Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[RobertWeathers]

28-3 was definitely divination.

Granted.

 

[pazrul72]

Brady turned it around in 2001. 0-2 and headed for 5-11 again and getting fired for the second time until the GOAT took the field.

Quick question just to see how well you remember 2001. Who was more important that year Tom Brady or Antwain Smith?

 

[TheRainMaker]

The biggest switches was Brady coming in at QB in 2001 when we were 0-2 and going nowhere

This. It's laughable people actually want to believe that Brady just came in and was just "along for the ride" in 2001 when the D was middle of the pack and Offense had average skill players. If Brady wasn't doing enough, why didn't BB just reinsert Bledsoe when he came back from injury? Or how about Damon Huard?

Brady was outperforming Bledsoe in camp, but there was $100M reasons why BB had to roll with him going into the season.

Quick question just to see how well you remember 2001. Who was more important that year Tom Brady or Antwain Smith?

Is this a joke?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Quick question just to see how well you remember 2001. Who was more important that year Tom Brady or Antwain Smith?

That's not a black n white answer bro.

A strong case can be made for both. Plus Troy Brown who carried the O and STs

 

[pazrul72]

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Walsh took over a franchise with very little talent who had finished 2-14 the year before. He had to revamp that entire roster and implement the West Coast offence.

Bill had some good building blocks when he joined the Pats. Future Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers. Law, McGinnest, Bruschi, Brown, Vinatieri

Both needed the best QBs of their era to be dominant.

This is revisionists history at its best. Except for Law and Milloy the pats were seen as completely talentless and as one writer opinioned “lest likely to win a SB in the next 5 years.” Bruschi didn’t break out and become a pro bowl caliber player until 2003 or 4. Brown never had more then 50 catches prior to 2001 and you are the first person I think ever to talk about a kicker adding to a teams “talent”. McGinnest was on the expansion list for the Texans to be able to select because up to that point he was injured a lot and had massively underachieved. It wasn’t until Bill came along that they became household names. Even the worst NFL team of all time will have 2-3 really good players, it’s up to the coaches to get the most out of them. Go read Tony Gonzalezes account of playing for Bill in the pro bowl. It’s the best example from an unbiased source I can think of to show how good Bill is.

 

[sb1]

Quick question just to see how well you remember 2001. Who was more important that year Tom Brady or Antwain Smith?

I think Smith was a worthy Super Bowl MVP candidate in SB36. Over 5 YPC against the 3rd ranked run defense in the league.

My ballot would have gone 1) Law 2) Smith 3) Brady. AV in the conversation too but he only kicked twice.

 

[pazrul72]

This. It's laughable people actually want to believe that Brady just came in and was just "along for the ride" in 2001 when the D was middle of the pack and Offense had average skill players. If Brady wasn't doing enough, why didn't BB just reinsert Bledsoe when he came back from injury? Or how about Damon Huard?

Brady was outperforming Bledsoe in camp, but there was $100M reasons why BB had to roll with him going into the season.


Is this a joke?

No, no joke. I actually watched that 2001 season and remember it fondly. Brady had multiple 4 interception games that year. He was asked to make safe easy throws 95% of the time. That offense did not score a ton of points but they were methodical about getting the D rest and not going 3 and out. I would argue Smith was more important to THAT team as being consistent was more important then being flashy. He got 20-25 carries a game and yeah got 80 yards and sometimes a TD but he was the workhorse the D needed to keep games close.

let’s revisit that post season. 16-13 Raiders, One offensive TD the whole game Brady sneaking it in. 24-17 Pittsburg, Two special team TDs and Bledsoe’s lone contribution to the SB season. 20-17 Rams, Laws pick six and again One TD from the offense. **** cam’s offense has better numbers then that. It’s revisionist history to say Brady was good that year. He wasn’t. What he was, was incredibly clutch and not prone to making mistakes. The defense and special teams absolutely carried him and he let them which is why Brass Balls Bill stuck with him.

 

[sb1]

Brady turned it around in 2001. 0-2 and headed for 5-11 again and getting fired for the second time until the GOAT took the field.

If Bill stayed with Bledsoe extremely doubtful he gets fired after the season. Maybe if his team crashes and burns in 2002 his seat warms up a little but doubtful even then. Definitely not after 2001, not when the team forked over what they did to get Bill from the Jets.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Except for Law and Milloy the pats were seen as completely talentless and as one writer opinioned “lest likely to win a SB in the next 5 years.”

I agree. Both Law and Milloy were having down years from 1999-2000. Law was up and down during his time with BB with 2001, 2003 (best) and 2004 (unitl he got injured) as his good years and 2000 and 2002 as his down years. Milloy was bad in 2000 and 2002.

Bruschi didn’t break out and become a pro bowl caliber player until 2003 or 4.

2003 was definitely his best year.

McGinnest was on the expansion list for the Texans to be able to select because up to that point he was injured a lot and had massively underachieved.

Yeah he was a disappointment until his role changed with BB. Becoming a stand up OLB help his career tremendously.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If Bill stayed with Bledsoe extremely doubtful he gets fired after the season. Maybe if his team crashes and burns in 2002 his seat warms up a little but doubtful even then. Definitely not after 2001, not when the team forked over what they did to get Bill from the Jets.

He definitely would've been canned in 2002 had they finished 2001 with a losing record and continued on in 2002. A major media talking head (will not name) had said Assistant Coaches were strongly considered selling their houses as they thought BB and the entire coaching staff was going to get fired after the 2001 0-2 start.

 

[Boomer B]

This is revisionists history at its best. Except for Law and Milloy the pats were seen as completely talentless and as one writer opinioned “lest likely to win a SB in the next 5 years.” Bruschi didn’t break out and become a pro bowl caliber player until 2003 or 4. Brown never had more then 50 catches prior to 2001 and you are the first person I think ever to talk about a kicker adding to a teams “talent”. McGinnest was on the expansion list for the Texans to be able to select because up to that point he was injured a lot and had massively underachieved. It wasn’t until Bill came along that they became household names. Even the worst NFL team of all time will have 2-3 really good players, it’s up to the coaches to get the most out of them. Go read Tony Gonzalezes account of playing for Bill in the pro bowl. It’s the best example from an unbiased source I can think of to show how good Bill is.

I never said Bill wasn’t good. He’s the best coach of his era.

I said Bill Walsh inherited a different caliber team then Belichick. The 49ers were 2-14 when Walsh came in. The Patriots were 8-8 when Belichick took over and had been to the playoffs 3 of the prior 4 years including a SB. They had a young core of talent, especially on D.

McGinnest massively underachieved? He was a pro bowler in 1996 and had 9 sacks the year before Bill arrived. If you don’t think Adam Vinatieri should be listed as a talented player Bill inherited then I don’t think you watched too many Pats games back then.

 

[sb1]

He definitely would've been canned in 2002 had they finished 2001 with a losing record and continued on in 2002. A major media talking head (will not name) had said Assistant Coaches were strongly considered selling their houses as they thought BB and the entire coaching staff was going to get fired after the 2001 0-2 start.

I remember that rumor but I never thought that going to happen. I really can't see it after they coughed up a first and draft picks for Bill the year before.

 

[TheRainMaker]

McGinnest massively underachieved? He was a pro bowler in 1996 and had 9 sacks the year before Bill arrived.

Yeah, but there was always something bothering him and wasn't reliable at all.

 

[PatsWSB47]

you mean distractions like this?

Johnny on the spot with something to mock Brady with once again. Please change your troll screen name.

 

[pazrul72]

I never said Bill wasn’t good. He’s the best coach of his era.

I said Bill Walsh inherited a different caliber team then Belichick. The 49ers were 2-14 when Walsh came in. The Patriots were 8-8 when Belichick took over and had been to the playoffs 3 of the prior 4 years including a SB. They had a young core of talent, especially on D.

McGinnest massively underachieved? He was a pro bowler in 1996 and had 9 sacks the year before Bill arrived. If you don’t think Adam Vinatieri should be listed as a talented player Bill inherited then I don’t think you watched too many Pats games back then.

Of course Vinatieri is a talented player, I just said you are the first person I think I have ever heard of that brought up a kicker when talking about a teams “talent”. Part of why BB was brought in was that 8-8 team had declined each of those 3 years. They were massively over paying guys like Max Lane and Todd Rucchi on past performance. Not to mention rotten luck with draft picks like Edwards and Katz. Except for Law and Milloy I have no idea what young core of talent you are talking about. Terry Glenn maybe? But he was a nut case. BB brought in over 30 FA so there was no core until he replaced it with smart dependable vets who bought into his system.

 

[PatsWSB47]

No, no joke. I actually watched that 2001 season and remember it fondly. Brady had multiple 4 interception games that year. He was asked to make safe easy throws 95% of the time. That offense did not score a ton of points but they were methodical about getting the D rest and not going 3 and out. I would argue Smith was more important to THAT team as being consistent was more important then being flashy. He got 20-25 carries a game and yeah got 80 yards and sometimes a TD but he was the workhorse the D needed to keep games close.

let’s revisit that post season. 16-13 Raiders, One offensive TD the whole game Brady sneaking it in. 24-17 Pittsburg, Two special team TDs and Bledsoe’s lone contribution to the SB season. 20-17 Rams, Laws pick six and again One TD from the offense. **** cam’s offense has better numbers then that. It’s revisionist history to say Brady was good that year. He wasn’t. What he was, was incredibly clutch and not prone to making mistakes. The defense and special teams absolutely carried him and he let them which is why Brass Balls Bill stuck with him.

Exavtly. Interception this easy throw that. Brady in the clutch is what separates him. He did it nmultiple games that year. Rather have that than perfect regular season guys like Peyton

 

[TheRainMaker]

No, no joke. I actually watched that 2001 season and remember it fondly. Brady had multiple 4 interception games that year. He was asked to make safe easy throws 95% of the time. That offense did not score a ton of points but they were methodical about getting the D rest and not going 3 and out. I would argue Smith was more important to THAT team as being consistent was more important then being flashy. He got 20-25 carries a game and yeah got 80 yards and sometimes a TD but he was the workhorse the D needed to keep games close.

Passing in that era was a lot harder than it is today and Brady was a 1st year starter. Mistakes were going to happen. But again, if Brady wasn't that important/effective overall, why not just go back to Bledsoe as you're paying him $100M?

let’s revisit that post season. 16-13 Raiders, One offensive TD the whole game Brady sneaking it in.

Their Cinderella story would've ended had their not been a snow storm. Raiders would've ran them off the field as BB flat out could not matchup with West Coast style offenses. Brady wouldn't have been able to handle a shoot out.

24-17 Pittsburg, Two special team TDs and Bledsoe’s lone contribution to the SB season. 20-17 Rams, Laws pick six and again One TD from the offense. **** cam’s offense has better numbers then that. It’s revisionist history to say Brady was good that year. He wasn’t. What he was, was incredibly clutch and not prone to making mistakes. The defense and special teams absolutely carried him and he let them which is why Brass Balls Bill stuck with him.

I agree with this, but they don't get their playoff positioning without Brady playing well enough.

 

[pazrul72]

Passing in that era was a lot harder than it is today and Brady was a 1st year starter. Mistakes were going to happen. But again, if Brady wasn't that important/effective overall, why not just go back to Bledsoe as you're paying him $100M?

In a word, Style. BB believes, IMO, that it is easier to win with a less talented but consistent player then it is with a megastar that flashes but makes mistakes. Player A throws for 157 yards 1 TD 0 INTs. Player B throws for 312 yards 3 TDs and 2 INTs. Who is the better player?

 

[Jim Beankie]

Poll needs a third option.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Johnny on the spot with something to mock Brady with once again. Please change your troll screen name.

How is this particular post trolling? Did it hurt your feelings?