Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[Doctor DDS]

I could have sworn it was BB that drafted Brady, helped develop him and created the game plans to maximize his strengths. He gets credit for Brady's success so I really do not understand how we could bifurcate importance. Brady did not come into the league like Jordan or LeBron and was going to be a superstar no matter what. BB is certainly not magical and just like every coach in every sport he needs great players to be successful. If Andy Reid retires at end of year I doubt we'd anoint his replacement as a top coach just because he'd likely win 11+ games with the talent on that roster nor kill Harbaugh if he takes over the Jets and wins 5 games. Context matters. BB took over a bad Browns team and was moving them in the right direction before Modell happened. I do not dismiss his record there but also do not use it as a hammer any more than I would label Bill Parcells as average for going 32-32 in his 4 years with the Patriots.

I love Brady and he is the GOAT but without BB acquiring the right talent for the right price and developing brilliant game plans this run would have been much less. They both needed each other for this run to happen.

 

[XLIX]

I think it does matter. Players improve and so do coaches. There's a break in continuity there too as Bill also stopped being a HC for 5 or so years. Plus like I said, Bill's record in his final year comes with an asterisk because the franchise had the plug pulled so that's completely worthless in this discussion.

As for Brady I like this quote: "Great players need coaches and great coaches need players". That quote is from Brady himself and I agree with it.

The Belichick-krishnas pretty much want to attach an asterisk to every year the guy coached without Brady except for 2008.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

How long ago it was doesn’t matter. You can’t just pretend 5 years didn’t happen, then call 2 other seasons rebuilding years, but then talk about 1.25 seasons as the real story.

Like I said, 8 seasons without Brady, that’s a large enough sample that guys in the HOF have been able to make their case with just a tad bit more.

It matters in this discussion. No Brady would not have 6 rings without Bill. But players matter more

Based on your logic, Bill Walsh was nothing without Montana because he was 8-24 before Montana was named the starter in SF. Do you want to go there?

 

[RobertWeathers]

No but Edelman missed most of a season and Brady still won.

When? 2017 when he had a plethora of offensive talent?

 

[sb1]

The Belichick-krishnas pretty much want to attach an asterisk to every year the guy coached without Brady except for 2008.

I can't speak for anyone else but I will never acknowledge a season like Bill's last in Cleveland where the plug gets pulled on the franchise as the fault of the coach. The W-L that year is completely worthless in this converation.

 

[XLIX]

I can't speak for anyone else but I will never acknowledge a season like Bill's last in Cleveland where the plug gets pulled on the franchise as the fault of the coach.

Seems to me that one of the jobs of the HC is to get the team to focus past distractions.

Why do I have the feeling that if he was 11-5 with a playoff win that year, you'd have no problem including it in the totals?

 

[sb1]

Seems to me that one of the jobs of the HC is to get the team to focus past distractions.

Why do I have the feeling that if he was 11-5 with a playoff win that year, you'd have no problem including it in the totals?

No. An injury is a distraction. A controversy like Deflategate is a distraction. Having the franchise terminated is not a "distraction". It's an execution date.

You're not seriously questioning Bill's ability to focus past distractions are you? How did the Deflategate Super Bowl turn out?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Seems to me that one of the jobs of the HC is to get the team to focus past distractions.

Why do I have the feeling that if he was 11-5 with a playoff win that year, you'd have no problem including it in the totals?

you mean distractions like this?

 

[IllegalContact]

Seems to me that one of the jobs of the HC is to get the team to focus past distractions.

Why do I have the feeling that if he was 11-5 with a playoff win that year, you'd have no problem including it in the totals?

Tom Brady is gone.......there is no Tom Brady

 

[sb1]

you mean distractions like this?

I really wish Brady didn't do that.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I really wish Brady didn't do that.

If the laugh wasn't bad enough, he literally asked "Is Plax playing defense?," pissing off the entire Giants D in the process....

 

[sb1]

If the laugh wasn't bad enough, he literally asked "Is Plax playing defense?," pissing off the entire Giants D in the process....

At least one Giants player (Strahan?) said the team "saw red" when they saw that. Understandably so. The 2001-2004 Patriots would have reacted the same way if they saw an opponent do something like that.

There was also "well read the rulebook" and we know what happened after that.

It's a complete myth that only Belichick has an ego and Brady doesn't. All the greats do or they wouldn't be greats.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Sad world we live in when something like this even becomes a "debate" in the first place

Even more sad that people feel this "debate" is now over, implying some empirical evidence exists to support that

Can't make this stuff up folks

 

[The Brandon Five]

In the last 7 games Tampa Bay has scored 10 points in the first quarter. That is 10 points total in 7 games.

I am thinking coaching might be at least a little important.

Pats didn't score in the first quarter of any Super Bowl until SB LII, so the Bucs are in post-season form already!

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It's a complete myth that only Belichick has an ego and Brady doesn't. All the greats do or they wouldn't be greats.

This myth is being promoted by the same folks who think that Brady was exclusively responsible for the dynasty and Belichick was a bum. I don't know why they can't just acknowledge that both individuals played significant roles in NE's success. Brady's ego is much more hidden IMO. I can almost vouch that he signed with TB just to shove it up Belichick's rear. He put Bill in a difficult spot asking him to sign a 43-year-old to a multi-year deal. In his mind, he can play like an elite QB until he's 50, but that makes it difficult for BIll who has to put the best interests of the team ahead of Brady.

 

[JPsPats]

Brady was much more important than Belichick. The way I’ve always viewed it, coaches coach, players play.

You can have the best coaches, but if you don’t have the players to execute it doesn’t matter who is coaching.

Now when you match great coaching with great players, that’s when dynasties are formed.

Patriots: Brady & BB, Spurs: Pop & Duncan, Golden State: Kerr & Durant/Curry, Lakers: Jackson & Kobe/Shaq, Bulls: Jackson & MJ

 

[amfootball]

Brady was much more important than Belichick. The way I’ve always viewed it, coaches coach, players play.

You can have the best coaches, but if you don’t have the players to execute it doesn’t matter who is coaching.

Now when you match great coaching with great players, that’s when dynasties are formed.

Patriots: Brady & BB, Spurs: Pop & Duncan, Golden State: Kerr & Durant/Curry, Lakers: Jackson & Kobe/Shaq, Bulls: Jackson & MJ

Spot on. My view too.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You can have the best coaches, but if you don’t have the players to execute it doesn’t matter who is coaching.

The vice versa is true as well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sad world we live in when something like this even becomes a "debate" in the first place

Even more sad that people feel this "debate" is now over, implying some empirical evidence exists to support that

Can't make this stuff up folks

Fans typically gravitate to the players more than to coaches.

Especially now when Tom is gone and BB is here.

 

[DaBruinz]

8 seasons is a large sample size. Below .500 coach. Legendary with Goat Qb. It's not damning. Just answers the question of who was more responsible for the dynasty.

Except it's not 8 seasons. Brady was on this team in 2000. And he was on the team in 2008. Counting the 5 seasons when Brady was in JR. High and High School is completely asinine.

Your question doesn't have a SINGULAR answer. That's what you fail to understand.