Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[Ring 6]

haha so for years what he did for the good of the team, and helped us win championships, is Tom being a ****ty negotiator and something we should take advantage of and BB is great for kicking him to the curb now? Great. WTH!

Belichick didn’t kick him to the curb, Brady walked out

 

[Ring 6]

Not to mention when Simms went down, Hostetler stepped in, and they were just as good (if not better) en route to their 2nd Super Bowl Championship when they beat the Bills in XXV.

They were a dominant team that overcame losing Simms but no way they were better without him.

 

[TheRainMaker]

haha so for years what he did for the good of the team, and helped us win championships, is Tom being a ****ty negotiator and something we should take advantage of and BB is great for kicking him to the curb now? Great. WTH!

I agree Bill should've kept Brady as long as he could, but I don't think Bill kicked him to the curb. It's more like Tom didn't trust him anymore after the way the 2019 draft and the season played out. Bill signed a bunch of castoffs at WR which none of them stayed (not surprising). He brought back Gordon who quit on the team a year earlier, messed up again and got released. Drafts ONLY one WR. The nail in the coffin was releasing Brown when they didn't have to, trading a 2nd for Sanu and then making him return a punt which he's only done once in his career. He got injured and the Pats were bare at WR again. Brady had no choice after a string of Bill's bad decisions.

They were lucky as heck to win the Super Bowl in 2018.

 

[Boomer B]

Belichick didn’t kick him to the curb, Brady walked out

BS. Bill had 3 straight years he could have given a multi year contract to Brady. Brady wanted a commitment of over 1 year. Bill wouldn’t give it. Instead he kept giving Brady incentive laden 1 year deals. Bill for all his great attributes blew it with the way it ended with Brady. Instead of seeing the GOAT finish with the Pats, we get to watch Cam throw worse then a high school QB.

 

[festy1986]

Finding it difficult to see how brady would lose the seattle, buffalo, denver and miami games if presented the exact same scenario.

Can't say what would of happened but I like our chances in those games to go our way if brady was here.

 

[Ring 6]

BS. Bill had 3 straight years he could have given a multi year contract to Brady. Brady wanted a commitment of over 1 year. Bill wouldn’t give it. Instead he kept giving Brady incentive laden 1 year deals. Bill for all his great attributes blew it with the way it ended with Brady. Instead of seeing the GOAT finish with the Pats, we get to watch Cam throw worse then a high school QB.

Brady could have gotten the same 2 year contract Tampa gave him. Long term contracts to 40+ players only make sense once in a while in hindsight.
If anything belichick misread Brady’s commitment to the organization.

 

[lancerman]

Finding it difficult to see how brady would lose the seattle, buffalo, denver and miami games if presented the exact same scenario.

Can't say what would of happened but I like our chances in those games to go our way if brady was here.

Sure. He wouldn’t be presented the exact same scenario

 

[Ring 6]

Finding it difficult to see how brady would lose the seattle, buffalo, denver and miami games if presented the exact same scenario.

Can't say what would of happened but I like our chances in those games to go our way if brady was here.

Find it difficult to believe any average Qb would have lost those, not to mention the Houston game.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure. He wouldn’t be presented the exact same scenario

Right he would have had them in a better situation by, you know, being better than the stiff that was in there.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady has just had two of the best halves of his career. The 5 TD passes in one quarter against Tennessee in 2009 was pretty impressive. He obliterated Miami's defense in 2007, during that phenomenal season, that game was pretty close to perfect. But he's never looked any better than he has in his last 4 quarters... 668 yards, 6 TD's, 0 INT's and 65 points.

The Bucs offense is rounding into form just at the right time with Brady at the helm. He's still capable of playing at an elite level and proving himself without Belichick who meanwhile is laying a gigantic turd with another quarterback.

 

[Boomer B]

Brady could have gotten the same 2 year contract Tampa gave him. Long term contracts to 40+ players only make sense once in a while in hindsight.
If anything belichick misread Brady’s commitment to the organization.

???? The Pats never offered him that deal. It’s been very clearly reported that after 2017 (when Brady was MVP) that Bill was only willing to go year to year and wouldn’t guarantee the $, Brady had to earn incentives. Brady wanted a multi year contract and when Bill wouldn’t budge during training camp 2019 Brady said he’d only sign the 1 year deal if they couldn’t tag him when it’s done. Bill agreed, knowing he would likely lose him. If Bill had offered him a multi year deal Brady would still be here.

 

[XLIX]

They were a dominant team that overcame losing Simms but no way they were better without him.

They were way the f*ck better with Hostetler than Simms. They had lost 3 of their last 4 under Simms. Hostetler came in and won 5 in a row - 3 of which were playoff games. They lost in the regular season to SF and Buffalo under Simms, then beat both those teams in the playoffs with Hostetler. Hostetler threw for twice as many yards per game as Simms and, oh by the way, ran for 97 yards per game (Simms ran for less than 5 yards per game).

Zero chance they win SB25 without that injury.

 

[XLIX]

???? The Pats never offered him that deal. It’s been very clearly reported that after 2017 (when Brady was MVP) that Bill was only willing to go year to year and wouldn’t guarantee the $, Brady had to earn incentives. Brady wanted a multi year contract and when Bill wouldn’t budge during training camp 2019 Brady said he’d only sign the 1 year deal if they couldn’t tag him when it’s done. Bill agreed, knowing he would likely lose him. If Bill had offered him a multi year deal Brady would still be here.

He is making things up out of thin air. Everything you wrote above is correct.

 

[1960Pats]

You did not correct yourself. In fact you doubled down on your claim with a slight qualifier. Like you're conversing with people who wouldn't be in tune with the facts. It took arm-twisting to have you whittle your argument down to the incredibly obvious...Brady isn't perfect all of the time.

Brady was great or clutch in every Super victory. He was phenomenal in SB 38, 49, 51 & 52. The last coming in a loss that he gets 0% of the blame pie. He had 48 pass attempts against an excellent defense with no picks, 3 TD's and a record shattering 505 yards. And he put those numbers up with no Edelman and Cooks departing early. He never should have been in the position of needing to drive the offense down the field again. The NE defense was historically putrid and squandered a great performance by the undermanned offense. The defense was undermanned as well but that was a result of Belichick's blind willfulness.

So yes, Brady made mistakes in Super Bowl games, obviously, and meaninglessly pointed out. He however did not make "big mistakes" that cost the team a championship.

This is an example of a big mistake costing a team a championship:

They call that a come from ahead victory.

That was the Saints team that crushed the Pats during the season.

 

[crawhammer]

???? The Pats never offered him that deal. It’s been very clearly reported that after 2017 (when Brady was MVP) that Bill was only willing to go year to year and wouldn’t guarantee the $, Brady had to earn incentives. Brady wanted a multi year contract and when Bill wouldn’t budge during training camp 2019 Brady said he’d only sign the 1 year deal if they couldn’t tag him when it’s done. Bill agreed, knowing he would likely lose him. If Bill had offered him a multi year deal Brady would still be here.

Brady had fully intended on ending his career as a Patriot. Belichick pushed him out of town in a multitude of ways, all of which have been previously referenced. Belichick is arrogant and stubborn. It cost the team a Super Bowl (52). It's why Gronk "retired." It's why the Patriots led the league in opt-outs. His schtick with the media is totally ridiculous too. Just answer the damn questions.

 

[Ring 6]

???? The Pats never offered him that deal. It’s been very clearly reported that after 2017 (when Brady was MVP) that Bill was only willing to go year to year and wouldn’t guarantee the $, Brady had to earn incentives. Brady wanted a multi year contract and when Bill wouldn’t budge during training camp 2019 Brady said he’d only sign the 1 year deal if they couldn’t tag him when it’s done. Bill agreed, knowing he would likely lose him. If Bill had offered him a multi year deal Brady would still be here.

They would have signed him to that deal this year. Year to year is completely wrong, he never signed a one year contract.

 

[1960Pats]

Brady had fully intended on ending his career as a Patriot. Belichick pushed him out of town in a multitude of ways, all of which have been previously referenced. Belichick is arrogant and stubborn. It cost the team a Super Bowl (52). It's why Gronk "retired." It's why the Patriots led the league in opt-outs. His schtick with the media is totally ridiculous too. Just answer the damn questions.

It was noted by many in the beginning that Bill's schtick wouldn't work if the team was losing. We're seeing that now. His sarcastic "great question" comment to Lou Merloni recently made him look like a jerk, especially since the question was appropriate considering that the Pats had just been eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[Ring 6]

They were way the f*ck better with Hostetler than Simms. They had lost 3 of their last 4 under Simms. Hostetler came in and won 5 in a row - 3 of which were playoff games. They lost in the regular season to SF and Buffalo under Simms, then beat both those teams in the playoffs with Hostetler. Hostetler threw for twice as many yards per game as Simms and, oh by the way, ran for 97 yards per game (Simms ran for less than 5 yards per game).

Zero chance they win SB25 without that injury.

We will have to disagree. They won despite hostetler. They barely beat the 1-15 patriots. The offense struggled after Simms went down.

 

[Ring 6]

It was noted by many in the beginning that Bill's schtick wouldn't work if the team was losing. We're seeing that now. His sarcastic "great question" comment to Lou Merloni recently made him look like a jerk, especially since the question was appropriate considering that the Pats had just been eliminated from the playoffs.

Who cares?

 

[1960Pats]

They would have signed him to that deal this year. Year to year is completely wrong, he never signed a one year contract.

You don't know that.