Defense - old, slow, bad

[captain stone]

To me that read like some not-so-subtle shade on the defensive coaching.

Yeah I suppose, but when the defense of the team you're covering allows the opposition to do to it what it did, then even Reiss can no longer sugar-coat the result; we all saw it too, from both a personnel and an in-game perspective...

 

[mgteich]

with the cheap contract and potential he has, he is more in than some of the vets with higher cap, right now I think the only thing that might hold him back to see the field next year is health, if he is healthy he will play

LB's AND EDGE PLAYERS MOST LIKELY TO MAKE THE 53 (if not on IR)
Judon
McGrone (2021 draftee)
Perkins (2021 draftee)
McMillan
===================
COMPETING
Uche (2020 draftee)
Jennings (2020 draftee)
Winovich (2019 draftee)
Tavai
Langi
TBD (2022 draftee)
===================
VETERANS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE BACK
Hightower
Van Noy
Bentley
Collins
===================
A THOUGHT
I don't think that Belichick will wipe out all the veterans, leaving Judon, the kids, and new vets.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Every time I see the title of this thread it gives me a chuckle because it reminds me of this:

 

[captain stone]

LB's AND EDGE PLAYERS MOST LIKELY TO MAKE THE 53 (if not on IR)
Judon
McGrone (2021 draftee)
Perkins (2021 draftee)
McMillan
===================
COMPETING
Uche (2020 draftee)
Jennings (2020 draftee)
Winovich (2019 draftee)
Tavai
Langi
TBD (2022 draftee)
===================
VETERANS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE BACK
Hightower
Van Noy
Bentley
Collins
===================
A THOUGHT
I don't think that Belichick will wipe out all the veterans, leaving Judon, the kids, and new vets.

I would move Uche to the Most Likely list;

Bentley & KVN may return if they wish, but only on a one year, non-guaranteed, vet minimum deal for Bentley and a re-structured contract (i.e.: pay cut) for KVN...

And thank you for not including Brandon the King anywhere in this list.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I would move Uche to the Most Likely list;

I think it depends on who is brought in via FA or draft. Regardless, he should be on notice as his play was atrocious this year and early similar to Winovich’s 2nd year.

 

[TomPatriot]

I think it depends on who is brought in via FA or draft. Regardless, he should be on notice as his play was atrocious this year and early similar to Winovich’s 2nd year.

Really? How could you tell? He was almost never on the field.

So why did Wino and Uche have bad years?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Really? How could you tell? He was almost never on the field.

So why did Wino and Uche have bad years?

Is your first question referring to Uche?

Uche and Winovich are similar players who have one rush move and no counters. Tackles have easily picked up on their initial attack, only to see them stand around after they were stopped in their tracks.

Winovich really struggled when the focus was now on him in 2020. We haven’t seen him much since.

Both can’t stop the run and easily pushed around. In fact, Uche looks tiny out there. He’s always getting run over or “thrown out of the club”.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Bill is set on this 2003 idea of a linebacking core. Big physical guys who are north and south guys and can't really go sideline to sideline. With that being said I don't know why he drafted two smaller more athletic guys in Winovich, and Uche to hardly play them. I was hoping they would usher in a LB core that was focusing more on speed and less on size but then he re-signed Van Noy and Collins and Wino and Uche got buried. Winovich to me is the most the most curious of the two as his snaps drastically decreased since the beginning of 2020 when he started out really well as a pass rusher. I know there was the moment on the sideline last year where he and Bill seemed to have a heated discussion and it seems like that was the catalyst for the lessened playing time. At this point I would be surprised if Winovich is on the team by the end of next season but he seems like a guy who can go to another system and be a 10 sack guy with his pass rushing skillset. Sometimes I wish Bill would utilize these guys natural skills and not try to make them an all around LB at the detriment of what makes them special.

Better players play. Winovich played himself out of playing time. Uche hasn’t showed much skill beyond a short stretch of looking good rushing the passer but that wasn’t sustained.
The problem with edge players is that they play 40,50,60 snaps in a game and people think the 3 that they notice them are all that matters.

Our system is a nickel base which essentially means it’s a 34 or 43 depending on what you consider Judon, with a safety playing LB. Judon is really a DE. So Hightower Phillips, Van Not is not an oversized LB group.
You can’t play nickel base with 230 lb guys in place of HT and KVN, you would never stop the run.

The biggest issue with the defense was execution, and unfortunately the biggest part of that is that Hightower has gone from the most importantly piece that makes the scheme work to a liability.

 

[JayNM]

LB's AND EDGE PLAYERS MOST LIKELY TO MAKE THE 53 (if not on IR)
Judon
McGrone (2021 draftee)
Perkins (2021 draftee)
McMillan
===================
COMPETING
Uche (2020 draftee)
Jennings (2020 draftee)
Winovich (2019 draftee)
Tavai
Langi
TBD (2022 draftee)
===================
VETERANS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE BACK
Hightower
Van Noy
Bentley
Collins
===================
A THOUGHT
I don't think that Belichick will wipe out all the veterans, leaving Judon, the kids, and new vets.

I wouldnt mind Bentley returning. I think he has a role here and, more importantly, has been improving every year. Id bring him back. Everyone else of the veterans, they can go.

Uche will be the biggest story at the beginning of the camp, other than newcomers, so the fire is re-ignated. Really disappointing season for him

In year 3 of any rookie, i always veer into "their production wont change much" if they are somewhat busts. Jennings, for sure, Wino might not fit into this entirely, is not that far away

I like Langi. No reason why, his name is funny

 

[jmt57]

A nice breakdown from Football Outsiders on how the Bills and their running game were able to constantly keep the New England defense off balance. Column includes five short video breakdowns. The Pats were on their heels because Buffalo was constantly mixing things up with their blocking and run play calls.

Bills' Diverse Run Game a Problem in the Playoffs

Derrik Klassen shows how Buffalo has merged the running skills of Josh Allen with some elaborate blocking schemes to build an attack capable of steamrolling most any defense.

www.footballoutsiders.com

The progression of concepts was what impressed the most against New England. At the core, almost all of the Bills' plays were pulling concepts, but the way they got there in terms of personnel, formation, and the actual concept itself varied greatly and gave a generally stout New England front a ton of issues.​

 

[‘Mondre]

Like to see a 3-4 with a Wilfork level NT playing 0 technique, Bentley and a speedy, athletic LB as Mike and Jack, and the two ends/weak/strong lbs being whoever can play… either keep collins for now, or wino steps up, or whomever… and Uche. Judon can be either.

i feel like that gives bill the option to be as creative as he can, and potentially confuse people… while also adapting to the trend of speed at LB, and seeing who we can trust of the young defensive players.

that’s two picks early in front seven, figure out what you can for the secondary, even if it means trying to keep JC and DMac.

BAM. 20ppg allowed. We going to the AFC championship.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I would just call #2 "contributors"
=================
MY LIST (not counting free agents)

CATEGORY 1 (5): no changes. Of course, Jackson is a FA.

CATEGORY 2 (5): I agree on Wise, Godchaux, Bryant, and Mills. I would add McMillan.
I don't think that we know yet whether we can depend at all on Uche and Winovich (or Jennings or Perkins or McGrone)

CATEGORY 3 (3): Van Noy and Guy (I expect to see them on the team at least into August.
================
POSSIBLE CONTRIBUTORS (8): Uche, Winovich, McGrone, Perkins, Jennings, Anderson, Cowart, Wade, Tavai, Williams

UNLIKLY CONTRIBUTORS (3): Collins, Bledsoe, Langi, Hall, Williams

==============
WHERE WE ARE
DL (7): Barmore, Wise, Godchaux, Guy, Anderson, Cowart, Winovich
LB/EDGE (9): Judon, McMillan, Uche, Van Noy, Winovich, McGrone, Perkins, Tavai, Jennings,/Langi
DB (8): Phillips, Dugger, Mills, Jones, Bryant, Wade, Williams, Bledsoe
ST (2): Bethel, Davis

Defense definitely needs work, but i think this shows that we actually have a solid talent base in place to build on and its not as hopeless a situation as it looks after the disastrous finish. 5 great players (if we retain jcj) , 5 solid /rotational players ( though id replace mcmillan with Jonathan jones and drop McMillan to possible contributors).

I really hope we are able to land davis rd 1 . Try to nab a cb /mlb later on, also def helps if wade /McMillan step up from ‘possible contributors’. A quality edge guy opposite judon would help (again possibly already on the team.

 

[kennyb]

If bb and co are supposed to be great coaches, why can't they coach up uche and wino? What is kraft getting for bb's huge salary?

They draft these guys to great acclaim then they bench them for 4 years. Meanwhile, belichick's binky harry is out there even though he can't catch?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

If bb and co are supposed to be great coaches, why can't they coach up uche and wino? What is kraft getting for bb's huge salary?

They draft these guys to great acclaim then they bench them for 4 years. Meanwhile, belichick's binky harry is out there even though he can't catch?

money of the biggest flaws of the scouting process is that you can not scout heart and desire!
Bb can not make winovich want to play against the run.

 

[captain stone]

...The biggest issue with the defense was execution, and unfortunately the biggest part of that is that Hightower has gone from the most importantly piece that makes the scheme work to a liability.

The biggest issue with the defense was Talent.

 

[Ring 6]

I would move Uche to the Most Likely list;

Bentley & KVN may return if they wish, but only on a one year, non-guaranteed, vet minimum deal for Bentley and a re-structured contract (i.e.: pay cut) for KVN...

And thank you for not including Brandon the King anywhere in this list.

There is no way Bentley has to accept a vet minimum deal.
KVN is a 5 mill decision. 7.4 to have him 2.4 to not.
Hard to believe a better replacement will be out there for 5 mill.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The biggest issue with the defense was Talent.

Exactly. Look at the 7 wins. Defense carrying the team. Defense carrying the wins. All with smoke and mirrors having fundamental garbage players in Godchaux, Bentley, and SloJuan. And no chance once both Mills and Jon Jones got hurt. Need to focus all the draft picks on Defense plus free agency money too. Can't count on the offense with the mediocre OC still here. This team lives or dies by its defense.

 

[Ring 6]

Exactly. Look at the 7 wins. Defense carrying the team. Defense carrying the wins. All with smoke and mirrors having fundamental garbage players in Godchaux, Bentley, and SloJuan. And no chance once both Mills and Jon Jones got hurt. Need to focus all the draft picks on Defense plus free agency money too. Can't count on the offense with the mediocre OC still here. This team lives or dies by its defense.

View attachment 40308

They scored 32.1 ppg on those 7. How is that the defense carrying them?
The more you post the further you get from reality.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

They scored

You're too dumb to not even realize all your "the offense is awesome" insistence still backs up the argument to go Defense, Defense, Defense in the draft and free agency. To your own not accurate points, the offense is incredible and best in red zone. Spend all resources on DEFENSE this off-season

 

[WhatJustHappened]

You BOTH HAVE POINTS, BUT...
WHY THE HATRED?
How about a realistic discussion?