Reid vs BB at developing QBs

[crawhammer]

So coaching matters…

Wait… coaching no longer matters?

It’s funny how you vacillate between takes… it’s almost dishonest.

Daniel Jones was “very good,” try “a winner” for the first time in his career because his coach turned the entire teams fortunes around.

Coaching matters, it doesn’t matter… make up your mind.

You think because you characterize my comments as such that it makes them so. I didn't vacillate. And it's not all of nothing... coaching matters or coaching doesn't matter. Everything matters, including coaching, including all three phases, including all 53... it's the percentages that we disagree on. You have a utopic view of everything and everyone dividing into equal parts. To me that's a lazy take. Coaching matters but the execution by the players is more important. The player who handles the football the most, and has the most dramatic impact on the outcome of the plays collectively, the quarterback, is the most important. Special teams is a very distant third phase of importance. Etc.

At least you can admit you’re an obsessed weirdo…

No. That's your characterization. Whatever. It's catty and meaningless. Just an unsophisticated remark.

 

[crawhammer]

Your question is irrelevant. Brady deserves credit for his contribution. The question is how much the contribution was. If you can say Tom Brady playing at his 2001 level was THE reason the Patriots won the SB then you are refuting your daily, repetitive argument that it’s all about the QB. Brady is the GOAT, Brady in 2001 is an example of how it’s not all about the QB and how it was a team effort that carried a young QB who was just asked to do his job and contribute.

How does that season go if Bledsoe doesn't get injured?

 

[Ring 6]

How does that season go if Bledsoe doesn't get injured?

The same as it would go if they hadn’t upgraded all those other positions.

 

[All3Phases]

They also force turnovers at a higher rate. About halfway through last season after the bye their defense improved at forcing turnovers. They led the league from that point forward and went 12-1. Their one loss came when their D failed to force a turnover and their offense did turn it over.

They led the entire postseason in forced turnovers, per game and in total. Mahomes is better than Smith, the defense is better for what they want to do.

Compare the points given up and turnovers forced per year under smith vs mahomes.

New defensive coordinator, all world DT, the whole team is different. Your entire schtick is dependent on your ability to ignore all the facts that shoot holes in it.

The facts that the defenses were better under smith, objectively

Statistics (facts)!say you’re wrong. The world doesn’t revolve around your vivid imagination and fan histrionics.

No the stats would say Mahomes has led the organization to new heights

Reid drafted Mahomes, and Chris Jones and hired Steve Spagnoulo when his defenses were failing in the postseason. It takes a team.

The chiefs let up 35 points and won a Super Bowl. Thanks mahomes

You engaging in simplistic hero worship doesn’t change that.

Whatever you say brother

 

[Wozzy]

You think because you characterize my comments as such that it makes them so. I didn't vacillate. And it's not all of nothing... coaching matters or coaching doesn't matter. Everything matters, including coaching, including all three phases, including all 53... it's the percentages that we disagree on. You have a utopic view of everything and everyone dividing into equal parts. To me that's a lazy take. Coaching matters but the execution by the players is more important. The player who handles the football the most, and has the most dramatic impact on the outcome of the plays collectively, the quarterback, is the most important. Special teams is a very distant third phase of importance. Etc.


No. That's your characterization. Whatever. It's catty and meaningless. Just an unsophisticated remark.

You dance more than a cat on an electrified roof.

 

[Guts]

Are Craw and Mac 10 arguing amongst themselves and we can't see the posts? Lmao

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Are Craw and Mac 10 arguing amongst themselves and we can't see the posts? Lmao

Has to be the case

I had 3 unread pages in a thread, went to next page and saw 1 post on the entire page lol

The next page only had 5 posts

I don’t even remember Muting them

 

[Guts]

Has to be the case

I had 3 unread pages in a thread, went to next page and saw 1 post on the entire page lol

The next page only had 5 posts

I don’t even remember Muting them

Yeah I don't have anybody on ignore so I was confused to what was going on lol glad I wasn't the only one

 

[Wozzy]

Compare the points given up and turnovers forced per year under smith vs mahomes.

I’m comparing the years (2019/2022) they won a ring, not much else matters.

The Chiefs with Mahomes failed to beat Brady in 2018 because their defense failed… Reid fired DC Bob Sutton hired Steve Spags and immediately won a ring in 2019. Coincidence?

The facts that the defenses were better under smith, objectively

A couple of rankings difference isn’t definitive either way. Strength of schedule alone can move that line.

No the stats would say Mahomes has led the organization to new heights

Watson was better than Mahomes in 2020, stop with the hyperbolic ballwashing.

The chiefs let up 35 points and won a Super Bowl. Thanks mahomes

Chris Jones took advantage of the 49ers starting center being out and shoved the new guy back into Jimmy G’s face in the 2018 SB preventing a game ending throw and catch… “thanks Chris.” I swear < this is exactly how a small child thinks and talks.

Whatever you say brother

Brees led the NFL in passing three years in a row, the average points allowed by his defense was ranked 32nd… actually bad, not average/good like the Chiefs. He won 7 games in a row for three years.

Again… your magic QB nonsense only works when the team is good and fails completely when the team sucks. You ignore the sucky teams and yell about QB magic on the winning teams.

 

[All3Phases]

I’m comparing the years (2019/2022) they won a ring, not much else matters.

Sure, because it’d show that the chiefs from 13-16 were much better defensively under Reid, they just had a much worse quarterback. So the team narrative isn’t working

Under Sutton in 2013 they ranked 5th in PPD, 2nd in turnovers, 2014 6th in points per drive, 2015- 7th in PPD and 5th in turnovers and 2016- 6th in PPD and 1st in turnovers. They won nothing. So your narrative that they changed philosophies is wrong and they were better at it earlier in the decade and they don’t force turnovers at a higher rate which you said

The Chiefs with Mahomes failed to beat Brady in 2018 because their defense failed… Reid fired DC Bob Sutton hired Steve Spags and immediately won a ring in 2019. Coincidence?

No, because their defense was mediocre, 15th in points per drive. Just as they were worse and still won this last year

A couple of rankings difference isn’t definitive either way. Strength of schedule alone can move that line.

I bet you’re a guy that says Brady always had a top 10 defense though right? Now rankings don’t matter?

Watson was better than Mahomes in 2020, stop with the hyperbolic ballwashing.

No he wasn’t, and he never will be

Chris Jones took advantage of the 49ers starting center being out and shoved the new guy back into Jimmy G’s face in the 2018 SB preventing a game ending throw and catch… “thanks Chris.” I swear < this is exactly how a small child thinks and talks.

Brees led the NFL in passing three years in a row, the average points allowed by his defense was ranked 32nd… actually bad, not average/good like the Chiefs. He won 7 games in a row for three years.

Again… your magic QB nonsense only works when the team is good and fails completely when the team sucks. You ignore the sucky teams and yell about QB magic on the winning teams.

I don’t think you understand the argument brother

 

[Wozzy]

Sure, because it’d show that the chiefs from 13-16 were much better defensively under Reid, they just had a much worse quarterback. So the team narrative isn’t working

QB is part of the team. And the defenses weren’t “much better” as you conflate them all into one group… barely better if at all.

Under Sutton in 2013 they ranked 5th in PPD, 2nd in turnovers, 2014 6th in points per drive, 2015- 7th in PPD and 5th in turnovers and 2016- 6th in PPD and 1st in turnovers. They won nothing. So your narrative that they changed philosophies is wrong and they were better at it earlier in the decade and they don’t force turnovers at a higher rate which you said

It takes a team, the offense, defense and special teams have to work in concert. Showing us single year averages is irrelevant… how good was the entire team.

No, because their defense was mediocre, 15th in points per drive. Just as they were worse and still won this last year

There’s 32 teams, 16 is average. Brees Defenses from 2014-2016 while he was leading the NFL in passing were ranked 32nd worst on average. That’s what truly bad defense looks like. You calling a Chief’s D that was middling in points allowed but led the entire postseason in turnovers is much better than mediocre.

Lying or embellishing to make a point isn’t helping your argument.

I bet you’re a guy that says Brady always had a top 10 defense though right? Now rankings don’t matter?

The years Brady won rings he did. On average Brady had better defensive, special teams and surrounding offensive cast than any of his peers. That’s why he has 7 rings. Stats back up this assertion entirely.

No he wasn’t, and he never will be

All3phases saying “because I say so” doesn’t negate actual facts. That only works with your parents.

 

[Wozzy]

Are Craw and Mac 10 arguing amongst themselves and we can't see the posts? Lmao

Am I invisible or being censored?

 

[All3Phases]

QB is part of the team. And the defenses weren’t “much better” as you conflate them all into one group… barely better if at all.

The qb drives the teams success, especially when the defenses have been as mediocre as they have in KC

It takes a team, the offense, defense and special teams have to work in concert. Showing us single year averages is irrelevant… how good was the entire team.

So rankings or averages don’t matter?

There’s 32 teams, 16 is average. Brees Defenses from 2014-2016 while he was leading the NFL in passing were ranked 32nd worst on average. That’s what truly bad defense looks like. You calling a Chief’s D that was middling in points allowed but led the entire postseason in turnovers is much better than mediocre.

Nope, they were mediocre, often times worse. Unless we don’t care about rankings, make up your mind.

Lying or embellishing to make a point isn’t helping your argument.

I’ve given you facts you’ve given feelings. I have lied about nothing, you’ve just been dancing like a puppet

The years Brady won rings he did. On average Brady had better defensive, special teams and surrounding offensive cast than any of his peers. That’s why he has 7 rings. Stats back up this assertion entirely.

You mean rankings? That we no longer want to use? You’ve backpedaled all over the place now

All3phases insisting “because I say so” doesn’t negate actual facts.

“Showing us single year averages is irrelevant”

Didn’t you just say this?

Nonetheless, Mahomes has more tds, less ints, more YPG, higher qbr by a large margin, higher td% and lower int% all while leading a much better offense. So not sure what determines Watson being better

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah I don't have anybody on ignore so I was confused to what was going on lol glad I wasn't the only one

?

 

[h0c2000]

Give me Andy Reid for OC, BB for DC and Big Bill for HC.

 

[crawhammer]

@Ian just curious is there something unusual or new going on with this thread? Missing or hidden posts?

 

[crawhammer]

The same as it would go if they hadn’t upgraded all those other positions.

So the QB change had equal the importance of all other upgrades combined?

And you still didn't answer the question... all the of other upgrades happened, the season's underway, they're 0-2... if Bledsoe didn't get injured and he remained the QB then what happens with the rest of the season?

 

[Wozzy]

The qb drives the teams success, especially when the defenses have been as mediocre as they have in KC

They have to score on offense and force turnovers on D… that’s their formula.

So rankings or averages don’t matter?

Over the course of a regular season units can improve or get worse. Regular season averages won’t help you in the playoffs, only playoff averages will.

Nope, they were mediocre, often times worse. Unless we don’t care about rankings, make up your mind.

Completely dismissing a teams ability to get better or worse with the addition of subtraction of injured players or execution. Not smart.

I’ve given you facts you’ve given feelings. I have lied about nothing, you’ve just been dancing like a puppet

Calling good “mediocre” when half the league or more is worse is a lie… intentional or not.

You mean rankings? That we no longer want to use? You’ve backpedaled all over the place now

Look at the Chief’s defensive forced turnovers after the bye last season. Compare the averages from the first half of the season to the second half and playoffs.

Averages can provide a glimpse into the truth… you simply don’t understand or are being willfully ignorant. Teams improve, teams get worse… that’s a fact.

“Showing us single year averages is irrelevant”

Didn’t you just say this?

You handpicking one Chiefs defense that allowed fewer points than Mahomes led Chiefs is proof of nothing. How good was that offense beyond just the QB difference, how was OLine, the special teams, how tough was their schedule and opponents. There’s a slew of differences between teams beyond QB.

 

[Guts]

Am I invisible or being censored?

No I can see your posts , but this thread keeps saying there's new posts but I can't see them

 

[sb1]

No I can see your posts , but this thread keeps saying there's new posts but I can't see them

I think it's the new moderation tool that @Ian talked about. An off topic conversation that derails a thread is muted to all except those in the conversation. I guess it still bumps up the topic though like there are new posts to read...