OT: Dolphins Owner Steven Ross Suspended, Picks Forfeited, For Tampering With Brady, Payton

[Bill Lee]

I knew there would be a " but this is different" deflection. Yes there are differences but don't be willfully naive. Tampering very likely occured. We benefitted.

What you did was a deflection, a textbook example of "whataboutism".

You presumably don't like that MIA and Brady were caught red-handed, so you come up with a different scenario involving a lesser player playing a lesser position making a deal while he was a FA and after he cleared waivers with the entire league, trying to create the illusion of equivalance.

 

[Ring 6]

The employee in question is your best employee who help the boards makes millions but quits after 15 years because he thinks that his bosses continues to undervalue him and not rewarding him appropriately.

Both sides have their responsibility. I always find too easy when the management or the fans put the onus on the employee or the player to always have the right attitude regardless of all the sh*t they have to deal with.

When you come to the point where you piss off the best player in nfl history and the face of the franchise and your best player to the point he doesn’t want to play for you and can’t wait to get out, you deserve some blame too. it’s not like Brady turned down a 150M fully garanteed contract over 5 years to f*ck us and Bill was doing everything in his power to accommodate him but that’s just my opinion.

Edit: I have been in the same situation where I felt undervalued in my past organisation and was looking for another job while still working my old job and I quit only after my next contract was finalized. Everybody has his own opinion . Mine is that the tampering didn’t impact his performance on the field.

So if you sign a contract saying you will focus your effort solely to the benefit of your employer, and your employer isn’t nice to you, but upholds their end of the contract, your morality tells you that makes it ok to breach?

I’d have to say with an attitude like that I can understand why you would feel undervalued by your employer because you are overvaluing yourself by thinking adhering to terms you committed to is negotiable.
That is, assuming you had such a contract.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I'm not trying to be evasive but in all honesty I don't know. The Squealers cut him and either LG called NE or upon hearing the news NE called his agent.

I think that scenario is far more likely than LG texting BB and asking for advice on how to shoot his way out of Pitt or BB doing the same in the inverse.

That's plausible for sure and if that's how it started then I believe Blount needed to know if he would have a home on NewEngland when he did shoot his way out of town. That he landed here immediately leads me to believe once he was assured of that he then walk out.

 

[PatsWSB47]

What you did was a deflection, a textbook example of "whataboutism".

You presumably don't like that MIA and Brady were caught red-handed, so you come up with a different scenario involving a lesser player playing a lesser position making a deal while he was a FA and after he cleared waivers with the entire league, trying to create the illusion of equivalance.

Your honor, everything he just said is BS. I asked where the sanctimonious moral outrage was when we benefitted from tampering. Miami tampered with Brady and Brady engaged with them. Torches and pitch forks to the streets!!! Brady never left to go to Miami. Talks were talks. Blount immediately landed on the Pats after "talks" I think Anyone who claims that wasn't very likely is being disingenuous. Tampering happened and we benefitted.

 

[Noexcusesfornumber5]

No. What do you think? Answer man to man, not like a lawyer or a politician.

I think there's no way in hell considering the fact that BB would have had to convince every other team not to sign him off waivers.

 

[Bruins29]

"We're going to be fine. This isn't ISIS," "You know, no one's dying."

It turned out that it is ISIS and we are not going to be fine and people will die.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I think there's no way in hell considering the fact that BB would have had to convince every other team not to sign him off waivers.

Didn't have to if we knew he was going to what he did before hand so we could jump in first.

 

[Ring 6]

Your honor, everything he just said is BS. I asked where the sanctimonious moral outrage was when we benefitted from tampering. Miami tampered with Brady and Brady engaged with them. Torches and pitch forks to the streets!!! Brady never left to go to Miami. Talks were talks. Blount immediately landed on the Pats after "talks" I think Anyone who claims that wasn't very likely is being disingenuous. Tampering happened and we benefitted.

The damage of tampering isn’t just when a player goes to the team that tampered.
The reason tampering isn’t not allowed is that the team the player is under contract with is afforded exclusive rights to negotiate with them until they are a free agent.
Tampering interferes with that right.
In this case based upon Brady’s actions and the timing, it would seem that it caused him to sour on the Patriots because someone else interfered and criticized how the patriots treat him and offered him as much as ownership.
Creating discord doesn’t necessarily lead to you being the highest bidder later.

 

[Bill Lee]

Your honor, everything he just said is BS. I asked where the sanctimonious moral outrage was when we benefitted from tampering. Miami tampered with Brady and Brady engaged with them. Torches and pitch forks to the streets!!! Brady never left to go to Miami. Talks were talks. Blount immediately landed on the Pats after "talks" I think Anyone who claims that wasn't very likely is being disingenuous. Tampering happened and we benefitted.

"What about the Pats" is clearly doubling down on your whataboutism.

When you find yourself in a hole you can't get out of, the first thing you should do is stop digging.

LGB cleared waivers. Every team had to pass on him, then he became a FA. There was plenty of time to do things on the up and up. You not only have NO evidence something untoward happened, it is entirely plausible that absolutely nothing untoward did happen. If there was something to it, there's no doubt NFL would have acted, they would have loved to knock the Patriots down a peg. Now, you try to draw an equivalence to a case where the NFL did act and the player involved can't even be bothered to issue a denial. Pretty much the definition of whataboutism, IMO.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

The damage of tampering isn’t just when a player goes to the team that tampered.
The reason tampering isn’t not allowed is that the team the player is under contract with is afforded exclusive rights to negotiate with them until they are a free agent.
Tampering interferes with that right.
In this case based upon Brady’s actions and the timing, it would seem that it caused him to sour on the Patriots because someone else interfered and criticized how the patriots treat him and offered him as much as ownership.
Creating discord doesn’t necessarily lead to you being the highest bidder later.

The tampering began after the Patriots created discord with Brady on their own. The number of false narrative your create in your mind is quite impressive

 

[PatsWSB47]

The damage of tampering isn’t just when a player goes to the team that tampered.
The reason tampering isn’t not allowed is that the team the player is under contract with is afforded exclusive rights to negotiate with them until they are a free agent.
Tampering interferes with that right.
In this case based upon Brady’s actions and the timing, it would seem that it caused him to sour on the Patriots because someone else interfered and criticized how the patriots treat him and offered him as much as ownership.
Creating discord doesn’t necessarily lead to you being the highest bidder later.

No doubt Miami exploitted and embellished all of Brady's discontent but I'm pretty sure Brady was already soured on the Pats. Garopollo, SB 52, singling him out in team meetings etc.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

If there was something to it, there's no doubt NFL would have acted, they would have loved to knock the Patriots down a peg

I mean if it wasn’t for Flores none of that would have come to light. I even go to the length of thinking that the league knew about the dolphins tampering and did nothing. Until they needed that to do some diversion about the tanking and the Watson situation of course.

Edit: I am not naive enough to believe that tampering never happens. Surely not of the magnitude with which the dolphins did it but I am pretty convinced that tampering is a common practice and the league doesn’t care much about it

 

[PatsWSB47]

"What about the Pats" is clearly doubling down on your whataboutism.

When you find yourself in a hole you can't get out of, the first thing you should do is stop digging.

LGB cleared waivers. Every team had to pass on him, then he became a FA. There was plenty of time to do things on the up and up. You not only have NO evidence something untoward happened, it is entirely plausible that absolutely nothing untoward did happen. If there was something to it, there's no doubt NFL would have acted, they would have loved to knock the Patriots down a peg. Now, you try to draw an equivalence to a case where the NFL did act and the player involved can't even be bothered to issue a denial. Pretty much the definition of whataboutism, IMO.

I'm asking straight out. If the Pats and Blount talked, would there be any even mild outrage from the mob?

 

[Guts]

I'm asking straight out. If the Pats and Blount talked, would there be any even mild outrage from the mob?

You can't really compare Blount to Brady though. Only real comparison is the whole Favre situation

 

[Bill Lee]

I'm asking straight out. If the Pats and Blount talked, would there be any even mild outrage from the mob?

So, you're really trying to compare a hypothetical scenario involving a relatively minor player to an actual scenario involving the GOAT negotiating while under contract multiple times with an in-conference rival?

 

[PatsWSB47]

So, you're really trying to compare a hypothetical scenario involving a relatively minor player to an actual scenario involving the GOAT negotiating while under contract multiple times with an in-conference rival?

No, I'm asking a question. Look it, everyone knows tampering occurs all the time. People under contract, in conference, out if conference, great players, not so great players. This one hits home so I get it but let's not pretend that this isn't happening all over the league. Remember when all the other fan bases believed the Pats was the only team that ever tried to steal signals?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

You can't really compare Blount to Brady though. Only real comparison is the whole Favre situation

Honestly for me, I wouldn’t say it’s a non story but I don’t care. It doesn’t change the view I have a Tom. I don’t consider him a traitor or whatever. For me it’s a simple case of an employee who is not happy in his workplace any more and wants to change job.

Brady tried to have what he wanted one last time in 2019 and when he saw that Bill and Bob wouldn’t change their stance. He decided that it was time for a change. They all agree on a contract that allowed Brady to leave at the end of the year and that was it. Everybody knew full well that Brady was gone that why the patriots didn’t even offered him a contract after the season. All of thing Bob said was just PR to save face. That’s why I am not that angry about Miami tampering. For me it didn’t change anything on and off the field. Do you really believe that if the only thing that is different in 2019 is Miami not tampering, Brady plays better?

Now it would be totally another story if the Patriots wanted to keep Brady until 45 with a multi year fair contract and Brady rejected that to sign in Miami and we learn after that that Miami tampered with him during the season. Now I would have been really pissed. But that’s not what happened. I am 100% confident that Miami tampering had absolutely 0 effect on Brady play or Brady leaving.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think Blount texted Belichick for advice on how to shoot his way out of ****tsburgh.... but it is very much in the realm of possibilty that someone associated with the Patriots (not Belichick himself, someone lower on the totem pole) may have had a conversation with Blount's agent and had an off-the-record conversation.... like "hey I am not saying Blount should shoot his way off the Steelers, but if he does then he would find a landing spot in Foxboro.... you know I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'....."

View attachment 44347

Sure. Maybe. Who knows.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's plausible for sure and if that's how it started then I believe Blount needed to know if he would have a home on NewEngland when he did shoot his way out of town. That he landed here immediately leads me to believe once he was assured of that he then walk out.

Remember he left NE on good terms. His agent knew that.

Once he was fired his agent called NE and a contract was emailed over.

Done deal.

 

[Bill Lee]

No, I'm asking a question. Look it, everyone knows tampering occurs all the time. People under contract, in conference, out if conference, great players, not so great players. This one hits home so I get it but let's not pretend that this isn't happening all over the league. Remember when all the other fan bases believed the Pats was the only team that ever tried to steal signals?

You asked a question, then when you didn't get the answer you wanted you accused someone else of raising a "deflection", while all along your "question" was a textook "deflection".

OT: Dolphins Owner Steven Ross Suspended, Picks Forfeited, For Tampering With Brady, Payton

Both sides have their responsibility. I always find too easy when the management or the fans put the onus on the employee or the player to always have the right attitude regardless of all the sh*t they have to deal with. When you come to the point where you piss off the best player in nfl...

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Look in the mirror...