Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[crawhammer]

I corrected myself in another post, but in 2/3 of his super bowls he threw at least 1 pick. Plus the strip sacks in SB 42 and 52 along with the intentional grounding in the end zone in SB 46. The great things he has done in the SBs far outweighs his mistakes, but the point remains, he does make mistakes in big games. And Belichick has made big mistakes in big games too. It's not all on the coach, however, which is what the Bradyites what us to believe.

You did not correct yourself. In fact you doubled down on your claim with a slight qualifier. Like you're conversing with people who wouldn't be in tune with the facts. It took arm-twisting to have you whittle your argument down to the incredibly obvious...Brady isn't perfect all of the time.

Brady was great or clutch in every Super victory. He was phenomenal in SB 38, 49, 51 & 52. The last coming in a loss that he gets 0% of the blame pie. He had 48 pass attempts against an excellent defense with no picks, 3 TD's and a record shattering 505 yards. And he put those numbers up with no Edelman and Cooks departing early. He never should have been in the position of needing to drive the offense down the field again. The NE defense was historically putrid and squandered a great performance by the undermanned offense. The defense was undermanned as well but that was a result of Belichick's blind willfulness.

So yes, Brady made mistakes in Super Bowl games, obviously, and meaninglessly pointed out. He however did not make "big mistakes" that cost the team a championship.

This is an example of a big mistake costing a team a championship:

 

[sb1]

You did not correct yourself. In fact you doubled down on your claim with a slight qualifier. Like you're conversing with people who wouldn't be in tune with the facts. It took arm-twisting to have you whittle your argument down to the incredibly obvious...Brady isn't perfect all of the time.

Brady was great or clutch in every Super victory. He was phenomenal in SB 38, 49, 51 & 52. The last coming in a loss that he gets 0% of the blame pie. He had 48 pass attempts against an excellent defense with no picks, 3 TD's and a record shattering 505 yards. And he put those numbers up with no Edelman and Cooks departing early. He never should have been in the position of needing to drive the offense down the field again. The NE defense was historically putrid and squandered a great performance by the undermanned offense. The defense was undermanned as well but that was a result of Belichick's blind willfulness.

So yes, Brady made mistakes in Super Bowl games, obviously, and meaninglessly pointed out. He however did not make "big mistakes" that cost the team a championship.

This is an example of a big mistake costing a team a championship:

That was so fun to watch I know the call by memory lol. “Picked off.. look out! Gets past Manning and it’s Tracy Porter taking it ALL THE WAY! Touchdown New Orleans!”

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You did not correct yourself. In fact you doubled down on your claim with a slight qualifier. Like you're conversing with people who wouldn't be in tune with the facts. It took arm-twisting to have you whittle your argument down to the incredibly obvious...Brady isn't perfect all of the time.

Brady was great or clutch in every Super victory. He was phenomenal in SB 38, 49, 51 & 52. The last coming in a loss that he gets 0% of the blame pie. He had 48 pass attempts against an excellent defense with no picks, 3 TD's and a record shattering 505 yards. And he put those numbers up with no Edelman and Cooks departing early. He never should have been in the position of needing to drive the offense down the field again. The NE defense was historically putrid and squandered a great performance by the undermanned offense. The defense was undermanned as well but that was a result of Belichick's blind willfulness.

So yes, Brady made mistakes in Super Bowl games, obviously, and meaninglessly pointed out. He however did not make "big mistakes" that cost the team a championship.

This is an example of a big mistake costing a team a championship:

What's your point in talking about how phenomenal Brady was in the super bowl victories? It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, which is the mistakes both he and Bill made. You want to point out repeatedly that Bill cost the Pats 2-3 super bowls, but when it comes to Brady, you regard him as untouchable. Are you mad at Bill for not helping your Tommy get to 9 rings? You sound like a typical spoiled brat New England fan who was born after 1990.

Brady didn't make any big mistakes that cost his team championships? Um, ok...

SB 42: Strip sack by Justin Tuck at the 50-yard line that prevented NE from getting a FG at the end of the first half. Brady was going for the big play instead of the safe play. BTW, this FG would have come in handy at the end in a 17-14 NYG win.

SB46: Intentional grounding in the end zone that led to a safety. If it weren't for that, the score would have been 19-17 Giants when NE got the ball with 1 minute left in the 4th quarter, which means Brady only needed to get the Pats in FG range to win.

SB51: Strip sack by Brandon Graham, preventing NE from getting the game-winning touchdown. Brady was focused on hitting Gronk with a seam pass instead of going for the safe play like hitting James White for an easy first down.

Each of these big mistakes were absolutely costly.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I'll always appreciate Brady

 

[Biffins]

Let’s face it Brady is most known and celebrated for wins and championships and not so much for stats, plays that make you say wow, or “most talented” or anything like that. Other QBs are in these conversations ahead of Brady.

Therefore does this mean if Brady doesn’t win another title then it’s proof he needed Bill to win his titles and without Bill he’s only another one of many QBs who has never won a thing?

I don’t think so.

It’s fair at this point to give Brady more credit for the dynasty than Bill but both of their legacies are set no matter what.

BTW Brady is the current Passing TD leader in regular season and within spitting distance of Brees (by 1k yards) in passing yards. We already know his postseason records will likely never be broken but he also holds regular season records.

People always argue that Peyton doesn’t have SB wins but has stats. Brady has almost 50 more TDs and 7k more yards than Peyton!!

 

[Biffins]

2019 TB Offense: 28.6ppg. 398ypg
2020 TB Offense: 28.6ppg. 362ypg

Difference is in ints. Winston’s INTs gave up tons of points to the other team.

 

[Biffins]

That was very well-written.

...and an incredibly one-sided narrative.

What’s the other side?

 

[sb1]

What's your point in talking about how phenomenal Brady was in the super bowl victories? It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, which is the mistakes both he and Bill made. You want to point out repeatedly that Bill cost the Pats 2-3 super bowls, but when it comes to Brady, you regard him as untouchable. Are you mad at Bill for not helping your Tommy get to 9 rings? You sound like a typical spoiled brat New England fan who was born after 1990.

Brady didn't make any big mistakes that cost his team championships? Um, ok...

SB 42: Strip sack by Justin Tuck at the 50-yard line that prevented NE from getting a FG at the end of the first half. Brady was going for the big play instead of the safe play. BTW, this FG would have come in handy at the end in a 17-14 NYG win.

SB46: Intentional grounding in the end zone that led to a safety. If it weren't for that, the score would have been 19-17 Giants when NE got the ball with 1 minute left in the 4th quarter, which means Brady only needed to get the Pats in FG range to win.

SB51: Strip sack by Brandon Graham, preventing NE from getting the game-winning touchdown. Brady was focused on hitting Gronk with a seam pass instead of going for the safe play like hitting James White for an easy first down.

Each of these big mistakes were absolutely costly.

SB42: Bill electing to go for it on 4th and 13 from the Giants 32 was a much bigger blunder and IMO the game losing play. Changed the game completely.

SB46: Defense lost the game more than Brady did. Got run over by the last ranked rushing team in the NFL.

SB52: There was no guarantee they would have scored on that drive. They were on their own 33. And take away Brady’s performance and the pats probably lose something like 52-10 to Nick Foles.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

SB42: Bill electing to go for it on 4th and 13 from the Giants 32 was a much bigger blunder and IMO the game losing play. Changed the game completely.

SB46: Defense lost the game more than Brady did. Got run over by the last ranked rushing team in the NFL.

SB52: There was no guarantee they would have scored on that drive. They were on their own 33. And take away Brady’s performance and the pats probably lose something like 52-10 to Nick Foles.

SB42: Bill made a big mistake in not kicking the 50 yarder, but it's the same as Brady coughing the ball up at midfield. Both mistakes together cost us 6 points and an undefeated season.

SB46: The D was completely overmatched given their personnel. The Pats high scoring offense couldn't even muster 20 points. And you can't ask a D to play better in a SB game in terms of points allowed, especially since the Pats D was a bottom ranked defense.

SB52: Brady was great, but his mistake was costly. Yes, there is no guarantee they would have scored a TD, but there is no guarantee Butler would have helped either. I would like to think that Brady would have led the team the game winning TD since he has done it so many times - the likelihood of that happening is much greater IMO than Butler helping on D.

 

[XLIX]

Simms played on a team w LT. Nuff said.
6 year starter. Not a franchise qb. Replaceable, good:above avg but replace able.

Not to mention when Simms went down, Hostetler stepped in, and they were just as good (if not better) en route to their 2nd Super Bowl Championship when they beat the Bills in XXV.

 

[XLIX]

That was so fun to watch I know the call by memory lol. “Picked off.. look out! Gets past Manning and it’s Tracy Porter taking it ALL THE WAY! Touchdown New Orleans!”

I think that's the loudest I ever cheered a play in a game that did not involve NE.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I think that's the loudest I ever cheered a play in a game that did not involve NE.

Peyton's superbowl trackrecord isnt very good...

Wasn't his first victory not even really him playing well?
He then threw a game ender pick six to NO...
Destroyed by the legion of boom.....
Carried to his second ring..........

He will NEVER be the goat

 

[TheRainMaker]

SB42: Bill made a big mistake in not kicking the 50 yarder, but it's the same as Brady coughing the ball up at midfield. Both mistakes together cost us 6 points and an undefeated season.

Eli gave the Pats 3 INT's in the first quarter alone, but the D could only catch one. While he shouldn't have allowed it to get stolen from him, Pierre Woods got robbed by the refs as he clearly had possession before that smurf came in the pile. Bill not challenging that was a major possibly game changing blunder.

SB46: The D was completely overmatched given their personnel. The Pats high scoring offense couldn't even muster 20 points. And you can't ask a D to play better in a SB game in terms of points allowed, especially since the Pats D was a bottom ranked defense.

Yes you can and that's where stats can be misleading. Giants almost doubled there time of possession to the Pats at 37:05 to 22:55. While the Giants didn't score much, they kept the ball away from the Pats offense. The D could not get off the field. Pats going pass happy and Brady launching a stupid deep pass to a hobbled Gronk (which got INT) didn't help.

SB52: Brady was great, but his mistake was costly. Yes, there is no guarantee they would have scored a TD, but there is no guarantee Butler would have helped either. I would like to think that Brady would have led the team the game winning TD since he has done it so many times - the likelihood of that happening is much greater IMO than Butler helping on D.

I can guarantee you he would've played better than his replacements Eric Rowe (worst ranked CB in the NFL that year), Jordan Richards and Johnson Bademosi.

 

[203Pat]

You guys are arguing with a troll who doesn't even believe what he is saying.

 

[XLIX]

Peyton's superbowl trackrecord isnt very good...

Wasn't his first victory not even really him playing well?
He then threw a game ender pick six to NO...
Destroyed by the legion of boom.....
Carried to his second ring..........

He will NEVER be the goat

250 yards per game, total of 3 TD’s and 5 INT’s in 4 games.

Not good.

 

[sb1]

250 yards per game, total of 3 TD’s and 5 INT’s in 4 games.

Not good.

I thought he had 3 Super Bowl pick 6’s too. I can only think of 2 of them - Tracy Porter and Malcolm Smith. Can’t remember who had the other one.

 

[sb1]

Eli gave the Pats 3 INT's in the first quarter alone, but the D could only catch one. While he shouldn't have allowed it to get stolen from him, Pierre Woods got robbed by the refs as he clearly had possession before that smurf came in the pile. Bill not challenging that was a major possibly game changing blunder.

Yes you can and that's where stats can be misleading. Giants almost doubled there time of possession to the Pats at 37:05 to 22:55. While the Giants didn't score much, they kept the ball away from the Pats offense. The D could not get off the field. Pats going pass happy and Brady launching a stupid deep pass to a hobbled Gronk (which got INT) didn't help.

I can guarantee you he would've played better than his replacements Eric Rowe (worst ranked CB in the NFL that year), Jordan Richards and Johnson Bademosi.

I think Weatherford (Giants punter) killed us with field position too in SB46.

 

[Biffins]

Yeah that’s not how it works.

Tell me how "market rate" works.

If LT is paid more than LG, LT is worth more than LG?
If OC is paid more than Special Teams coach, OC is worth more?
if X receiver is paid more than slot receiver, X receiver is worth more?

What did I say so controversial. If you are paid more, you are worth more.

 

[Biffins]

Blame Tom for being a ****ty negotiator

haha so for years what he did for the good of the team, and helped us win championships, is Tom being a ****ty negotiator and something we should take advantage of and BB is great for kicking him to the curb now? Great. WTH!

 

[Ring 6]

Tell me how "market rate" works.

If LT is paid more than LG, LT is worth more than LG?
If OC is paid more than Special Teams coach, OC is worth more?
if X receiver is paid more than slot receiver, X receiver is worth more?

What did I say so controversial. If you are paid more, you are worth more.

You are not comparing competing prices. The “market” for a player under a capped (and flooded) system is a different market than coaches. Coaches are not subject to the cap. Coaches have something like a 40 year career window while 15 is a ton for players. Therefore there are more candidates, which affects the market.
Your argument would say a stripper is with more than a teacher, nurse or firefighter because they get paid more.