Reid vs BB at developing QBs

[Ian]

Brady's Super Bowl championship with Bruce Arians really strengthens an argument that Brady could have won multiple championships with another head coach. I don't feel like I have to put a number on it but the number likely would be higher when pared with whoever you or I consider to be the better head coaches respectively.

I've said it before, the Patriots should have won more than 6 Super Bowls. The defense gagged against Eli twice (although the officials also screwed them in 42) and Bill completely botched 2015 and SB 52.

I don't think Bill's a bum, I know in the overall picture he's a great head coach and he especially gets credit for SB's 36 and 53, but I know this though, Belichick would have won 0 Super Bowls with Bledsoe, and he hasn't won one, or even come close, with every other quarterback not named Brady.

But does Brady win six elsewhere? Because that one question tells you that Belichick absolutely mattered in Brady’s overall GOAT status. If he won 3, he’d be lumped into Manning/Roethlisberger/Rodgers/Mahomes, with Mahomes having a shot to surpass him.

 

[crawhammer]

But does Brady win six elsewhere?

We're putting Brady on another team? Or we're keeping him in New England with a different head coach?

Because that one question tells you that Belichick absolutely mattered in Brady’s overall GOAT status. If he won 3, he’d be lumped into Manning/Roethlisberger/Rodgers/Mahomes, with Mahomes having a shot to surpass him.

Well, you've got me there, because I believe Belichick absolutely mattered in Brady's overall GOAT status, but you're setting the bar really low. Like, of course Belichick mattered, to whatever degree is where we'll separate.

6 Super Bowls is a lot, no other head coach and quarterback combo has come close to it, but no other head coach had Brady for 20 years. And then he won a 7th with another head coach in his very first try. So no, I don't think you can say Brady wouldn't have won 6 with another head coach in 20 years. It's at least reasonable to debate it.

 

[crawhammer]

But there's no debating whether or not Bill could have won 6 Super Bowls with another quarterback. That's a definitive NOT happening. We've got a 10 year sample size to back it up.

 

[Ian]

We're putting Brady on another team? Or we're keeping him in New England with a different head coach?

Does it matter? Because the question involved other coaches…so…?

Well, you've got me there, because I believe Belichick absolutely mattered in Brady's overall GOAT status, but you're setting the bar really low. Like, of course Belichick mattered, to whatever degree is where we'll separate.

That’s the most contradictory three sentences I may have ever read.

And no, I don’t think he wins six, and even 3-4 doesn’t allow him to pull away and shut up the talking heads. Especially now that Mahomes has two and has - in theory - plenty of years left in this league.

 

[Ian]

Yes, someone earlier stated so what he meant with the QB’s a couple hours a week, I meant to reply to that because for years just Brady and Bill meant in Bills office to go over their next opponents defense, Brady has said those meetings were so valuable to him.

I agree. As I’ve said, I don’t think Brady wins six without him and if he only had 3-4, we’d be hearing about Manning/Rodgers/Roethlisberger or Mahomes. He wouldn’t have the massive edge he has right now.

 

[Ian]

But there's no debating whether or not Bill could have won 6 Super Bowls with another quarterback. That's a definitive NOT happening. We've got a 10 year sample size to back it up.

it’s been three years post-Brady. I get that the Cleveland years boost your argument and that you discard the trend that team was on, the context for the final season, the 11-5 2008 season and the 3-1 in 2016, and you’re not a fan of the 10-7 2021 season. It is what it is. He’s had two bad years since Brady left, the second I’d say he bears responsibility for.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Tom Brady had more to do with scoring 6 additional PPG than Antoine Smith, yes

In 2001? Not so sure. But he certainly didn’t have more to do with it than Smith, Patten, Light, Compton, GRR and Edwards combined.

 

[Ring 6]

He should start developing more

He is.

 

[Ring 6]

Didn't realize you were a diehard Rams fan. Look those offenses were stacked... Warner, Faulk, and Bruce are HOFers, Torry Holt was a great receiver. They were a great regular season team but they weren't the same in the postseason with all the chips on the table. Their offense had 3 points in the 1999 NFCCG with 5 minutes left... they won by a score of 11-6. Bruce bailed out Warner on a **** throw that he turned into a 73-yard game-winning reception and yet they were still one yard away from OT in SB 34. They got bounced in the wild card in 2000. The divisional game in 2001 was hilarious with Green Bay turning the ball over 8 times including 6 INTs and 3 pick-6s from Favre. The Patriots held them to 3 points into the 4th quarter of SB 36 when they were looking pretty soft and bullied. Their 2002 team had many of the same players, including all of the HOFers, and they stunk. Warner was awful, he had 1 TD and 8 INTs before getting injured in week 4, and then he wasn't any good when he came back later in the season. I don't know, but when I think of all time great teams, the 2001 Rams don't come to mind. The Patriots, with Brady, an established HOFer by 2004, and many other all time Patriots (Troy Brown, McGinest, Bruschi, Law, Milloy, Seymour), were pretty damn good in 2001.

I’m not a rams fan, but unlike you I can be objective and honest.
Brady wasn’t a hall of famer in 2001.
Let’s do it this way. In 2001 alone, who was a better QB Tom Brady or Kurt Warner?

 

[Ring 6]

Those guys were 0-2 without Brady, factually. Good players, but out of those you named, how many offensive players were there, and which contributed the most to scoring a td more pg?

Special teams and defense accounted for 6 more TDS in 2001 than 2000 and the so the offense scored 54 more, 35 more against the colts and barely 1 per game more in the other 14. The defense allowed 66 fewer points.
So no your narrative is flawed, as usual.

 

[All3Phases]

In 2001? Not so sure. But he certainly didn’t have more to do with it than Smith, Patten, Light, Compton, GRR and Edwards combined.

Ok, disagree

 

[All3Phases]

Special teams and defense accounted for 6 more TDS in 2001 than 2000 and the so the offense scored 54 more, 35 more against the colts and barely 1 per game more in the other 14. The defense allowed 66 fewer points.
So no your narrative is flawed, as usual.

“Points don’t count and neither do wins”

 

[All3Phases]

He is.

Which one?

 

[Ring 6]

“Points don’t count and neither do wins”

You think points and wins don’t count, then what does?

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, disagree

Thanks for confirming your lack of understanding of the game.

 

[sb1]

I agree. As I’ve said, I don’t think Brady wins six without him and if he only had 3-4, we’d be hearing about Manning/Rodgers/Roethlisberger or Mahomes. He wouldn’t have the massive edge he has right now.

+ Montana too

Easy to say X wouldn’t win 6 without Y and absolutely if Y wasn’t anything special but what if Y was great too? Put Brady with Reid and they could have done some awesome things. Put BB with Peyton and ditto. At least in theory. I don’t know if those two would have gelled together…

 

[All3Phases]

Thanks for confirming your lack of understanding of the game.

Thanks for confirming you don’t think the quarterback is important, it’s going well for that narrative for sure!

Belichick seemed to think that Brady was important

 

[All3Phases]

You think points and wins don’t count, then what does?

You tell me, it’s your opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

Thanks for confirming you don’t think the quarterback is important, it’s going well for that narrative for sure!

Belichick seemed to think that Brady was important

I didn’t say the QB isn’t important I said the combined efforts of 6 of the 11 offensive starters on a team 22nd in passing were a bigger contribution than that of the QB. You seem to think blocking, rushing and catching don’t matter, the Qb can do it all himself.

 

[Ring 6]

You tell me, it’s your opinion.

You wrote it, I never said, implied or came near such a comment.