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2017-18 LB Group evolution


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A disaster? I think the idea that Roberts was physically in Hightower's part of the field, is what you are referring to.

When your D is allowing an average of 11.87 points per game before even MORE injuries hit, I'd say "disaster" is wildly inaccurate of a word choice.

Roberts has no rage. Hightower lacks range, too, but what he has is the IQ and experience.

Van Noy is very good, underrated and will be better with Hightower there.

1. Hightower
2. Van Noy
3. Harrison (if he resigns)
4. Flowers (if he resigns)

I think this is a good group, especially in a base 3-4 set as an example.

Flower's speed can help Hightower at MLB.

That group lacks speed which is what the defense needs more than anything.
 
Flowers has speed he should be back but let's get some more speed there.
I wish we had Atlanta's linebackers
 
collectively, our LBs suck.......worst unit on the team by far

we have 2 decent ones (Hightower and Van Noy) both are injury prone

the rest could all be replaced by rookies and they won't be any worse off

not one of them is worth a damned in coverage

every ounce of athleticism evaporated the moment they dumped collins........you will not succeed without athletic LB's

draft Hercules Ma'taafa and Leighton Vander Esch
 
Flowers has speed he should be back but let's get some more speed there.
I wish we had Atlanta's linebackers

conceptually, we are not a default 4-3 team. bb wants it all if possible to be able to have the d versatile.

if they can add another mcclellanish/flowers speed guy in the draft to also prep for chung’s departure (yes, i know chung is a safety) so they add depth and speed, yes.

i see eric lee, rivers, etc as more olb guys than mlb guys
 
Flowers has speed he should be back but let's get some more speed there.
I wish we had Atlanta's linebackers
That doesn't solve the main problem people are trying to solve. The Falcons allowed 814 receiving yards to running backs this season (4th highest), less than 2 yards per game better than the Patriots' 844 (2nd highest). Over the past two seasons combined (aka since drafting Deion Jones and De'Vondre Campbell), the Falcons lead the league in receptions, receiving yards, and receiving touchdowns by opposing running backs.
 
My question is how are they on third down conversions on D?
 
conceptually, we are not a default 4-3 team. bb wants it all if possible to be able to have the d versatile.

if they can add another mcclellanish/flowers speed guy in the draft to also prep for chung’s departure (yes, i know chung is a safety) so they add depth and speed, yes.

i see eric lee, rivers, etc as more olb guys than mlb guys

Lee and Rivers are edge guys. More Ninko, Sheard.

Hightower plays everywhere.

Van Noy and Flowers are good pieces. I’d still like to see an upgrade or 2 in this position group though. There’s some talent in this draft to do it.
 
Uhh, he’s a pretty good player that may be available & we have a need at the position. That’s about it....

He's also old, fat and happy. No thanks. Get it in the draft, under the rookie cap.

Signing a 30+ year old LB for "speed", makes no sense.
 
Let's focus this a little more:

One UFA LB to be acquired (or one traded for) _______?
.... must be able to fit the Pats' cap space (after paying Solder +/- $11M).
One LB draftee in the first four picks __________?

Who ya got for these two slots?

I'm throwing this out there for discussion purposes. (Great op btw)

As you know I'm thinking 3-4 all the way this season and I also look at the LB as OLB/DE plus ILB.

If you agree with that I see Hightower, Trey Flowers, Rivers and possibly KVN as OLB/DE's. Wise seems more of a pure DE so I don't include him.

So I would draft for a NT because I see that as a way to help solidify our LB corp. Vita Vea or Tim Settle types although I realize that according to most draft charts Vea will be long gone by the time the Pats get to pick.

Again, Rivers is really the interesting player in all of that to me.
 
Lee and Rivers are edge guys. More Ninko, Sheard.

Hightower plays everywhere.

Van Noy and Flowers are good pieces. I’d still like to see an upgrade or 2 in this position group though. There’s some talent in this draft to do it.

That's the beauty of the 3-4. Rivers/Trey Flowers would be the OLB/DE's. A very versatile personnel grouping that can show various fronts. 4-3, 3-4 and even 5-2. But all of that requires a dominating NT.

Ninko had Wilfork and Sheard had Branch (the good version).
 
He's also old, fat and happy. No thanks. Get it in the draft, under the rookie cap.

Signing a 30+ year old LB for "speed", makes no sense.
You sound silly. Leave your emotions out of it. Check the facts. No one said he was a great player, but he’s a solid vet that can contribute. Plus, BB & staff are familiar with him since he’s been a division rival in the past. Since when is 28 old??? I’m 28 lol.

Nigel Bradham
 
You sound silly. Leave your emotions out of it. Check the facts. No one said he was a great player, but he’s a solid vet that can contribute. Plus, BB & staff are familiar with him since he’s been a division rival in the past. Since when is 28 old??? I’m 28 lol.

Nigel Bradham

He is 29 next year. You want some trendy fa with a ring on his finger looking for the highest dollar, coming in here? That is what crappy teams do.

Moving forward, flowers is the better fa investment for numerous reasons.
 
That's the beauty of the 3-4. Rivers/Trey Flowers would be the OLB/DE's. A very versatile personnel grouping that can show various fronts. 4-3, 3-4 and even 5-2. But all of that requires a dominating NT.

Ninko had Wilfork and Sheard had Branch (the good version).

That is true, but i just can’t picture flowers dropping into zone. I still think rivers is more of a subrusher/specialist type.
 
The LB corps needs an overhaul, not a tweak. But, with the cap being what it is, and the need at a couple of other critical spots, we'll probably see some form of patchwork again.
 
The LB corps needs an overhaul, not a tweak. But, with the cap being what it is, and the need at a couple of other critical spots, we'll probably see some form of patchwork again.

Yes, hightower, as arguably the best mlb in the afc, and van noy would easily start and be as good as any olb in the conference in such a complex defense, are really mediocre players.

A major “overhaul” is needed. Lol

It is called being healthy vs not. Did you watch the team win the sb last year or still in the coma?
 
That is true, but i just can’t picture flowers dropping into zone. I still think rivers is more of a subrusher/specialist type.

I view Rivers as a Ninko replacement possibility but that's some tough shoes to fill. He does have the athleticism for it but am not sure if he has the mind or instincts for it. I don't think we'll know if he does or not for awhile either.

Flowers into zone is a match up question. Which I agree with somewhat but am not worried about big picture wise.

My big picture is that the defense needs to compliment the offense. That's how I'm looking at it. If we're talking about creating a monster defense that dominates the game then I would approach it differently but we're not.

Disclaimer: I am only throwing out my views for discussion purposes.
 
Interesting topic.

I would start my opinion with the observation that the NFL is continuing to marginalize the LB position much like it has done at the FB position for the last 20 years. We already have a heavy investment in one LB and that is because at 270 he not only can be a beast run stopper, he can play outside at OLB and/or DE as well. That being said, any FA investments at that position should be kept at a minimum.

MFlowers is a very interesting decision. He did literally NOTHING on the regular defense for the first 4 years of his career before he was thrust into the DE here and did reasonably well. No question he has the speed everyone is clamoring for in this thread. The question is whether Flowers is a late bloomer who is ready to .explode as a defensive stalwart, or was he a product of careful manipulation from the coaching staff which covered the flaws that made him a career STer before he got here.

I think BB knows the answer to that question and we will find out what HE thinks when FA occurs and how hard he goes after him. I'm sure Patricia will be a suitor as well. In the meantime, we can speculate the hell out it. ;) BTW- I'm with those who want to keep him.

Hightower and KVN are two quality LB's who have shown a ton of flexibility. In an age where nickel and dime defenses are the norm, having these 2 guys as your starting point is a comforting fact.

I agree that Rivers is a more likely going to be an OLB more than a DE would normally get me excited. He looked like an explosive athlete who could be something in 3 or 4 years before he was hurt. Common wisdom says that it really takes 2 years to get back to 100% after an ACL, and that goes double for a speed and explosion athlete. So for 2018, I would have very low expectations for Rivers. Play ST's get some reps on situational D's and get valuable experience playing at this level. Remember he was in a 1AA program to start with, so while he got the mental experience last year, he still hasn't gotten actual football reps.

Roberts took on a heavy load last season, and while he didn't light up the league by any means, he didn't suck either. He was tasked as being the primary run stopper on early downs and stopping the run was NOT an issue during the 2nd half of the season He WILL have to improve if he wants to stay in NE past his rookie contract and it would help he was more productive on ST's. Right now he's a decent piece to the puzzle, who, if he improves could be more than that.

McClellan and Harris are goners and will add more cap room when they are gone (about $6MM IIRC) I suggest we spend that money on other positions

.As for the draft. I'd keep looking for those really fast LB/SS types. I'm going to be looking closely at the one-handed kid who is looking to run in the 4.4 range. I think he could be had at the bottom end of the draft and might add the kind of speed we want.

As for the lack of hand, I would remind people that there was a time where people played with a forearm shiver rather than hand placement techniques (including myself) Sure picks might be an issue, but how many do any LB's get now? If you are looking at speed with player we actually have a shot at getting he's the one. (even if I can't remember his name. ;) )
 
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