Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[farn]

Because every season counts. You don't get to eliminate the ones you don't like. Bill got better when he got Brady as his QB. Now with Brady gone he is sub .500 again.

HoF coaches can often be associated to excellent QB play. Shula, Walsh, Jimmy J come to mind. Conversely, there are quite a few HoF QBs w/o multiple SB trophies.

If it’s « all the QB », why couldn’t Kelly & Marino win the SB ?

 

[amfootball]

HoF coaches can often be associated to excellent QB play. Shula, Walsh, Jimmy J come to mind. Conversely, there are quite a few HoF QBs w/o multiple SB trophies.

If it’s « all the QB », why couldn’t Kelly & Marino win the SB ?

Again, another strawman. No one is saying Bill is not the GOAT HC. The discussion is who is more responsible for the dynasty.

 

[203Pat]

I’m just wondering how many non playoff years Bill gets a pass on. What if we see this similar team next year? No answer at QB with a lackluster offense and around 6-8 wins? Then the year after he somehow finds a young QB then how long?

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I’m just wondering how many non playoff years Bill gets a pass on. What if we see this similar team next year? No answer at QB with a lackluster offense and around 6-8 wins? Then the year after he somehow finds a young QB then how long?

I think Bill has earned himself a pass for this season and next.

Next season I want to see better QB play and also a foundation going forward. I expect this team to be competitive by 2022.

 

[farn]

Again, another strawman. No one is saying Bill is not the GOAT HC. The discussion is who is more responsible for the dynasty.

check the posts. There are many here who don’t want to acknowledge BB’s greatness. The « check his record w/o Brady » crowd, for instance.

I am choosing BB. But I feel that if I don’t praise Brady, I’ll get accused of being a hater. I love me players like Brady.

BB was able to manipulate the cap, deal with spoiled millionnaire millennials, get every person in that building working towards the ultimate goal... BB knows the playbook more than anyone. He’s the main reason, imo.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

He was 29. Not making the playoffs does not mean he was not in his prime. He had went to the Super Bowl at 25.

Gee, cam Went to a Super Bowl at 25 too...

 

[amfootball]

check the posts. There are many here who don’t want to acknowledge BB’s greatness. The « check his record w/o Brady » crowd, for instance.

I am choosing BB. But I feel that if I don’t praise Brady, I’ll get accused of being a hater. I love me players like Brady.

BB was able to manipulate the cap, deal with spoiled millionnaire millennials, get every person in that building working towards the ultimate goal... BB knows the playbook more than anyone. He’s the main reason, imo.

You don't have to apologize for your opinion.

 

[patfanken]

Brady hasn't done anything yet other than beaten Green Bay. Let's see if Tampa can win a play-off game first.,. THEN the talk of being able to do things away from BB might be considered..

See that's the thing I'm fighting about. Brady didn't "beat" GB, and Brady won't succeed or fail in the playoffs BY HIM SELF. Brady will succeed or fail because his TEAM will succeed or fail. THAT is the nature of the game of football. Its a game where NO player or even a small group of players can succeed or fail by themselves. It takes 53 guys all pulling in one direction along with great coaching to win in the NFL and even THEN when you HAVE all that, the margin of error is still very small as we saw when the Rams LOST to the Jets

 

[farn]

You don't have to apologize for your opinion.

You must be new to Patsfans. Heehee.

 

[203Pat]

I think Bill has earned himself a pass for this season and next.

Next season I want to see better QB play and also a foundation going forward. I expect this team to be competitive by 2022.

I agree to an extent unless he does nothing to upgrade the QB position next year. If we go into the year with Cam, Stidham, and some other late rounder then I won’t be willing to cut him as much slack.

 

[Kdo5]

The obvious, and boring, answer to "who is responsible?" is that they both helped make each other as great as they were/are.

Brady was absolutely the more important piece of our dominance. Brady left for Tampa Bay and once again will be in the playoffs. And if you've watched much of the Bucs this season, Brady is a big reason for it. That team has a lot of flaws, including the coaching. Meanwhile Bill's team has floundered after a terrible decision to go with Cam Newton & Jarrett Stidham. He's still a great coach (this year not so much) but that Patriots culture talk? Doesn't seem to mean much without a great QB.

 

[Triumph]

DA isn't on the 2020 Patriots.

No but Edelman missed most of a season and Brady still won.

 

[Kdo5]

Doubtful. Bills are a much better football team everywhere.

Pats probably would get to the playoffs as a WC - not a guarantee but probably. Not further than that though.

I think the Pats with Brady would have won the division this year or at least it would be a dead heat. There's been too many Pats losses this year where had we had more competent QB play things would be different. If Tom Brady were on this team we win the Denver, Buffalo and KC games. I'd have us at 9-5 at least.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I think the Pats with Brady would have won the division this year or at least it would be a dead heat. There's been too many Pats losses this year where had we had more competent QB play things would be different. If Tom Brady were on this team we win the Denver, Buffalo and KC games. I'd have us at 9-5 at least.

I think with Brady we finish 10-6 or 11-5.

 

[Kdo5]

I think with Brady we finish 10-6 or 11-5.

That's where I'd put us at. And if we give ourselves the Buffalo game from earlier in the season that would be a legit chance at two more losses for the Bills and us having around the same record.

 

[Ring 6]

That was not the discussion. You do realize that in 8 seasons without Brady, Bill is a sub .500 coach? The thread is about the entire dynasty and who is most responsible. That is what is being discussed not just this season in a vacuum.

So your argument is if you ignore his 20 best seasons then he has a losing record with essentially garbage at the most important spot in the team?
Wow, how damning.

 

[Ring 6]

I think with Brady we finish 10-6 or 11-5.

With an average qb they are at least 9-5 today.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

With an average qb they are at least 9-5 today.

Cam single handily destroyed the dynasty

Idk if i'm sad or impressed!

 

[amfootball]

So your argument is if you ignore his 20 best seasons then he has a losing record with essentially garbage at the most important spot in the team?
Wow, how damning.

8 seasons is a large sample size. Below .500 coach. Legendary with Goat Qb. It's not damning. Just answers the question of who was more responsible for the dynasty.

 

[Ring 6]

Cam single handily destroyed the dynasty

Idk if i'm sad or impressed!

Nah the dynasty isn’t dead it just needed to be reset.
We had the vet minimum to pay for a QB so we got someone nobody else wanted. We were up against the cap and hamstrung to improve the team. We lost many player to opt outs.
We had the top franchise in the nfl for at least the last 6 years. When that happens you cannot afford to keep your players as their contracts expire. You have to cut corners to stay in too. It finally caught up. Next year the cap crunch is gone. Belichick will rebuild the team, start the improving trend, contend and go from there.