Belichick’s Trade Value.

[PATS16N0]

Dude, you’re telling us what would have happened to multi-verse Brady and then telling him he’s dealing in hypotheticals
lmao

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

In your hypotheticals,

I’ll just stop you there since you’ll continue to miss the point about hypotheticals.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I am looking at past articles (2004, 2005 specifically) where Tom Brady is no worse than the third best rated QB. Manning was usually one. McNabb/Brady were flipping between two and three. I can't find anything from 2003.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I am looking at past articles (2004, 2005 specifically) where Tom Brady is no worse than the third best rated QB. Manning was usually one. McNabb/Brady were flipping between two and three. I can't find anything from 2003.

That's an accurate national consensus. In New England it was Brady > Manning. Nationally it was Winning vs. Stats. But virtually everywhere those two dominated the best quarterback discussions. That started in late 2003. Brady was well regarded in 2001 and 2002, but as with any QB few people were going to conclude he's an all-time great after just two years of play. But other than idiot haters from rival teams, no serious person called him a game manager. There was just a lot of mystique about the Patriots and no one could confidently assert at the time what was making it all work.

 

[1960Pats]

I'd like to know who that fan was.. LOL because wasn’t it a patriots scout that noticed Brady at Michigan? Part of some of the old guys when Bill first took over? However being buried on the depth chart at the 19th pick.. he had to show something that he made the roster, and made the team backing up Drew. Absolutely agree with the entitled spoiled brats Eli and Payton.

I don't remember which posters said it. It was a long time ago and they might have been trolling.

**** Rehbein was the QB coach who was pushing for Brady. He died before Brady took over and never got to see his prediction to his wife come true, that in 20 years everyone would know Brady's name.

I never realized just how entitled the Mannings are until I saw it all in action. Funny too because Archie blew chunks as a QB. It all started with placing PEDton in an all expansion division of 4 teams and Eli getting to decide where he was going to play. And today the NYFL has them doing separate broadcasts of games. You'd never know how slimy they are unless you looked closely.

 

[50-yard-line]

That's an accurate national consensus. In New England it was Brady > Manning. Nationally it was Winning vs. Stats. But virtually everywhere those two dominated the best quarterback discussions. That started in late 2003. Brady was well regarded in 2001 and 2002, but as with any QB few people were going to conclude he's an all-time great after just two years of play. But other than idiot haters from rival teams, no serious person called him a game manager. There was just a lot of mystique about the Patriots and no one could confidently assert at the time what was making it all work.

I don't know why you're so aggravated by my posts, to be honest. I'm not really disagreeing with the truth of Brady, as I was pointing out the perception of Brady.

From 2009, I just read a Bleacher Report article where the writer is tired of Brady being called a "game manager" or a "system quarterback" - because a lot of people, and not just irrational haters, were still saying it.

You can still find articles claiming Brady was the beneficiary of great teams a GOAT coach and a system. They're wrong, but denying their existence is denying reality.

Here's a great read: Tom Brady's Storied Career, As Told Through His Madden Ratings regarding the rise of Brady's star, and a fairly accurate one.

In most things, timing and luck matter as much as anything in getting a chance. Once you get that chance, what happens after that is (mostly) up to you.

 

[1960Pats]

I am looking at past articles (2004, 2005 specifically) where Tom Brady is no worse than the third best rated QB. Manning was usually one. McNabb/Brady were flipping between two and three. I can't find anything from 2003.

Funny you should mention 2003. I just watched a replay of the 2003 Pats game in Indy. I had forgotten how badly the team was coached but still came out on top because of the defense.

The Pats had a 4 point lead (after giving up a much bigger lead) with 3:23 left in the game and had the ball on the 28. Indy had only 1 TO left. The first play by the Pats was a pass that resulted in a penalty on Indy, which moved the ball to the 33 and the clock to 3:18. That's when I thought to myself, great, they can run the clock way down to the 2 minute stop and force Indy to use their last TO.

But no, the Pats go pass, pass, pass (once with 5 wide) and are forced to punt with 3 minutes left, meaning that the Pats pass happy bs took less than 20 seconds and Indy kept their last TO. There was also an easy INT that was dropped by Indy.

Because of that mismanagement, the Pats defense was on the field for about a dozen red zone attempts by PEDton in the last two minutes, including 6 or 8 from close to the goal line. If it wasn't for the defense, especially Willie McGinest, the Pats lose that game and the top seed to Indy.

 

[1960Pats]

Actually he was. There was Brady vs Manning debates every time they went head to head in their early years beating his teams 5 straight times. Tom had 3 rings by 2004 and had the most rings of any QB currently in the NFL by his 4th year as a starter. To think Tom was just some random dude during those years either has a really bad memory or just flat out being disingenuous.

The media was really getting on Manning and the Colts because they kept losing to Brady and the Pats. The rivalry got very heated and took a turn by 2005 when the Colts poured it on the Pats on MNF.

Boy did Brady end that "debate" and he did it in the best place, on the field.

The treatment of Brady by the NYFL compared to the Manning clan is incredible. I don't remember Brady saying or doing a wrong thing in 20 years, yet that's who the NYFL went after with a trumped up charge. Meanwhile, you have PEDton coming to the league after sticking his genitals in the face of a female trainer and laughing about it with pops in a book, and little brother Eli taking game worn helmets that were supposed to go to charity and giving the real ones to collectors. Not to mention PEDton's use of PEDs, and when caught he has the man who sold them to him threatened and then says they were for his wife.

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't remember which posters said it. It was a long time ago and they might have been trolling.

**** Rehbein was the QB coach who was pushing for Brady. He died before Brady took over and never got to see his prediction to his wife come true, that in 20 years everyone would know Brady's name.

I never realized just how entitled the Mannings are until I saw it all in action. Funny too because Archie blew chunks as a QB. It all started with placing PEDton in an all expansion division of 4 teams and Eli getting to decide where he was going to play. And today the NYFL has them doing separate broadcasts of games. You'd never know how slimy they are unless you looked closely.

Yes! Rehbein. That was the person RIP. Thanks for that information. As we were discussing. BB had all the right people and pieces to have lasting success early on. Being 2-8 with the guys he had on the roster and staff is much, much different than the expansion team we have to watch the rest of the season. I noticed that too how snooty, and obnoxious the Mannings are you can just tell they were entitled, spoiled brats groin up. Yeah Archie every time I saw clips of him he was throwing Picks and getting sacks. Just like Eli.

 

[gobesmug]

Seriously, wtf is your problem?

Aside from shallow thinking, I mean.

In your hypotheticals, you are talking about first round picks - those guys aren’t picked with any expectation of being back-ups for any length of time. Can you say the same about Brady? Of course not. He might have been a UDFA pickup. In every great success story, there is an element of luck and timing, and the only people who don’t get that have never experienced it.

To point 2, credit Belichick after Bledsoe got hurt. Doesn’t change a thing about anything I said. Brady got the call and made good on it. Had he gone to the Colts (note the proper capitalization you inane twit), unless Manning got hurt, which he didn’t for like a dozen plus years, he wouldn’t have seen the field through his rookie deal. If that hurts your feelings, you’ve got deeper problems.

Jonnu Smith, by the way, is having the kind of year he should have had here.

And after you take that much-needed reading comprehension course, reread what I said, which never offered my opinion of Brady. After his performance in the first SB, there’s no one I would have rather had.

And the worst thing Kraft ever did was let Brady leave. Even if his play had fallen off a cliff, he should never have worn a different uniform (from the organization’s point of view).

Now, use the ignore button.

And if Brady had been drafted by the Steelers he might have won 4 straight Superbowls to start his career.

That early 2000 Steelers team was a QB away from being a major dynasty.

Coweher took Kordell Stewart in 2001 to the AFC championship game and in 2002 to the Divisional game with Tommy Maddox a career JAG back up QB.

When they got Ben Roethlisberger in 2004 they went 15-1 and lost in the AFC championship game against Brady.

Hypothetically the Steelers win the superbowl from 2001 to 2004 easily as their biggest rival, the Patriots are still a non playoff team after Belicheck is fired after having wasted Bledsoe's final years.

How do you like Hypotheticals now?

 

[50-yard-line]

And if Brady had been drafted by the Steelers he might have won 4 straight Superbowls to start his career.

That early 2000 Steelers team was a QB away from being a major dynasty.

Coweher took Kordell Stewart in 2001 to the AFC championship game and in 2002 to the Divisional game with Tommy Maddox a career JAG back up QB.

When they got Ben Roethlisberger in 2004 they went 15-1 and lost in the AFC championship game against Brady.

Hypothetically the Steelers win the superbowl from 2001 to 2004 easily as their biggest rival, the Patriots are still a non playoff team after Belicheck is fired after having wasted Bledsoe's final years.

How do you like Hypotheticals now?

Of course. And I don't disagree at all with what you said.

I really don't know why this is so hard to understand...

The whole point of my initial post here is pretty simple: (easily) the position in any of the big 4 sports where circumstance is most critical to getting a shot is QB in the NFL. Injury is always there for all athletes, of course, but for QBs in particular, and especially QBs drafted late, there's no guarantee you're getting much of a chance.

A great college BB, Hockey, Baseball, or Football player will get on a pro team, most likely, of course. In all those sports and in all positions other than QB, that player will get a chance to go out and play, and if that player outperforms his peers in the minor leagues (other than NFL), he'll get tot he Show. Outshoot, outskate, outhit, outpitch, play more.
That's not true, necessarily, of QB. Circumstance matters - getting a chance isn't a given unless you dominated in college, where you'd be drafted by a QB-needy team.

 

[Calhoun44]

How far back in this thread do I have to go back to see what people think about BB's trade value?

 

[Boomer B]

Been thinking this as well.

Chargers, Giants, Bears, Commanders.
If we get a bidding war going we could get a second.

There’s no bidding war. Bill will be able to pick where he goes. Bill holds all the cards.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Of course. And I don't disagree at all with what you said.

I really don't know why this is so hard to understand...

The whole point of my initial post here is pretty simple: (easily) the position in any of the big 4 sports where circumstance is most critical to getting a shot is QB in the NFL. Injury is always there for all athletes, of course, but for QBs in particular, and especially QBs drafted late, there's no guarantee you're getting much of a chance.

A great college BB, Hockey, Baseball, or Football player will get on a pro team, most likely, of course. In all those sports and in all positions other than QB, that player will get a chance to go out and play, and if that player outperforms his peers in the minor leagues (other than NFL), he'll get tot he Show. Outshoot, outskate, outhit, outpitch, play more.
That's not true, necessarily, of QB. Circumstance matters - getting a chance isn't a given unless you dominated in college, where you'd be drafted by a QB-needy team.

Of course, but we've seen many low round QBs get chances. Look at Taylor Heinicke, Josh Dobbs, etc.

 

[gobesmug]

Of course. And I don't disagree at all with what you said.

I really don't know why this is so hard to understand...

The whole point of my initial post here is pretty simple: (easily) the position in any of the big 4 sports where circumstance is most critical to getting a shot is QB in the NFL. Injury is always there for all athletes, of course, but for QBs in particular, and especially QBs drafted late, there's no guarantee you're getting much of a chance.

A great college BB, Hockey, Baseball, or Football player will get on a pro team, most likely, of course. In all those sports and in all positions other than QB, that player will get a chance to go out and play, and if that player outperforms his peers in the minor leagues (other than NFL), he'll get tot he Show. Outshoot, outskate, outhit, outpitch, play more.
That's not true, necessarily, of QB. Circumstance matters - getting a chance isn't a given unless you dominated in college, where you'd be drafted by a QB-needy team.

I get what you are saying.

A QB drafted in the first RD is guaranteed at least a shot in the starting unit. They go into training camp getting the first team practice and most of the focus from the coaching staff.

I don't think that means a low or undrafted QB doesn't have a shot because QBs taken low have gone onto to being the starting QB, but admittedly most QBs taken low that I can think of took over for the injured starting QB.

Brady took over for Bledsoe, Purdy took over once Trey Lance and Jimmy G went down. Kurt Warner took over for the injured Trent Green and Marc Bulger replace Warner when he got hurt.

Prescott in the 4th rdwasn't even the backup, it took Kellen Moore getting hurt, the Cowboys failed to at trying to trade for Josh McCown at back up and Prescott was only giving the starting job when Romo went down.

Goes to show that maybe other back up QBs could have been great if they had been given the chance.

 

[Triumph]

How far back in this thread do I have to go back to see what people think about BB's trade value?

BB is not being traded.

We do not know for positive who wanted Corky Jones. Some rumors point to Kraft

 

[50-yard-line]

I get what you are saying.

A QB drafted in the first RD is guaranteed at least a shot in the starting unit. They go into training camp getting the first team practice and most of the focus from the coaching staff.

I don't think that means a low or undrafted QB doesn't have a shot because QBs taken low have gone onto to being the starting QB, but admittedly most QBs taken low that I can think of took over for the injured starting QB.

Brady took over for Bledsoe, Purdy took over once Trey Lance and Jimmy G went down. Kurt Warner took over for the injured Trent Green and Marc Bulger replace Warner when he got hurt.

Prescott in the 4th rdwasn't even the backup, it took Kellen Moore getting hurt, the Cowboys failed to at trying to trade for Josh McCown at back up and Prescott was only giving the starting job when Romo went down.

Goes to show that maybe other back up QBs could have been great if they had been given the chance.

Thank you. That’s exactly what I was getting at. It’s not a knock on Brady.

He had some good fortune and a smart enough coaching staff to give him his shot. He never gave the ball back.

 

[PATS16N0]

Next you’ll be saying “the most accomplished quarterback ever doesn’t mean the best.”

 

[50-yard-line]

Next you’ll be saying “the most accomplished quarterback ever doesn’t mean the best.”

Try to quit being stupid.

 

[sb1]

Next you’ll be saying “the most accomplished quarterback ever doesn’t mean the best.”

There should be a cure for Timmyitis. Or is it Showtimeitis now. lol