OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[SHOWTIME15]

That only further proves the point. That 49ers offense was still designed, and rostered by Walsh. Walsh was only a year removed.

No it doesn't. Your point is non-sensical. Montana won Super Bowls under an offensive minded coach and a defensive minded coach. GIve it a rest.

 

[Disco Volante]

Phil Simms Super Bowl Rating - 150.9
Joe Montana Super Bowl Rating - 123.9

Looks guys, I can troll like MAC10 too.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Phil Simms Super Bowl Rating - 150.9
Joe Montana Super Bowl Rating - 123.9

Looks guys, I can troll like MAC10 too.

Small sample size for Simms in the SB, buddy

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Small sample size for Simms in the SB, buddy

You’re such a ****ty troll. People just feel bad for you. Nothing more.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Small sample size for Simms in the SB, buddy

So Montana having 3 more Superbowls than Sims is proof but Brady having 6 more Superbowls than Montana isn't?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

So Montana having 3 more Superbowls than Sims is proof but Brady having 6 more Superbowls than Montana isn't?

I didn’t realize Brady had 10 Super Bowls…

 

[sb1]

“Tom has taken his place at the top of that list a while ago.”
-Joe Montana on if there’s a consensus GOAT QB in the NFL

 

[sb1]

But the point is Montana didn't barely win most of his super bowls. 3 of his super bowls were blowouts, including the first one against Cincinnati when the Bengals scored with 2 seconds left in the 4th to make it look a lot closer than it was. Your point would be much stronger if Montana barely won his super bowls and merely rode strong defense. And it took Brady 10 super bowl appearances to even blow out one opponent...and that was in a Bucs uniform. All other super bowls he won was by a single score.

He did ride very strong defense to even get to the game. When Montana didn’t have a great defense he never sniffed anything close to the Super Bowl. Brady carried his entire team many times to a Super Bowl. Also carried his head coach by Bill’s own admission.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I didn’t realize Brady had 10 Super Bowls…

You were comparing sample sizes., duh. Why the Superbowl 42 signiture? I've asked numerous times and you ignore the question. But everyone knows why. It's obvious you hate Brady. So you're not getting away with anything by refusing to answer.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He did ride very strong defense to even get to the game. When Montana didn’t have a great defense he never sniffed anything close to the Super Bowl. Brady carried his entire team many times to a Super Bowl. Also carried his head coach by Bill’s own admission.

Brady's defenses carried him to SB 36, 38, 39, and 53. So just stop with this "Brady did everything by himself without a defense and head coach" crap. If only Montana had Walsh as his HC for 20 years...

And why do you get so annoyed when another player does something better than Tommy? It's not Joe's fault that he has a higher quarterback rating in the super bowl as well as in playoff games overall. For some reason it seems to bother you, which is why you started this debate in this thread.

And can you name me an iconic throw by Brady in the super bowl along the lines of Montana to Clark, Montana to Rice, Montana to Taylor, Manning to Tyree, or Manning to Manningham?

 

[sb1]

Brady's defenses carried him to SB 36, 38, 39, and 53.

53 yes. The rest? Wrong.

So just stop with this "Brady did everything by himself without a defense and head coach" crap. If only Montana had Walsh as his HC for 20 years...

Fact: If the 49ers defense wasn't elite, Montana didn't make the Super Bowl. Another fact: Brady has taken plenty of weak defenses to Super Bowls. Those aren't opinions I already demonstrated they're facts.

And why do you get so annoyed when another player does something better than Tommy? It's not Joe's fault that he has a higher quarterback rating in the super bowl as well as in playoff games overall. For some reason it seems to bother you, which is why you started this debate in this thread.

"debate" lol. Next time if you're going to compare stats between two players use the same sample size not one over twice as large as the other. Otherwise it will get called out and rightfully so.

Montana said Brady is GOAT. Belichick is on record admitting that he would not be successful without Brady. Seems pointless now to dispute those things when you heard it right from those sources.

And can you name me an iconic throw by Brady in the super bowl along the lines of Montana to Clark, Montana to Rice, Montana to Taylor, Manning to Tyree, or Manning to Manningham?

Brady to Brown in SB36 was just as iconic as all those throws. Put the Patriots in GWFG range. The TD to Vrabel. The throw to Hogan during the comeback on 3rd and long that pulled the Pats out of the shadow of their goal post. And of course the throw to Edelman on the same drive and you know which one. I can keep going if you want.

You don't have to get upset. GOAT's make great plays when it matters most and Brady made plenty. That's what GOAT's do.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Brady's defenses carried him to SB 36, 38, 39, and 53. So just stop with this "Brady did everything by himself without a defense and head coach" crap. If only Montana had Walsh as his HC for 20 years...

And why do you get so annoyed when another player does something better than Tommy? It's not Joe's fault that he has a higher quarterback rating in the super bowl as well as in playoff games overall. For some reason it seems to bother you, which is why you started this debate in this thread.

And can you name me an iconic throw by Brady in the super bowl along the lines of Montana to Clark, Montana to Rice, Montana to Taylor, Manning to Tyree, or Manning to Manningham?

Phoney. You hate Brady. Why don't you change your screen name again so. At least you can get away with pretending you actually want an honest discussion

 

[SHOWTIME15]

53 yes. The rest? Wrong.


Fact: If the 49ers defense wasn't elite, Montana didn't make the Super Bowl. Another fact: Brady has taken plenty of weak defenses to Super Bowls. Those aren't opinions I already demonstrated they're facts.


"debate" lol. Next time if you're going to compare stats between two players use the same sample size not one over twice as large as the other. Otherwise it will get called out and rightfully so.

Montana said Brady is GOAT. Belichick is on record admitting that he would not be successful without Brady. Seems pointless now to dispute those things when you heard it right from those sources.

Brady to Brown in SB36 was just as iconic as all those throws. Put the Patriots in GWFG range. The TD to Vrabel. The throw to Hogan during the comeback on 3rd and long that pulled the Pats out of the shadow of their goal post. And of course the throw to Edelman on the same drive and you know which one. I can keep going if you want.

You don't have to get upset. GOAT's make great plays when it matters most and Brady made plenty. That's what GOAT's do.

What? The 1981 and 1988 Niners defenses weren't "elite." Certainly not the level of the 2001, 2003, and 2004 Patriots defenses, which were historic. And you seem to be forgetting that Montana blew out the number 1 defenses in SB 19 and 24...

4 super bowls is a plenty good sample size. I asked you several times if you want to compare Brady's first four super bowl appearances to Montana's...you refused because you know Brady's QB rating is lower in those games. That would make for a fair comparison, but you laughed when I suggested it.

And Brady to Brown in SB 36 is not iconic...no one outside of NE remembers it. And I'll give you Brady to Edelman but that was iconic only because of Edelman's amazing catch. The throw itself on that play we meh. People remember Montana to Clark, Montana to Taylor, Eli to Tyree, ELi to Manningham, Roethlisburger to Holmes, etc.

And yes Brady made plenty of great plays but he also lost to two crappy QBs in SBs, Eli and Foles. It is what it is.

 

[PatsWSB47]

What? The 1981 and 1988 Niners defenses weren't "elite." Certainly not the level of the 2001, 2003, and 2004 Patriots defenses, which were historic. And you seem to be forgetting that Montana blew out the number 1 defenses in SB 19 and 24...

4 super bowls is a plenty good sample size. I asked you several times if you want to compare Brady's first four super bowl appearances to Montana's...you refused because you know Brady's QB rating is lower in those games. That would make for a fair comparison, but you laughed when I suggested it.

And Brady to Brown in SB 36 is not iconic...no one outside of NE remembers it. And I'll give you Brady to Edelman but that was iconic only because of Edelman's amazing catch. The throw itself on that play we meh. People remember Montana to Clark, Montana to Taylor, Eli to Tyree, ELi to Manningham, Roethlisburger to Holmes, etc.

And yes Brady made plenty of great plays but he also lost to two crappy QBs in SBs, Eli and Foles. It is what it is.

Phoney, how many quarterbacks did Montana lose to all those years he sidnt make it to the Superbowl? He lost to Foles, that's your take? Exactly the line Rob Parker uses, lol.

 

[sb1]

What? The 1981 and 1988 Niners defenses weren't "elite." Certainly not the level of the 2001, 2003, and 2004 Patriots defenses, which were historic.

The 1981 Niners were 2nd in points and yards. That's elite. In 12 out of their 16 games they allowed 17 points or less.
The 88 Niners were 8th in points and 3rd in yards. 12 out of 19 games they allowed 17 points or less including playoffs. Still a very good defense.

The 01 Patriots defense was bottom 10 in yards against a last place schedule. The 2003 defense was elite but they were shredded in the 4th quarter by one of the worst QB's to ever make a Super Bowl. The 2004 defense was good but hardly what I'd call historic. They were only 17th vs the pass and McNabb was able to throw on them in the Super Bowl.

Montana needed a top notch defense to qualify for a Super Bowl. Brady didn't need one. Fact.

4 super bowls is a plenty good sample size.

It's a good sample size but you're comparing stats in that sample size with another QB with twice the sample size which makes the comparison totally worthless.

I asked you several times if you want to compare Brady's first four super bowl appearances to Montana's...you refused because you know Brady's QB rating is lower in those games. That would make for a fair comparison, but you laughed when I suggested it.

And I already explained why I laughed.

And Brady to Brown in SB 36 is not iconic...Brady to Edelman was but only because of Edelman's amazing catch. The throw itself on that play we meh.

Sure it is iconic. It put the Patriots on the doorstep of one of the biggest upsets in sports history that we'll see in our lifetime and it's a memorable play even among non Patriots fans.

If you're call Tyree an iconic catch - and that's what people remember not the throw - why aren't you calling the throw to Edelman the same?

And yes Brady made plenty of great plays but he also lost to two crappy QBs in SBs, Eli and Foles. It is what it is.

Yeah too bad the head coach kept the one guy that would have prevented the Foles loss on the bench. The Patriots defense lost both Giants games not Brady. Losses are team stats as much as wins are.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The 1981 Niners were 2nd in points and yards. That's elite. In 12 out of their 16 games they allowed 17 points or less.
The 88 Niners were 8th in points and 3rd in yards. 12 out of 19 games they allowed 17 points or less including playoffs. Still a very good defense.

The 01 Patriots defense was bottom 10 in yards against a last place schedule. The 2003 defense was elite but Jake Delhomme shredded them in the 4th quarter. The 2004 defense was good but hardly what I'd call historic. They were only 17th vs the pass and McNabb was able to throw on them in the Super Bowl.

Montana needed a top notch defense to qualify for a Super Bowl. Brady didn't need one. Fact.


It's a good sample size but you're comparing stats in that sample size with another QB with twice the sample size which makes the comparison totally worthless.


And I already explained why I laughed.

Sure it is iconic. It put the Patriots on the doorstep of one of the biggest upsets in sports history that we'll see in our lifetime and it's a memorable play even among non Patriots fans.

If you're call Tyree an iconic catch why aren't you calling the throw to Edelman the same?


Yeah too bad the head coach kept the one guy that would have prevented the Foles loss on the bench. The Patriots defense lost both Giants games not Brady. Losses are team stats as much as wins are.

You keep forgetting a key fact. Brady's road to the SB was always easier. Every year he played in a ****ty division (fact), got the 1 or 2 seed, ended up playing another ****ty team in the divisional, and beat a pretty good but not great team in the AFCCG (like Pittsburgh, Indy, etc). Montana had to face tough Giants in 85 and 86, Bears, and Redskins teams. All those teams won the super bowl in the 80s. Really, the only bad team Montana lost to as a Niner was Minnesota in 1987. On the other hand, Brady lost to a number of bad teams like the 2005 Broncos, 2007 Giants, 2009 Ravens, 2010 Jete, 2011 Giants. and 2019 Titans.

ANd I already admitted the Edelman catch was iconic...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You keep forgetting a key fact. Brady's road to the SB was always easier. Every year he played in a ****ty division (fact), got the 1 or 2 seed, ended up playing another ****ty team in the divisional, and beat a pretty good but not great team in the AFCCG (like Pittsburgh, Indy, etc). Montana had to face tough Giants in 85 and 86, Bears, and Redskins teams. All those teams won the super bowl in the 80s. Really, the only bad team Montana lost to as a Niner was Minnesota in 1987. On the other hand, Brady lost to a number of bad teams like the 2005 Broncos, 2007 Giants, 2009 Ravens, 2010 Jete, 2011 Giants. and 2019 Titans.

ANd I already admitted the Edelman catch was iconic...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Did you ever figure out that great concoction of ketchup and mayonnaise you "discovered" is Russian dressing, bud?

 

[sb1]

You keep forgetting a key fact. Brady's road to the SB was always easier. Every year he played in a ****ty division (fact), got the 1 or 2 seed, ended up playing another ****ty team in the divisional, and beat a pretty good but not great team in the AFCCG (like Pittsburgh, Indy, etc). Montana had to face tough Giants in 85 and 86, Bears, and Redskins teams. All those teams won the super bowl in the 80s. Really, the only bad team Montana lost to as a Niner was Minnesota in 1987. On the other hand, Brady lost to a number of bad teams like the 2005 Broncos, 2007 Giants, 2009 Ravens, 2010 Jete, 2011 Giants. and 2019 Titans.

Not really. Those teams didn't have great QBs so there's no reason why Montana couldn't have made more Super Bowls without a top defense. The Giants had Simms, the Bears had McMahon and the Redskins had Doug Williams and then Rypien. I don't see any great QBs year after year in that list at the level of Peyton Manning, Mahomes, Ben, Luck or even Rivers.

Sure the Patriots have been eliminated by some inferior teams over the years (losses are a team stat not a QB stat) but I don't think Brady was really to blame for any of those losses.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Did you ever figure out that great concoction of ketchup and mayonnaise you "discovered" is Russian dressing, bud?

You think Russian dressing consists only of ketchup and mayonnaise and nothing else? You can’t be this dumb. You just can’t.