choose. Have a great day.

 

[venecol]

Actually. I expected worse. Zappe was nowhere near ready to take snaps under center in an NFL regular season game. From the beginning I thought that Hoyer should have retired. I had doubts that Strange would be anywhere near effective as a player this season. I figured Henry would be at least what he was last season. I had and have confidence in our running game. All this said. I really can't point a finger at Patricia. First off, no matter how much YOU can't stand him as O co-ord., he's not going anywhere this season. Second, Strange has settled in and gets better every game so far. Third, this O line was suspect with every player doing their job, but Wynn's fall off has zero to do with Patricia. In fact,I'd be surprised if Matt didn't pull him and relegate him to backup duty.

I expect a strong running game vs. Detroit will keep us in the game. We'll see how Patricia has prepped Zappe to step up and at least be productive in the passing game. This is a real shyt sandwich we've been handed here with Mac's injury.Let's sit back and see how Patricia approaches the next six games before we hold any lynching parties.

I agree with everything but this: "Wynn's fall off has zero to do with Patricia."

Wynn was switched to RT from the get go during OTAs. That was obviously Patricia's plan. It hasn't worked. Just like Onwenu wasn't good on the left side of the line, Wynn isn't either on the right, where he's never played before. Wynn was pretty decent on the left and Brown was good on the right. The fact they failed to notice this during TC is on the coaches. This experiment failed and it can be rectified by switching them back. So to me this is all on Patricia.

 

[crawhammer]

You geniuses don't want to double-down on how the outside zone blocking scheme will never work and how the offensive line sucks? Write Rhamondre Stevenson a letter about that.

Oh wait, maybe you want to complain about how we didn't go for it on fourth down on our own 12-yard line with seconds left, because "bad playcalling"

A lot like others here, I do think they're just stupid to go with "people related to me" as one category of possible assistant, and "people who've worked here before" as another. I think BB is in would-be god-emperor mode where he sees where he think he wants to go and he doesn't want anybody effing it up with their own opinions. Not healthy.

But no, "dump Matt Patricia" does not make an iota of sense.

Did I mention,

Shuttttt upppppppppppppppppppppppp?

First and second string QBs injured and you still take GB to overtime?

Come on now.

Miami effed us. Since God loves us, Tua will now have to stop playing.

Balmer beat us, GB squeeked by. We knew it could be a tough September. It was.

Who knows when we will get Mac back and what Zappe looks like when he's not the new toy.

But your theory is tank the season, start over, and by the way, continually roll the dice on the next guy on an ultra-short leash, and demand rings after 4 games as an OC?

No due disrespect but I've coughed up things that make more sense than this. Stop needing to urge grand strategic house-cleaning for frack's sake. Last week wasn't a win but there was a lot to like there. There certainly wasn't some gigantic flashing "fire Matt Patricia" message in that loss.

I'll try again.

Firstly, for better or for worse, Patricia isn't going anywhere, not as long as Belichick is his boss.

Secondly, these are just the facts... the offense is currently 23rd in points and 18th in yards, neither are good. Furthermore, 20th in passing and 27th in passing TDs. The offense is worse in each of those categories from last season... 6th, 15th, 14th and 15th respectively... significantly worse in points (6th -> 23rd) and passing TDs (15th -> 27th). So this thing with Patricia has taken them in the wrong direction so far. I do however expect, even with Zappe at quarterback, that all of their current rankings will improve after facing Detroit's swiss cheese defense.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I'll try again.

Firstly, for better or for worse, Patricia isn't going anywhere, not as long as Belichick is his boss.

Secondly, these are just the facts... the offense is currently 23rd in points and 18th in yards, neither are good. Furthermore, 20th in passing and 27th in passing TDs. The offense is worse in each of those categories from last season... 6th, 15th, 14th and 15th respectively... significantly worse in points (6th -> 23rd) and passing TDs (15th -> 27th). So this thing with Patricia has taken them in the wrong direction so far. I do however expect, even with Zappe at quarterback, that all of their current rankings will improve after facing Detroit's swiss cheese defense.

1. Do you believe that offensive adjustments this season have been a continuation, in general, of the 2021 offense, or a considerable install?
2. Is it common or uncommon for such a project to take time?
3. Do you believe that this has been an easy or difficult stretch of the sked to date?
4. Do you believe the injuries to the Patriots' offensive players to date have been light, normal wear and tear?

5. (The biggie): Do you thnk that, even with no offensive adjustments (not the case, by my lights); even if any such adhustments can be assumed to be instantaneous in effect; Even if this has been a very easy stretch of schedule; and even if the Patriots have lost no significant offensive skill players... again, manifestly not the case, but let's stipulate it... do you think that a judgment on an offensive coordinator's body of work is complete after four games?

I mean, try it as many times as you want. Some stuff takes time, some stuff has explanations other than "[person I saw blasted on TV somewhere or heard blasted on the radio] sucks," and some stuff, like it or not, takes patience.

Question: Were you one of our "complain about McDaniels" guys too? I forget.

 

[crawhammer]

1. Do you believe that offensive adjustments this season have been a continuation, in general, of the 2021 offense, or a considerable install?
2. Is it common or uncommon for such a project to take time?
3. Do you believe that this has been an easy or difficult stretch of the sked to date?
4. Do you believe the injuries to the Patriots' offensive players to date have been light, normal wear and tear?

I get it, you're saying we need to be patient, with the new coaches, and the new install (to whatever degree that's occurring). I'm just pointing out that numbers to date show a decline in the offense from last season... this is factual.

Regarding the schedule to date, Miami is probably better than anticipated, but I don't consider them a "difficult" opponent. Pittsburgh sucks. I'm a believer in Lamar Jackson so I'm not surprised he took that game over. Heading into the Packers game, I had the Patriots losing by 100%.

Injuries are unfortunately a big part of the NFL. Every team has injuries. Granted not all injuries are created equal and losing your starting quarterback is usually a death sentence for most teams. However, the Patriots do not have an elite quarterback and the percentage of responsibility for the team's success is less on Mac than is the case with a team that has a bonafide elite quarterback. Meaning they should be able to overcome the loss of their quarterback more easily, which I think will hold true (and may have already at Lambeau... although Mac probably converts that OT drive into a score). I expect the Patriots to go no worse than 4-2 over their next 6 games, with or without Mac.

5. (The biggie): Do you thnk that, even with no offensive adjustments (not the case, by my lights); even if any such adhustments can be assumed to be instantaneous in effect; Even if this has been a very easy stretch of schedule; and even if the Patriots have lost no significant offensive skill players... again, manifestly not the case, but let's stipulate it... do you think that a judgment on an offensive coordinator's body of work is complete after four games?

Obviously not.

Question: Were you one of our "complain about McDaniels" guys too? I forget.

No. McDaniels remaining as the OC would have been ideal for Mac (at this early stage of his career).

 

[Joker]

I agree with everything but this: "Wynn's fall off has zero to do with Patricia."

Wynn was switched to RT from the get go during OTAs. That was obviously Patricia's plan. It hasn't worked. Just like Onwenu wasn't good on the left side of the line, Wynn isn't either on the right, where he's never played before. Wynn was pretty decent on the left and Brown was good on the right. The fact they failed to notice this during TC is on the coaches. This experiment failed and it can be rectified by switching them back. So to me this is all on Patricia.

I expected a reply like this and I respect your opinion. My view stems from the fact that I have never been behind drafting a short armed, squat lineman to play LT. My bias I guess...

 

[IcyPatriot]

Anyone who has ever experienced a house or building construction.
It starts with a footing ... a big building that means the bedrock ...
A house it is a footing and upon that a foundation ...
This is no different ... just too many who think they are experts ... here and media.
To impatient for the results ... which may be great ... or good ... or not ...
It has been said ... playbook opening more and more and now with Zappe ... process held up.
But really not a problem ... competition is a great thing on a team.
But the process needs to play out ... lots of learning pains ...
This is not a sure fire Super Bowl team ... it is a let's see how high we can soar this year team.
Not good enough for the impatient or barcalounger feigning experts here and many forums.
Some of the so-called experts here ... if their prior posts are scrutinized ... would be exposed as mere fans ... not experts.

Definitely ... many comments deserve ... facepalm ... like other teams are stupid and it is easy to be smarter.
Takes so much enjoyment of the game itself away ... 1 team wins it all ... extreme difficulty being the 1.

 

[Sfpat]

Agreed. At some point the losses pile up and the season is a lost cause. Not sure why we shouldn't draw conclusions after reading/watching the same issues since late July.

but this is how you get stud talent on the cheap.

 

[203Pat]

but this is how you get stud talent on the cheap.

It just worries me that we get a top 10 pick and Bill trades out into the 20's.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Other than Bill Belichick’s personal friendship with Matt Patricia, in what way does his coaching resume qualify him to coach in the nfl, in an upper level position?

 

[WhatJustHappened]

I'm guessing that taking the ball out of our own hands with dumb turnovers is hurting our Offensive stats a bit, but hey, let's blame that on Matt.

 

[IcyPatriot]

We suck against the run ... that is not Matt ... how about a Steve ... Brian ... and Jerod thread ...

 

[Toofy]

Afc is so sloppy outside of bills, chiefs and ravens to a certain extent. So If we are touting good coaching , we should be able to win and run up with optimal QB play . So belichick has a great chance to prove detractors wrong / right this season...

 

[IcyPatriot]

Other than Bill Belichick’s personal friendship with Matt Patricia, in what way does his coaching resume qualify him to coach in the nfl, in an upper level position?

He actually has 3 ... of these.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Anyone who has ever experienced a house or building construction.
It starts with a footing ... a big building that means the bedrock ...
A house it is a footing and upon that a foundation ...
This is no different ... just too many who think they are experts ... here and media.
To impatient for the results ... which may be great ... or good ... or not ...
It has been said ... playbook opening more and more and now with Zappe ... process held up.
But really not a problem ... competition is a great thing on a team.
But the process needs to play out ... lots of learning pains ...
This is not a sure fire Super Bowl team ... it is a let's see how high we can soar this year team.
Not good enough for the impatient or barcalounger feigning experts here and many forums.
Some of the so-called experts here ... if their prior posts are scrutinized ... would be exposed as mere fans ... not experts.

Definitely ... many comments deserve ... facepalm ... like other teams are stupid and it is easy to be smarter.
Takes so much enjoyment of the game itself away ... 1 team wins it all ... extreme difficulty being the 1.

Agree just about every word, especially, "1 team wins it all," to which I'd add, "In the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie." Just because it sounds good.

 

[VrabelJr]

It's time to get rid of "it's time to get rid of" threads. Like, bring some nuance to it at least people. Show some specific play calls of his that you didn't like. Tell us how he misdiagnosed how to attack an opponent's defense.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Agreed. At some point the losses pile up and the season is a lost cause. Not sure why we shouldn't draw conclusions after reading/watching the same issues since late July.

So "we are seeing the same issues" as late July because the O-line is blocking just as badly and shambolically as in the preseason? Yes? No?
Mac Jones and Brian Hoyer were both injured in the preseason? Yes? No?

This is just not the same stuff, unless you mean final scores haven't been going our way. There is a lot of stuff, and some of it is the same. It's not that there's no validity to such complaints, it's just that what's there is out of proportion to what's claimed.

Icy did a good job saying the important part, unfortunately for the "experts" here, it is far less often appropriate to say you've got it all figured out, than it is to say "aw crap," which is generally the real sentiment. God love all you guys ready to pull all sorts of triggers. I do share the feeling of "aw crap," just, usually, not the prescriptive solutions bandied about. The details of analysis tend to not be very realistic.

 

[venecol]

1. This is a football forum for fans not experts.
2. Fans offer their opinions about their team in football forums.
3. Fans criticize & praise owners, FO, coaches, players in football forums.
4. There are many types of fans, both rational and irrational. There are old timers and Gen-Zers. There are homers and chicken littles, nervous nellies, doom & gloomers, experts & so-called experts and trolls. There are morons and idiots too.
5. This is the same throughout the league, in every forum.
6. Asking fans not to do what all fans do makes a football forum meaningless.
7.
8.
9.
10. Amen

 

[IcyPatriot]

Also .... imagine the hell of being a lifer Jete fan or 'GULP' Falcon fan.