2017-18 LB Group evolution

[maineman209]

Hicks is also, you know, under contract to the Eagles through the end of next season.

Avery Williamson is the only stud linebacker in free agency for whom I'd be willing to pony up. Otherwise you have Van Noy-level replacement players who don't do much other than tweak what's already there. Thankfully, it's a good draft for off-ball linebackers. Hightower's health can't be counted upon, unfortunately, but getting him back will make a difference until he inevitably goes on IR again.

At this point, Williamson is likely to cost double (or even triple) what Bradham would, and the Pats simply wouldn't be able to afford him regardless.

The Titans have almost $50M in cap space, so I'm doubtful they let him walk.

Bradham may be "only" Van Noy level, but that's still a significant upgrade over what the Pats were able to field at LB this past season. I'd think of it as Bradham replacing Harris.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

There’s been a lot of talk about James Harrison returning next year. While he stepped in and filled a much needed role, he is from all accounts fulfilling his reputation as a disruptive and unhinged individual.

Posting a pic of his AK47 on Instagram in January digs up memories of another Patriot player. Plus, he’s too old to warrant the risk. Say bye bye...

 

[maineman209]

So, you would change our defensive scheme and depend on a rookie NT and on Rivers on the edge?

I see that as more of an, "if-then" proposition.

The Pats often mix 4-3/1-gap and 3-4/2-gap principles on the same play, and they have a lot of the personnel that would be required to emphasize either scheme as the situation/gameplan dictates.

So, IF the Pats could acquire a younger, more capable version of Branch to play NT, then they might be able to emphasize more of the 3-4 aspects of their hybrid scheme.

 

[primetime]

There’s been a lot of talk about James Harrison returning next year. While he stepped in and filled a much needed role, he is from all accounts fulfilling his reputation as a disruptive and unhinged individual.

Posting a selfie with his AK47 in January digs up memories of another Patriot player. Plus, he’s too old to warrant the risk. Say bye bye...

He was fine as a pure pass rusher but teams targeted and ran him over in the run game. The Blount touchdown in the Super Bowl was entirely his fault. He got completely swallowed up and gave up the edge and the rest was history.

He's not visible in this screenshot because it's grainy, but he's behind the lineman and Malcom Brown is actually outside of him as Blount heads towards the edge.

 

[maineman209]

There’s been a lot of talk about James Harrison returning next year. While he stepped in and filled a much needed role, he is from all accounts fulfilling his reputation as a disruptive and unhinged individual.

Posting a selfie with his AK47 in January digs up memories of another Patriot player. Plus, he’s too old to warrant the risk. Say bye bye...

What "risk"?

The Pats sign him to the 90-man off-season/Camp roster for a $1M salary + $500k signing bonus.

If, by cutdowns, they've come up with a (healthy), younger player who's as good as Harrison, they cut Harrison and they're out the $500k.

If they don't come up with such a player (or he tears an ACL in Camp), they've got Harrison under contract as for (cheap) insurance.

So, again, what risk?

 

[maineman209]

He was fine as a pure pass rusher but teams targeted and ran him over in the run game. The Blount touchdown in the Super Bowl was entirely his fault. He got completely swallowed up and gave up the edge and the rest was history.

He's not visible in this screenshot because it's grainy, but he's behind the lineman and Malcom Brown is actually outside of him as Blount heads towards the edge.

So, Harrison gets beat on a couple plays in one game against arguably the best OL in the NFL, but all the other plays he made in his other three games setting the edge and making tackles don't count?

Sure, it was THE SUPERBOWL!!111, but it was still only one damn game.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

What "risk"?

So, again, what risk?

He is an A-hole, and that brings disruption and negativity to the team: allegedly rude to everyone in the locker room, not a leader willing to “coach up” the young guys. He is not the type that will accept a “role” on the team.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Good points and you're probably closer to the reality than I am.

For a

He is an A-hole, and that brings disruption and negativity to the team: allegedly rude to everyone in the locker room, not a leader willing to “coach up” the young guys. He is not the type that will accept a “role” on the team.

He's a monster Tom seems to like him that should count for something

 

[mgteich]

we don't have an LB that can cover......

Marquise Flowers might be good free agent target.

 

[Sciz]

Hicks is also, you know, under contract to the Eagles through the end of next season.

Avery Williamson is the only stud linebacker in free agency for whom I'd be willing to pony up. Otherwise you have Van Noy-level replacement players who don't do much other than tweak what's already there. Thankfully, it's a good draft for off-ball linebackers. Hightower's health can't be counted upon, unfortunately, but getting him back will make a difference until he inevitably goes on IR again.

Is Williamson the guy the Patriots want? He was really good against the run this season, but removed from the field on 170 of the Titans' 214 third downs. It's especially troubling because the Titans were awful at covering running backs. The gap in receiving yards allowed to running backs from Tennessee (most) to New England (second most) is the same as from the Patriots to the league median. Williamson spent some time contributing to that, and even worse, a lot of time being on the sideline because they didn't think he'd be able to help. That sounds like the exact opposite of what most people here have been looking for in a linebacker addition.

Edit: For anybody who was curious (like me), PFR says those 214 third downs were split into 49 0-3 yards to go, 59 4-6 yards, 63 7-10 yards, and 43 11+ yards. Very oversimplified, he was probably off the field on third downs with 4 or more yards needed for a first down.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Marquise Flowers might be good free agent target.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

 

[Chris Stevenson]

He is an A-hole, and that brings disruption and negativity to the team: allegedly rude to everyone in the locker room, not a leader willing to “coach up” the young guys. He is not the type that will accept a “role” on the team.

That info was debunked with a photo of Harrison teaching the young guys things in practice.

It was a lie.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

He was fine as a pure pass rusher but teams targeted and ran him over in the run game. The Blount touchdown in the Super Bowl was entirely his fault. He got completely swallowed up and gave up the edge and the rest was history.

He's not visible in this screenshot because it's grainy, but he's behind the lineman and Malcom Brown is actually outside of him as Blount heads towards the edge.

Ok, so he misread one play and lost his contain. It happens. What time of the game was that? Maybe he was gambling and trying to make a play?

Brown, Guy, Valentine, Butler are fine on the inside but a depth upgrade wouldn't hurt

we need linebackers........the 2 decent ones are injury prone, and we don't have anyone who can cover to save their lives.......scheme doesn't matter if your LB's suck

I had no idea the best MLB in the AFC who was instrumental with 2 rings and his presence missed for a loss in another, is only "decent".

Watch the NFL much?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Agree that Bradham is more likely to be affordable for the Pats than not.

Hicks is an interesting proposition. He seems to present more upside, but also more risk. He'd probably cost less for 2018 than Bradham ($1.9M versus, say, $3M), but he'd also cost some draft capital to obtain, since he's still under contract to the Eagles.

BTW - Great point about guys with NFL experience having more value since the developmental rate of rookies has effectively been reduced by the CBA.

I don't think a guy with a SB ring, now likely concerned with only getting top dollar at age 29 (for 2018), on the backside of his career entering that danger zone of a career past age 30, is a good option at all, especially compared to an "in-house" Marquis Flowers.

It's amazing how people float names out there we've never, ever seen anyone mention here before, and now since that player helped his team win a SB, it's this wildly coveted FA option.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

The original poster put a LOT of work into his post as have several others. However so much can and will change.

 

[Deus Irae]

We definitely need to spend money at OT, RB and corner. Yes, we could spend money on LB, or not.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. If you're talking about getting the band back together as "spending money", then sure, but keeping your own players in some areas doesn't mean you've solved the problems in others. If you're talking about spending beyond Solder, Lewis, and Burkhead, then no.

Unlike OT and RB, even if the LB corps is 100%, it's not good enough, and needs to be addressed. As for corner, Butler's absence will obviously leave a hole that will need to be filled.

 

[Deus Irae]

There’s been a lot of talk about James Harrison returning next year. While he stepped in and filled a much needed role, he is from all accounts fulfilling his reputation as a disruptive and unhinged individual.

Posting a pic of his AK47 on Instagram in January digs up memories of another Patriot player. Plus, he’s too old to warrant the risk. Say bye bye...

I sincerely hope, for your sake, that you're not so unhinged as to think an Instagram picture of a legal weapon is reason to get rid of a player.

 

[IllegalContact]

We definitely need to spend money at OT, RB and corner. Yes, we could spend money on LB, or not.

LB is the weakest unit on the team
never really 'spent money' on RB, so not sure why you mention it
Solder is the answer at OT as long as Brady is QB
Already spending plenty on the secondary, so unless you're planning on redoing mccourty, the budget is already there.......draft or a 1 year prove it deal on someone

I would think that after watching this team for as long as you have, you would understand the importance to a quality LB group........or not

 

[IllegalContact]

Marquise Flowers might be good free agent target.

you obviously have a much lower bar when it comes to the 'ability to cover'......he's athletic, but the dude is out of place half the time.....at least johnathan freeny would be heading in the right direction or actually get there to miss the tackle

he was just the annual rent-a-jag...Mingo, Ayers, Casillas

the expectation was to have Collins and Mayo with Hightower...........didn't work out so they didn't bother to replace them with anyone of any consequence......Van Noy is ok....Hightower has played one full season since he got here.....the team's biggest defensive problem is LB and it's not even close

 

[IllegalContact]

I sincerely hope, for your sake, that you're not so unhinged as to think an Instagram picture of a legal weapon is reason to get rid of a player.

I just think when it comes to a full season, Harrison will be situational at best