Belichick criticism mega-thread

[mariomega]

You just wrote Jordan could have won.

That's what I said, Jordan could have won, Belichick could have won.

We agree.

Yes, could've, should've, all assumptions.

But I will give you one FACT: Brady won without BB. Unless BB can get at least one without Brady, or even erase his sub 0.500 record, he will get the heat.

 

[TheRainMaker]

You just wrote Jordan could have won.

That's what I said, Jordan could have won, Belichick could have won.

We agree.

Bill would've gotten fired by 2003 had Brady not been up to the challenge.

 

[mariomega]

Belichick's hurt feelings? What are you talking about? I've never seen Belichick cry. I've seen plenty of players cry. But never Belichick. The guy doesn't seem to have feelings.

No, he just has a HUGE EGO, am I right?

 

[mariomega]

Bill would've gotten fired by 2003 had Brady not been up to the challenge.

This rain is so good to my sore eyes

 

[upstater1]

Yes, could've, should've, all assumptions.

But I will give you one FACT: Brady won without BB. Unless BB can get at least one without Brady, or even erase his sub 0.500 record, he will get the heat.

Thank you. You seemed so certain before that Belichick would never have won without Brady. But at least you now acknowledge that he would've.

 

[upstater1]

No, he just has a HUGE EGO, am I right?

I hope he has a huge ego. Last thing I want is a cowering sniveling coach who is scared and thinks he's going to lose.

 

[mariomega]

I hope he has a huge ego. Last thing I want is a cowering sniveling coach who is scared and thinks he's going to lose.

He is a losing coach without Brady. He was before Brady, he was last year.
And this year, he will continue the trend: a loser.

 

[upstater1]

Bill would've gotten fired by 2003 had Brady not been up to the challenge.

Is that why Kraft spent 3 hours wooing him in 1996 inside a freezing car in a parking lot? And then dumped Pom-Pom Pete (who never gave him a losing year) for the chance to hire Belichick?

 

[mariomega]

Is that why Kraft spent 3 hours wooing him in 1996 inside a freezing car in a parking lot? And then dumped Pom-Pom Pete (who never gave him a losing year) for the chance to hire Belichick?

And?

If BB did not get the job done, he would've been fired, like my buddy TheRainMaker said.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is that why Kraft spent 3 hours wooing him in 1996 inside a freezing car in a parking lot? And then dumped Pom-Pom Pete (who never gave him a losing year) for the chance to hire Belichick?

1996 is the year immediately before 2003, then?

 

[mariomega]

1996 is the year immediately before 2003, then?

Stop it Deus, it is not fair.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Is that why Kraft spent 3 hours wooing him in 1996 inside a freezing car in a parking lot? And then dumped Pom-Pom Pete (who never gave him a losing year) for the chance to hire Belichick?

Bob passed on Bill after Parcells left as he didn't think Bill was ready to be a HC as much as he wanted to hire him. Capers was also in the running before he chose Carrell. He dumped Pete because they were trending in the wrong direction (10-6, 9-7, 8-8) and as I criticize Bill for, they couldn't draft worth a damn. Bill gained steam as a worthy HC candidate after derailing the red hot 6-2 Pats on MNF in '99 in a game where the Pats were heavily favored and slowing down Manning twice in a row when Manning set the league on fire. Bob was convinced the timing was now right.

But Bill was 5-13 until Brady took over. The defense would've kept them in games, but the Pats couldn't do squat on offense with a $100M QB. It wasn't looking good for Bill had he not got competent QB play.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill would've gotten fired by 2003 had Brady not been up to the challenge.

OK let's play the hypothetical game...

If Drew would never have gotten hurt, how would have the 2001 season played out?

Your response will lead to another question.

 

[TheRainMaker]

OK let's play the hypothetical game...

If Drew would never have gotten hurt, how would have the 2001 season played out?

Your response will lead to another question.

Easy. Another losing season.

 

[mariomega]

Bob passed on Bill after Parcells left as he didn't think Bill was ready to be a HC as much as he wanted to hire him. Capers was also in the running before he chose Carrell. He dumped Pete because they were trending in the wrong direction and as I criticize Bill for, they couldn't draft worth a damn. Bill gained steam as a worthy HC candidate after derailing the red hot 6-2 Pats on MNF in a game where the Pats were heavily favored and slowing down Manning twice in a row when Manning set the league on fire. Bob was convinced the timing was now right.

But Bill was 5-13 until Brady took over. The defense would've kept them in games, but the Pats couldn't do squat on offense with a $100M QB. It wasn't looking good for Bill had he not got competent QB play.

Sensational.

The guy tried everything and threw the kitchen sink but, in the end, he was gassed.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Sensational.

The guy tried everything and threw the kitchen sink but, in the end, he was gassed.

Oh they'll be something else.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Easy. Another losing season.

Probably/Maybe.

So he would have been fired after the 2001 season?

 

[upstater1]

He is a losing coach without Brady. He was before Brady, he was last year.
And this year, he will continue the trend: a loser.

I'm just using your logic but you're going back and forth and contradicting yourself constantly.

You wrote this earlier:

"He did not win without Brady. Period.
Prove me wrong. You cannot."

"Bill did not win without Brady.
"Brady won without BB."

You offered these as incontestable facts in order to reach your conclusion that Belichick rode Brady's coattails.

The facts are incontestable but, as I wrote, way too simplistic. We can apply the incontestable fact test to Jordan who didn't win without Phil Jackson. In fact, I also listed all the NFL great coaches who didn't win a championship in their first 4 years in the Super Bowl era.

I'd rather judge Belichick and Jordan by the things I know they did, rather than pretzel logic based off of these so-called "incontestable facts."

I mean, you're literally the only basketball fan I've ever known who gave Phil Jackson more credit than Michael Jordan. And I'd also note that you yourself said you were around 10 years old when all this was going on. The first half of Jordan's career was before your time.

 

[mariomega]

Oh they'll be something else.

Indeed, that guy is relentless.

 

[upstater1]

And?

If BB did not get the job done, he would've been fired, like my buddy TheRainMaker said.

If BB had many losing seasons, he would've been fired like every coach in history. But he didn't. What I contest is the idea that if he didn't have immediate success like he did he would have been fired by 2003. No, he wouldn't have been fired by then. Kraft isn't blind. He very well knew how Belichick transformed the Patriots defense 2001 through 2007. Belichick molded that defense into one of the all time greatest defenses in NFL history. You don't fire a coach like that. Not to mentioned the fact that adding Belichick in 1996 to be assistant head coach also transformed that D into a Super Bowl caliber D. Why do you think Kraft tried to hire him immediately afterward?