PostGame Thread 2023 PostGame Thread: Week 13 - Patriots Lose to Chargers 6-0

[PatsFan2]

Ryland was all ready to Do His Job today.

Chad WideLefft.

 

[*ChungFu*]

I start with the presumption that the Kraft's and their GM will hire a competent NFL coach and put together a competent and unified coaching staff. Why wouldn't he want to continue to increase the value of the team?

Will the GM get 3-4 year from Kraft? Sure. Why wouldn't he? Coaches are on short leashes, but 3 years seems reasonable, since the Offense is a total rebuild.

OF COURSE, there needs to be a Plan A, Plan B and Plan C in dealing with deficiency at QB. It can't just be to draft a 1st found QB and wait three years to see if it works and then try again. We need to have our top QB prospect (probably in the first few picks in the draft) plus a veteran to start 2024, and perhaps even 2025. AND THEN, there needs to be a developmental prospect as our #3. emergency QB. Many teams have needed to use their #3). Not having even ONE qualified backup for 2023 was and is malfeasance.

I don't think it's a matter of desire. Of course the Krafts want a winning and efficient team. The issue is supply. Was Kraft a visionary when scooping BB? Until recently the opinion was YES. Can he repeat that vision and good fortune? I'm not confident. There isn't much out there in my opinion. I know the game is evolving and it may take gambling on a radical offensive mind to turn things around, but where does that leave the defense? Not to mention, the NFL is tired of success in New England and that is no small matter.

 

[upstater1]

I basically just told about stuff about players prior to 2001. So your played out rebuttal of I started watching after 2001 doesn’t work buddy.

And you still can’t answer the question regarding Bledsoe. You still have to move the ball and scores some points which Tom did.

Figures.

The fact you think the Bledsoe argument means anything here is absurd. Look at the games. Look at what the defense did. Brady managed the games. That's a credit to him. But look at the playoffs. Look at the season. Look at the dang Super Bowl when the Greatest Show on Turf was muzzled. Heck we scored one offensive touchdown that game!

This is one of the lamest takes ever. The fact you wouldn't credit Belchick for 2001 is just preposterous.

And by the way, I wrote "I'm starting to think you hadn't watched..." Because it is absurd in the extreme that someone who did watch would hold the position you hold.

 

[upstater1]

This just sounds like typical Breer guessing to me.

In all likelihood Kraft will want a pick for Bill, Bill won’t want his new team to lose their first rounder. They’ll settle on a 2nd and call it a day.

I don't understand the logic.

Bill, I want you to leave.
OK.
But I want to trade you for a pick.
No.

You can't want someone to stop being your coach AND then hold onto his rights"

Does anyone have a single example of this happening?

Let alone to the GOAT?

Kraft would be mocked and ridiculed for ages.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

This is moronic in the extreme.

Brady was not the great QB he later became in that year. He was managed, watch the Super Bowl for heaven's sake. It was a defensive clinic. Brady later became great but that 2001 team lived on its defensive prowess.

I don't know when you started watching the Patriots but I'm beginning to suspect it was after 2001 if you can't even acknowledge what the strengths of that team were.

and who was behind why the defense was the reason for the Super bowl win in 36?..It was Bill Parcells who actually knew how to draft both offense and defense and many of his defensive players were a part of that team,Bill got the keys to the Rolls Royce on defense thanks to Parcells incredible build on a defense that was laughable before he became HC

 

[TheRainMaker]

The fact you think the Bledsoe argument means anything here is absurd. Look at the games. Look at what the defense did. Brady managed the games. That's a credit to him. But look at the playoffs. Look at the season. Look at the dang Super Bowl when the Greatest Show on Turf was muzzled. Heck we scored one offensive touchdown that game!

This is one of the lamest takes ever. The fact you wouldn't credit Belchick for 2001 is just preposterous.

And by the way, I wrote "I'm starting to think you hadn't watched..." Because it is absurd in the extreme that someone who did watch would hold the position you hold.

Competent QB play is the argument dude! if you don’t want to answer the question, then there’s no reason to continue this.

Could Bledsoe have done what Brady did in being a competent QB with that supporting cast on offense? Yes or No? Stop avoiding the question.

And by the way, I never mentioned Brady was all world the moment he entered the field. He was competent, kept the chains moving, limited mistakes and made timely throws.

Here’s a homework assignment for you. Tell me what Ron Jaworkski says about Tom Brady during the first Rams game on how he differentiates from other QB’s in the game. This was echoed by many analysts throughout the season. Many posters have mentioned it on here before.

 

[TheRainMaker]

and who was behind why the defense was the reason for the Super bowl win in 36?..It was Bill Parcells who actually knew how to draft both offense and defense and many of his defensive players were a part of that team,Bill got the keys to the Rolls Royce on defense thanks to Parcells incredible build on a defense that was laughable before he became HC

Those were some drafts in both 1995 and 1996.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

310.5 ypg (8th)
3.2 ypc (1st)
21.2 ppg (15th)
89.6 passer rating (19th)

Despite playing a harder schedule (hurts, tua 2x, allen, herbert) and starting two liabilities at CB the defense has played admirability when they'd could have quit at any point being tied to a historically bad offense. There is a lot to work to do offensively but the defense will be pretty good with judon & gonzalez back. The pats can be competitive next year by surrounding a rookie qb with an average supporting cast IMO.

Marcus Jones back too. A DB, a fattie, and a LB would be nice. Lots of cap space. Go offense in the draft.

 

[Ross12]

I don't understand the logic.

Bill, I want you to leave.
OK.
But I want to trade you for a pick.
No.

You can't want someone to stop being your coach AND then hold onto his rights"

Does anyone have a single example of this happening?

Let alone to the GOAT?

Kraft would be mocked and ridiculed for ages.

It’s simple. Bill doesn’t want to be “fired”, it looks bad on his record. He would rather appear to leave on his own terms, so to speak.

The trade makes it looks like both sides are good with the split. The alternatives is he resigns, but then can’t sign elsewhere and has no leverage, and Kraft can trade him for whatever he wants.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Those were some drafts in both 1995 and 1996

Parcells is was and will forever be the reason why the Patriots began the dynasty because of his incredible drafting skills that Belichick can only dream about with some exceptions along the way while Brady was THE Reason of success,not this bum - Belichick had some good picks over the years but even a blind squirel gets a nut now and then - Belichick is an embarrassment to the league as a general managing decision maker on offense

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

It’s simple. Bill doesn’t want to be “fired”, it looks bad on his record. He would rather appear to leave on his own terms, so to speak.

The trade makes it looks like both sides are good with the split. The alternatives is he resigns, but then can’t sign elsewhere and has no leverage, and Kraft can trade him for whatever he wants.

What team wants a coach who refuses to not be the guy who not only coaches but destroys offenses as a pathetic GM with ****ty builds 85% of the time? - A team is going to have to have no GM who takes him because Belichick is WAY too arrogant to not be the one who does it all.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Parcells is was and will forever be the reason why the Patriots began the dynasty because of his incredible drafting skills that Belichick can only dream about with some exceptions along the way while Brady was THE Reason of success,not this bum - Belichick had some good picks over the years but even a blind squirel gets a nut now and then - Belichick is an embarrassment to the league as a general managing decision maker on offense

Parcells had an amazing eye for talent.

 

[Patjew]

Why do the terrible posters have so much more presence during the tough times? Such incredible negativity… not only about now, but also the past. Somehow trying to erase the good things that BB and the team accomplished.

****ing losers that enjoy ranting about losing.

I’m not afraid to @ but I’m tired and don’t have the energy to list them all. But @PATRIOTSFANINPA is one. @TheRainMaker another. @sb1 another. That @FCB02062 is a ****ing idiot. Total bandwagoning losers.

Trying to get banned but I mean it. I love @Ian and some posters and the energy of this place sucks. I wonder how some of you operate in the real world.

 

[Ross12]

People keep talking about Higgins, and I like Higgins, but if it were up to me I would be signing Mike Evans. He still looks great and can do everything. Evans + Bourne + Douglas could be really good.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

What team wants a coach who refuses to not be the guy who not only coaches but destroys offenses as a pathetic GM with ****ty builds 85% of the time? - A team is going to have to have no GM who is dumb enough to take him cause Belichick is WAY too arrogant to not be the one who does it all.

Why do the terrible posters have so much more presence during the tough times? Such incredible negativity… not only about now, but also the past. Somehow trying to erase the good things that BB and the team accomplished.

****ing losers that enjoy ranting about losing.

I’m not afraid to @ but I’m tired and don’t have the energy to list them all. But @PATRIOTSFANINPA is one. @TheRainMaker another. @sb1 another. That @FCB02062 is a ****ing idiot. Total bandwagoning losers.

Trying to get banned but I mean it. I love @Ian and some posters and the energy of this place sucks. I wonder how some of you operate in the real world.

Bandwagon my ass - I've been a fan before you were even a freaking embryo, you know nothing. -this team was going to go down but the way its gone to being the worst offense since 1938 is simply not what we have seen in the past - even the 1990 Patriots are ahead in scoring for the season than this garbage this waste of a head coach put on the field. -if you dont like my posts use ignore clown...enuff said and move on and i'll keep posting what I feel whether you like it or not,that what its about - get your head out of Belichick's a** - if you want positivity right now go join the 49ers fan club,im not going anywhere

 

[Ian]

Trying to get banned but I mean it. I love @Ian and some posters and the energy of this place sucks. I wonder how some of you operate in the real world.

Not going to happen.

I am encouraging the use of the "Mute" - specifically the "Forum Mute." That was a lot of work to put together, and I feel like if you put anyone on that, you'll find that all of a sudden whoever you have under that category essentially "disappears." I've heard from a few people who have implemented it and have been thankful for it, so I would certainly encourage people to try it out.

 

[lancerman]

This just sounds like typical Breer guessing to me.

In all likelihood Kraft will want a pick for Bill, Bill won’t want his new team to lose their first rounder. They’ll settle on a 2nd and call it a day.

Why would Bill accept that? He has all the leverage in this scenario. This isn't Payton wasting away out of the league with the Saints controlling his rights and him desperately wanting to coach Denver. This is Bill being kicked off the Patriots.

First off, there is no guarantee that the team Bill wants to coach even will consider giving up draft capital. Second, Bill can veto any trade to a team he doesn't want by simply saying "yeah there is no chance in hell I will coach there". Also why would Bill leave money on the table if he can help it. He can just make any team that would consider the trade balk because they can't trust that Bill will coach there.

I don't think people realize how rare coaching trades are in the NFL. Since Bill came here, there have been 4 coaching trades. All were infamous situations. Gruden to the Bucs, Edwards to the Chiefs, Arians to the Bucaneers, and Payton to the Broncos. And the Arians trade was basically a 6th round pick for a formality to make the Cardinals happy so everyone could move on.

Don't expect some good value to come out of Belichick leaving. He has no incentive to want to have his new team lose draft capital. And frankly, a coach who is in his 70's that just had a mediocre stretch and seems to be trending down isn't going to demand a huge return. I get that his name is Bill Belichick, but this isn't Kraft trading for the guy he thinks will lead his team for years to come. This is some team hoping Bill is just good enough that if the talent is already tee'd up he can coach them over the hump. This isn't a longterm play for anybody.

 

[lancerman]

I don't think it's a matter of desire. Of course the Krafts want a winning and efficient team. The issue is supply. Was Kraft a visionary when scooping BB? Until recently the opinion was YES. Can he repeat that vision and good fortune? I'm not confident. There isn't much out there in my opinion. I know the game is evolving and it may take gambling on a radical offensive mind to turn things around, but where does that leave the defense? Not to mention, the NFL is tired of success in New England and that is no small matter.

We also have to consider where Kraft is at as a person. When Kraft hired Bill it was still decently early in his run at ownership and he was a sort of a student who was studying the NFL and trying to emulate how good franchises operated at the time. He already had experience with Bill in the organization and always sort of wanted him to be the guy. He was willing to try things out like Carroll and later was willing to give Bill the control he wanted.

Kraft in 2023/2024 is an 82 year old man who already achieved his dream and spent most of the last quarter of a century knowing one way of life for his franchise. He's not the same 50 something who finally made his vision of owning a team happen and was trying to find the model for success. He had a model that he's been comfortable with and might not be willing to deviate from how he and the team operated for all these years hoping he hits lightning in a bottle again. It's a huge difference for him to get a seperate GM and coach, have a different model of how the team functions, focus on rushing for explosive offensive players that come at a preemium, handling the salary cap the way modern teams do by manipulating it and pushing out money instead of the "lose them a year early and try to find value". That's a huge shift for someone who is in his 80's and thinks he's been sitting on the golden way.

 

[FCB02062]

so tickets were so low it warranted a boston.com article. Just wait till the NYJ game on 1/7, team could be 2-14 going into that one. Krafty Bob will have to come up w some cool promo or giveaway to get fannies in the seats to buy his $16 beers and $14 cheeseburgers.
Ticket prices hit new low for Patriots’ home game against Chargers

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Not going to happen.

I am encouraging the use of the "Mute" - specifically the "Forum Mute." That was a lot of work to put together, and I feel like if you put anyone on that, you'll find that all of a sudden whoever you have under that category essentially "disappears." I've heard from a few people who have implemented it and have been thankful for it, so I would certainly encourage people to try it out.

I don't know why people just dont use the mute or ignore - fans are upset what they put on the field and rightly so and free to express it whether its agreed or not,its certainly justifiable with 13 points scored in 3 games - ignoring what we have seen the past 2 years even after 20 years of glory is to keep the frustration hidden and i am not like that - didnt expect this team to remain competitive year after year after Brady left but this is simply JV offense at this point thus the anger of how it got this far this fast should be expected