Adam Schefter: Patriots want minimum of 1st and 4th round picks for QB Jimmy Garoppolo

[RobertWeathers]

And why would they dump Savage for Garoppolo?

Thats a better question.

For all we know they might have their next Tom Brady.

 

[patfanken]

The cost for JG won't just be the 1st and 4th round picks, it'll also be the Ostweiler-like contract demand sure to follow once it becomes clear that the team just gave up a king's ransom just to get him into their building. Without such a thing all the team gets is one year of JG's services and then he gets franchised or walks out the door. The team can let him play on his rookie contract for a season, but at the end of it he's going to either be a bust (see: Ostweiler) and thus the trade will be a bust and the GM's job is at risk, or he'll be a serviceable or better QB that gets paid franchise money.

No Bill, that's the point of trading him THIS off season. Yoiu don't have to play him that Oswieler contract for 2017, and THAT's another reason why his value is so high. Whoever trades for him, not only gets a QB who is ready to be a quality NFL QB right away, they eliminate the draft risk, AND they get to pay him ONLY around a million dollars next season. And btw, even rookies who get picked in the top 5 in the draft will earn Millions more than that.

No in this case, Bill, I'm thinking like a GM who wants to build a quality team, and to do that, you don't need an all pro QB to win, but you do need a good one. So let me ask you. What player that is coming into the NFL draft that would be less of a risk than JG.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If a team lets the fact they paid the wrong guy stop them they are idiots.

Os is not the answer. They hoped he would be but he is not. Why would you let a bad deal stop you from trying to make a good one? Worth noting though in 2018 they can cut him and only be stuck for 6m.

The answer is simple in cap terms. carry both this year. Cut Os and franchise JAG if you want an extra years look at him.

People forget that teams can easily franchise JAG in 2018 if they want another look at him without long term risk. That is attractive.

I agree with you but I highly doubt they can handle the cap hit AND have Jimmy on the roster paid as a starter.

 

[BobDigital]

I agree with you but I highly doubt they can handle the cap hit AND have Jimmy on the roster paid as a starter.

They don't have to though. Pay Jimmy what he makes this year. Next year cut Os. Then make your long term contract or franchise him or don't do either depending. They will not need to pay 2 guys big money.

 

[Ring 6]

I didn't say stats I said on field sample size. I never said you judge a guy with a stat sheet. Look at the field and how they play. In their limited field time JAG > Savage and it is not close.

Well that simply isn't correct. Savage brought his team back from a deep hole to win and then won his only start, and played reasonably well despite a dearth of talent around him. It surely is close.

When i said "meaningless" it was admittedly hyperbole but the ability to actually show you can do it in a game trumps everything else. In the end it is about how well you play on game day. Should he trade for JAG? I think he should strongly consider it as should any team not happy with their QB play.

They have both shown about equally in 3 years. Trade a #1 so they can compete for the job? Nah.

I never claim JAG was the next Brady or certain. No QB is certain. This is guess work. Do you homework and take the best guess. No JAG is not the only QB. There are many QBs and most suck. If there were 32 good QB options we would not need to have this discussion.

Why give up on the guy you have developed for a shot in the dark then?

Also he did look better than Os ever did in the time. Os never had 6 quality quarters of play to that level imo. Will JAG keep it up? No idea. The odds say more likely than not he will fail to be a franchise QB or even decent game manager ala Alex Smith. Yes you analyze the QB and the games are the most important thing to analyze.

You think Jimmy G played better than he did.

We don't know if it is a mistake or not. Savage has not showed half of what JAG has on the field.

More hyperbole? They both played about the same amount and won 2 games.

That is why you make the move if you make it. To say Savage = JAG is just not true to this point. Looking at their play it is not close in the limited sample we have.

Again, you act as if something other than what happened has happened.

I never said they have to do anything. Maybe Savage suddenly gets it next year and really steps up. Maybe JAG is traded and doesn't pan out. I don't know and don't claim to. I would say though the fact they had Savage and traded for Os means they were not confident in his ability to start and do well this year. Obviously they didn't believe in him to start the year. Maybe they do now but i would doubt they would invest so much money in Os if they felt they had a franchise guy in the making with savage.

And they may have done the same thing with an unproven Garopollo sitting on the bench.
These players are very close so far in their career. I don't get where you see a major difference.

 

[Ring 6]

Thats a better question.

For all we know they might have their next Tom Brady.

There were a lot of people on this board who wanted Savage to be picked as the successor.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

All it takes is one crazy GM to make the deal but a 1st for Jimmy seems like way too much for a QB with limited playing time (and tape) in the pros. To put into perspective, Matt Cassell netted a 2nd rounder after leading the Pats to a respectable record and played almost the whole season. Back to back 400 yard passing games, etc. The pats also threw in Mike Vrabel with the trade.

Can we stop using Cassel as a yardstick here?

(A) He had already signed the franchise tag, so he was guaranteed $14.6M no matter what. Moreover, whichever team signed him would need $14.6M in cap space to make the trade.

(B) The tag put the Pats hard up against the cap. Pretty much everyone knew this, and was waiting for the Pats to become desperate.

(C) Garoppolo had more TD passes his senior year than Cassel did attempts in four years at USC, and was literally trained to emulate Brady.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They don't have to though. Pay Jimmy what he makes this year. Next year cut Os. Then make your long term contract or franchise him or don't do either depending. They will not need to pay 2 guys big money.

Financially they can make it happen but I'd be surprised Camp Jimmy would be pleased

 

[Ring 6]

Financially they can make it happen but I'd be surprised Camp Jimmy would be pleased

Why would he have a choice? If they hand him a starting job, he should jump up and down, thank them, and happily accept the salary he is under contract for.

 

[BKapatsfan]

Jimmy G to the Browns for the Eagles pick and some future picks.

Calling it now.

 

[Bill Lee]

No Bill, that's the point of trading him THIS off season. Yoiu don't have to play him that Oswieler contract for 2017, and THAT's another reason why his value is so high. Whoever trades for him, not only gets a QB who is ready to be a quality NFL QB right away, they eliminate the draft risk, AND they get to pay him ONLY around a million dollars next season. And btw, even rookies who get picked in the top 5 in the draft will earn Millions more than that.

While you don't have to pay him right away, not doing so seems strange. You've just given up huge assets to get him to your team, yet you aren't willing to make a commitment. It puts you right on to the Kirk Cousins trajectory unless of course he has a very strong season and then you just pay the man. Every other scenario is problematic. It puts a lot of pressure on JG to get it right his first full-time NFL season, and depending on what team makes such a move, it just might not be feasible for him to perform well enough for the one good scenario to happen.

No in this case, Bill, I'm thinking like a GM who wants to build a quality team, and to do that, you don't need an all pro QB to win, but you do need a good one. So let me ask you. What player that is coming into the NFL draft that would be less of a risk than JG.

The right question to ask is what two college players (1st + 4th) plus free agent(s) (gotten via the money you'd direct towards JG sooner if not later) would be less risky than JG, and that's an impossible question to answer without knowing the team's circumstances a lot better.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

so who would you all take with a top 10 pick, if we land one for JG?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why would he have a choice? If they hand him a starting job, he should jump up and down, thank them, and happily accept the salary he is under contract for.

I'm not saying he does have a choice. I'm saying after trading for him, if Team X did not sign him an extension for $$$$$ he'd be disappointed.

 

[Love The Drake]

Mccaffrey

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not saying he does have a choice. I'm saying after trading for him, if Team X did not sign him an extension for $$$$$ he'd be disappointed.

I don't really think so. I think he would relish the chance to play and earn his next contract. I don't know why he would expect to get his contract torn up before playing a down.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't really think so. I think he would relish the chance to play and earn his next contract. I don't know why he would expect to get his contract torn up before playing a down.

Depends on how you look at it.

If I'm Jimmy, I can certainly view it your way. You want a chance to play every Sunday, run a team and produce. I get that.

If I'm Jimmy's agent, if a team is giving up a 1st and a 4th for Jimmy, that means he should be paid as a starter. Why should he happy settling for $1.1m in 2017 and playing 16 games in a brand new situation when he should be making $15m per season? What if he gets hurt? His client's stock is pretty high now. Financially he might be better off staying in NE another year, maybe Tom can't go all 16 games, he kicks ass again, hit FA or get franchised and now hes Matt Cassell part deux and paid buku bucks.

If he is traded and Team X does not ante up then you have a Osweiler situation all over again where DEN dragged their feet and he walked and this time Team X has nothing to so for it except a comp pick in 2019.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If I'm Jimmy's agent, if a team is giving up a 1st and a 4th for Jimmy, that means he should be paid as a starter. Why should he happy settling for $1.1m in 2017 and playing 16 games in a brand new situation when he should be making $15m per season? What if he gets hurt? My client's stock is pretty high now. Financially I might be better off staying in NE another year, maybe Tom can't go all 16 games, I kick ass again, hit FA or get franchised and now I'm Matt Cassell part deux

Garoppolo, Edelman, and Brady all have the same agent.

 

[Ring 6]

Depends on how you look at it.

If I'm Jimmy, I can certainly view it your way. You want a chance to play every Sunday, run a team and produce. I get that.

If I'm Jimmy's agent, if a team is giving up a 1st and a 4th for Jimmy, that means he should be paid as a starter. Why should he happy settling for $1.1m in 2017 and playing 16 games in a brand new situation when he should be making $15m per season? What if he gets hurt? My client's stock is pretty high now. Financially I might be better off staying in NE another year, maybe Tom can't go all 16 games, I kick ass again, hit FA or get franchised and now I'm Matt Cassell part deux

If he is traded and Team X does not ante up then you have a Osweiler situation all over again where DEN dragged their feet and he walked and this time Team X has nothing to so for it except a comp pick in 2019.

I'm not sure what your point is.
If it's thatbits too bad for garapolo that he has a year left on his contract ok. If it's that he has a right to get paid more because he's playing I don't see why. If it's that he should hold out if he gets traded I disagree.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Garoppolo, Edelman, and Brady all have the same agent.

Yes.

 

[Ring 6]

Depends on how you look at it.

If I'm Jimmy, I can certainly view it your way. You want a chance to play every Sunday, run a team and produce. I get that.

If I'm Jimmy's agent, if a team is giving up a 1st and a 4th for Jimmy, that means he should be paid as a starter. Why should he happy settling for $1.1m in 2017 and playing 16 games in a brand new situation when he should be making $15m per season? What if he gets hurt? His client's stock is pretty high now. Financially he might be better off staying in NE another year, maybe Tom can't go all 16 games, he kicks ass again, hit FA or get franchised and now hes Matt Cassell part deux and paid buku bucks.

If he is traded and Team X does not ante up then you have a Osweiler situation all over again where DEN dragged their feet and he walked and this time Team X has nothing to so for it except a comp pick in 2019.

As far as the last part they could franchise him.