DRAFT 2024 2nd Round Pick - WR Ja'Lynn Polk

[Huckleberry1]

BB always collaborated with his scouts and personnel people. Kraft stated things changed in 2021, you saying "Bill had final say" pales in relation to the guy signing the checks saying it changed.

Wolf is responsible for the decisions being made under his control if the organization, Belichick was responsible for the picks made under his control if the organization. Claiming Wolf was responsible for the picks made when Belichick was in control, without a shred of proof to back it up s complete ********. Get back to me when you can support your argument with some facts.

 

[Huckleberry1]

None of this is ever factual... people don't really come out after the fact and say these things.

But we've seen a couple articles out there, one by Callahan saying Bill wanted Jakobi over JuJu, and another saying he wanted Davis Mills in the 3rd over Mac Jones.

Just because media make claims it in no way means those claims are true, and the idea that Wolf was overruling Belichick, with nothing to support it, is ciompletely bogus. The person in charge of the organization gets the credit and the blame. That was Belichick, and now it’s Wolf.

 

[upstater1]

Just because media make claims it in no way means those claims are true, and the idea that Wolf was overruling Belichick, with nothing to support it, is ciompletely bogus. The person in charge of the organization gets the credit and the blame. That was Belichick, and now it’s Wolf.

It didn't say he overruled Belichick. It said Belichick was in favor of going after Jakobi but was convinced otherwise.

Again, this isn't a defense of Belichick. Instead, it's looking at the current leadership who were the personnel guys at the end of Belichick's coaching stint in New England.

It also tracks in that these guys are into analytics and JuJu had an analytics edge over Jakobi.

As for media reports and whether they're factual, this is 99% of the discussion on this board.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Then Kraft was a liar when he said they've changed and that Belichick would have to defer to others more?

We don't know what more means. We only know Belichick can't be like the scouts and know the ins and outs of every player.

Are you super confident that Tyquan Thornton wasn't a Wolf special? That Belichick just went along with the personnel guys when we took JuJu over Jakobi? When we took Mac Jones, my antenna went up as soon as Belichick repeated "Are we sure? a couple of times right before they took him, almost as though there was mixed feeling in the room.

I take your point that Belichick's question was maybe of the same variety of "Speak now or forever hold your peace..." but the fact that he floated it out there was a test to those who might've felt pretty strongly in the negative about the pick.

I’m “ super confident” that Belichick was a control freak who always had the final say on football decisions. I agree that Kraft wanted Belichick to be more collaborative, but I don’t believe Belichick was ever overruled by his staff or scouts. And my basic point is that whatever is said in deliberations about picks and signings is that the person at the top of the football decisions bears the credit and blame for them. And that goes for Belichick and Wolf. And I guarantee that if Maye sucks, and the team still sucks 3-4 years from now that I won’t be trying to shift the blame to Groh, or Kraft, or anyone else. Accountability comes with responsibility, and Wolf is now responsible for their personnel. What he’s not responsible for, as far as I know, is Mayo’s coaching, as the Kraft’s made that decision, and unless Wolf is given control over the head coaching position he’s not responsible for him. However he still has to give him the tools to succeed.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It didn't say he overruled Belichick. It said Belichick was in favor of going after Jakobi but was convinced otherwise.

Again, this isn't a defense of Belichick. Instead, it's looking at the current leadership who were the personnel guys at the end of Belichick's coaching stint in New England.

It also tracks in that these guys are into analytics and JuJu had an analytics edge over Jakobi.

As for media reports and whether they're factual, this is 99% of the discussion on this board.

Upstater, I have always been a Belichick supporter, and I have no problem with people defending him, but he’s also one of the most obstinate people I have ever seen in my life, and I just don’t see him deferring to his staff on anything if he didn’t agree with it. And I believe he’s responsible for the state of the team as it was handed over to Wolf. That’s both the good and the bad. He left them in good cap shape, and with a very good defense, but he also left them with a really poor offense.

As far as the media and board discussions I can honestly say that I haven’t listened to or read Boston media since about 2015, so it plays no part in anything that I have to say.

 

[Wozzy]

Wolf is responsible for the decisions being made under his control if the organization, Belichick was responsible for the picks made under his control if the organization. Claiming Wolf was responsible for the picks made when Belichick was in control, without a shred of proof to back it up s complete ********. Get back to me when you can support your argument with some facts.

I think it was a collaboration… which when Bob took the draft away from Bill was supposed to be a panacea. Keep Bill the coach but put someone in charge of personnel. It got us Mac. Yay.

 

[archstanton543]

So anyway...Polk. Hopefully he'll help the offense this year.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

This is complete and utter ********. Belichick made the final decisions on all draft picks , period.

BB went and scouted Tyquan Taylor? Nope. Sure BB made the decisions based on the scouting reports. Who made the faulty scouting evaluations?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That's an interesting tidbit right there about the 9ers. For all the talk about how we should have taken Deebo instead of Harry, the 9ers were prepared to make the exact same mistake.

The 9ers traded the world to pick Trey Lance at #3 overall. Who thinks the 9ers are draft savants?

 

[Huckleberry1]

BB went and scouted Tyquan Taylor? Nope. Sure BB made the decisions based on the scouting reports. Who made the faulty scouting evaluations?

Every person in charge of drafting listens to scouting reports, but the scouts aren’t responsible for the draft pick, the person in charge of personnel is responsible for the choice. Belichick gave Wolf credit for making the deal that got them Barmore, but Belichick was still the person who signed off on that deal, so he gets credit for that choice. Belichick made the Tyquan Thornton pick, so up until now he gets the blame for that pick, and if Thornton somehow turns into a star receiver he still gets the credit for picking him. It doesn’t matter if it’s Brady, Gronk, Dominique Easely, or Aaron Dobson, the person who makes the final call is accountable for it, good or bad.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I think it was a collaboration… which when Bob took the draft away from Bill was supposed to be a panacea. Keep Bill the coach but put someone in charge of personnel. It got us Mac. Yay.

Wozzy, respect both your and Upstaters football takes, I just disagree on this. To me the guy in charge is ultimately responsible for the picks. And if their scouts are giving them bad advice they are still responsible because they hired them and then listened to them. I’m guilty of having defended some of Belichick’s worst picks, and his drafting overall, but I also give him the credit for the Brady pick, when his haters want to claim Rehbein picked him. Yes, Rehbein touted Brady highly, but Belichick made the pick, and kept him as a 4th QB, which he only did that one time. So to me being in charge means you take full accountability for everything you are in charge of, be it good or bad.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Every person in charge of drafting listens to scouting reports, but the scouts aren’t responsible for the draft pick, the person in charge of personnel is responsible for the choice. Belichick gave Wolf credit for making the deal that got them Barmore, but Belichick was still the person who signed off on that deal, so he gets credit for that choice. Belichick made the Tyquan Thornton pick, so up until now he gets the blame for that pick, and if Thornton somehow turns into a star receiver he still gets the credit for picking him. It doesn’t matter if it’s Brady, Gronk, Dominique Easely, or Aaron Dobson, the person who makes the final call is accountable for it, good or bad.

Yes, we know that point. You have made it before.

Looking forward most Pats fans want to win. In order to win it helps to draft starters in the league. If we continue with poor drafts because the same people doing the evaluations continue to do the evaluations, our draft success rate may not improve. It looks to me as if the same people who made the evaluations previously are still in charge. Sure BB will not be making the call, but will mean an improvement or not?

There are a bunch of BB haters who think our whole draft strategy has changed by removing BB, but it does not look like a lot has changed to me. Maye was an obvious pick, but after that I do not think the 2024 draft was impressive. Do you think there has been a change without BB making the picks?

 

[Huckleberry1]

Yes, we know that point. You have made it before.

Looking forward most Pats fans want to win. In order to win it helps to draft starters in the league. If we continue with poor drafts because the same people doing the evaluations continue to do the evaluations, our draft success rate may not improve. It looks to me as if the same people who made the evaluations previously are still in charge. Sure BB will not be making the call, but will mean an improvement or not?

There are a bunch of BB haters who think our whole draft strategy has changed by removing BB, but it does not look like a lot has changed to me. Maye was an obvious pick, but after that I do not think the 2024 draft was impressive. Do you think there has been a change without BB making the picks?

Yes, I think there’s a big change. I think Wolf is going to pick better athletes who are better at their positions, as opposed to team captains who can play multiple positions with an emphasis on special teams. And I don’t think Belichick would have drafted Maye, I think he would have traded down for more picks, ensuring that they still wouldn’t have resolved QB for years to come.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yes, I think there’s a big change. I think Wolf is going to pick better athletes who are better at their positions, as opposed to team captains who can play multiple positions with an emphasis on special teams. And I don’t think Belichick would have drafted Maye, I think he would have traded down for more picks, ensuring that they still wouldn’t have resolved QB for years to come.

Thanks. What better athletes did we pick in 2024? Thornton and Strong from the 2022 draft are amazing athletes. Gonzo and White from the 2023 draft are amazing athletes. I do not see any athletes comparable in the 2024 draft. What am I missing?

There were some amazing FA athletes in 2024. We did not sign any of them.

I am not about slogans because I prefer results. What athletes, not hype, has Wolf signed in 2024.

 

[PatsFan2]

Thanks. What better athletes did we pick in 2024? Thornton and Strong from the 2022 draft are amazing athletes. Gonzo and White from the 2023 draft are amazing athletes. I do not see any athletes comparable in the 2024 draft. What am I missing?

There were some amazing FA athletes in 2024. We did not sign any of them.

I am not about slogans because I prefer results. What athletes, not hype, has Wolf signed in 2024.

So Mayo and Wolf are going have to win a SB to win you over alrighty then.

 

[PatsFan2]

Thanks. What better athletes did we pick in 2024? Thornton and Strong from the 2022 draft are amazing athletes. Gonzo and White from the 2023 draft are amazing athletes. I do not see any athletes comparable in the 2024 draft. What am I missing?

There were some amazing FA athletes in 2024. We did not sign any of them.

I am not about slogans because I prefer results. What athletes, not hype, has Wolf signed in 2024.

Smoke or drink much??

 

[Wozzy]

Wozzy, respect both your and Upstaters football takes, I just disagree on this. To me the guy in charge is ultimately responsible for the picks. And if their scouts are giving them bad advice they are still responsible because they hired them and then listened to them. I’m guilty of having defended some of Belichick’s worst picks, and his drafting overall, but I also give him the credit for the Brady pick, when his haters want to claim Rehbein picked him. Yes, Rehbein touted Brady highly, but Belichick made the pick, and kept him as a 4th QB, which he only did that one time. So to me being in charge means you take full accountability for everything you are in charge of, be it good or bad.

You're in charge until your boss, the guy that signs the checks, says you're not.

If it's a collaboration, then it's no longer one man.

 

[upstater1]

Upstater, I have always been a Belichick supporter, and I have no problem with people defending him, but he’s also one of the most obstinate people I have ever seen in my life, and I just don’t see him deferring to his staff on anything if he didn’t agree with it. And I believe he’s responsible for the state of the team as it was handed over to Wolf. That’s both the good and the bad. He left them in good cap shape, and with a very good defense, but he also left them with a really poor offense.

As far as the media and board discussions I can honestly say that I haven’t listened to or read Boston media since about 2015, so it plays no part in anything that I have to say.

I mean, we can do this over and over again, I suppose.

I've had my say in the past.

It's really simple. Before 2020 we were in win NOW mode and were not concerned with the future of the team. All the personnel decisions pointed to this, from trading away draft picks, to the salary cap management, loading all the money into 2020, not to mention the 4 draft picks lost in Deflategate etc.

We knew it was the end of the road for Brady and in the NFL you don't win without a decent QB.

I don't think the post 2020 drafts were at all bad. I think they were either decent or good. I'd say the team was doing the things to rebuild and even bringing in high-priced FAs. We just resigned several players from that draft class in 2020, and one player so far from 2021; we also resigned 3 key FAs from that 2021 class.

As for the offense, we spent 16 picks on it in the last 3 drafts, only 11 on defense.

BUT people need to remember we were just as bad on defense as on offense just 2 years ago. We lost 6 starters from that team, and they were all old and slow.

I see what happened as a rebuild. Was drafting poor in 2015-2019? Yes. But I'd argue it was that by design, from picking late after constantly winning to trading away assets for instant success and for losing picks in defaltegate.

 

[PatsFan2]

I mean, we can do this over and over again, I suppose.

I've had my say in the past.

It's really simple. Before 2020 we were in win NOW mode and were not concerned with the future of the team. All the personnel decisions pointed to this, from trading away draft picks, to the salary cap management, loading all the money into 2020, not to mention the 4 draft picks lost in Deflategate etc.

We knew it was the end of the road for Brady and in the NFL you don't win without a decent QB.

I don't think the post 2020 drafts were at all bad. I think they were either decent or good. I'd say the team was doing the things to rebuild and even bringing in high-priced FAs. We just resigned several players from that draft class in 2020, and one player so far from 2021; we also resigned 3 key FAs from that 2021 class.

As for the offense, we spent 16 picks on it in the last 3 drafts, only 11 on defense.

BUT people need to remember we were just as bad on defense as on offense just 2 years ago. We lost 6 starters from that team, and they were all old and slow.

I see what happened as a rebuild. Was drafting poor in 2015-2019? Yes. But I'd argue it was that by design, from picking late after constantly winning to trading away assets for instant success and for losing picks in defaltegate.

Name someone good on Offense??

 

[upstater1]

Name someone good on Offense??

I'll ignore that this is a nonsensical response to what I wrote...

But if the players aren't any good, why did we resign K Bourne, M Onwenu, Hunter Henry, D Andrews? You would think we'd just let them go if they weren't good, but instead they were signed to lucrative contracts.

I'd throw in a few more like Rham Stevenson and Demario Douglas.

I'd also say there's a lot of young talent particularly on the OL that we don't know enough about yet.