Curious how people feel

[Ian]

I hate the Cassell argument, he never was supposed to be a starter or a heir to Brady his purpose in life was to be a backup, BB went 11-5 with a backup not a starter says a lot about his coaching ability.

I really wanted to see how Cassell did in the postseason that year and was frustrated that the format allowed teams with lesser records into the playoffs ahead of that 11-5 team. That year became sort of fun just because we never knew from week-to-week how it would go and it helped take some of the sting of losing Brady.

Now, keep in mind, this was following a season where people were tuning out in the 3rd quarter (including the networks - which went to "more competitive games" a few times) because most of those games were well out of hand before the 4th quarter. We expected them to win by a significant margin every single week. With Cassell, we never knew how it was going to go.

I wonder how far we would have gone that year because each of the teams in the postseason weren't all that dominant and I think we had a shot to go deep into the playoffs. It's just too bad it didn't happen.

 

[Betterthanmost]

The voting options are too restrictive and a tad contrived for my liking. As long as BB is the coach, i think this organization has a chance for a Super Bowl.
People don't agree with him, but this offense with a mobile QB would not have looked as inept as it did. Heck, Stidham will have made mistakes, but he would have moved the chains better than Brady with this same cast. Brady at this age is still far and away better than Stidham, but I think Stiham could have gotten more from these WR than Brady did.

 

[HeadHunter]

BB hasn't won anything without Brady, so let's stop pretending that we can be sure he'd do it this time. He had an undefeated team with Brady, and he couldn't even get that team to the playoffs the following season, without Brady.

Does that mean that he absolutely can't win without Brady? No, but it sure as hell doesn't indicate that he can.

11-5 with Matt freaking Cassel tho....was really an anomaly that they missed the playoffs that year all together. Just sayin.

 

[Deus Irae]

I hate the Cassell argument, he never was supposed to be a starter or a heir to Brady his purpose in life was to be a backup, BB went 11-5 with a backup not a starter says a lot about his coaching ability.

Cassel went to the Chiefs and, with a much lesser team around him, went 10-6, made the playoffs, and went to the Pro Bowl. Sorry, but you can't magically get that 2008 season into BB's win column.

 

[Bradyking12]

I really wanted to see how Cassell did in the postseason that year and was frustrated that the format allowed teams with lesser records into the playoffs ahead of that 11-5 team. That year became sort of fun just because we never knew from week-to-week how it would go and it helped take some of the sting of losing Brady.

Now, keep in mind, this was following a season where people were tuning out in the 3rd quarter (including the networks - which went to "more competitive games" a few times) because most of those games were well out of hand before the 4th quarter. We expected them to win by a significant margin every single week. With Cassell, we never knew how it was going to go.

I wonder how far we would have gone that year because each of the teams in the postseason weren't all that dominant and I think we had a shot to go deep into the playoffs. It's just too bad it didn't happen.

Crazy part is we lost 2 games by a few points could of easily went 12-4/13-3. Also remember we blew out the NFC champs Cardinals even tho we lost to the Steelers 33-10.

 

[Deus Irae]

11-5 with Matt freaking Cassel tho....was really an anomaly that they missed the playoffs that year all together. Just sayin.

The AFCE played a weak opponent schedule. That was the anomaly. That's how the Dolphins got 11 wins.

Dolphins: 11 wins
Patriots: 11 wins
Jets: 9 wins
Bills: 7 wins


The division was 38-26. The division faced off against the AFCW and NFCW. The NFCW went 22-42, and the AFCW went 23-41.


8 combined teams. 1 team with a better than .500 record, at 9-7.

 

[TBR]

Andy is probably a good guy but was never a good poster if we're being honest. That said @AndyJohnson was a lot better than @Ring 6. Crazy considering its the same poster.

What happened to him again?

 

[Bradyking12]

Cassel went to the Chiefs and, with a much lesser team around him, went 10-6, made the playoffs, and went to the Pro Bowl. Sorry, but you can't magically get that 2008 season into BB's win column.

When once? Any glorified backup has a chance for a turn up year or 2. Look at Fitz. Cassell is a glorified back up that pulled off a hot year or 2. That's the ceiling of a glorified back up. He's been mainly a backup his whole career.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm with you, although it's funny...I was just sitting here thinking and if it was truly a matter of a SB win vs 4-6 years of 2-14 and 4-12 ... I do feel like that would be pretty painful. I think my bigger concern is the fact we're reaching a point where Belichick is also closer to the end and we sort of don't really have a good idea of who his successor might be, nor do we have a feel for how they'll build a good foundation to have in place to keep this organization playing at a high level.

With McDaniels, Judge and Caserio as potential people departing this offseason, those are significant losses that they can weather as long as Belichick is here. If the rumors turn out to be nonsense and Belichick does stick around for a few more years, how he replaces these three - especially Caserio - is definitely going to be key to their future because I don't see him coaching past 72-ish...which is crazy to think he's only 5-years or so away from reaching that age. Once he's gone, it's going to be tough to remain at this level, whether we like it or not. So how he sets us up is going to be interesting to see how that plays out.

Right, and you extend the question many different ways. I was just interested in those results and how people would feel. For the sake of the argument you can say year 7 would be the same in both scenarios, eliminating the dynamic of which implies a better future.

my point is that I’ve seen many fans say they would rather be competitive every year even if it doesn’t mean ever winning it all than to win it all at the expense of “selling out the future”.
Real life is that neither would happen and neither are guaranteed by “going for it” or resisting that urge.
I’ll even extend it to ten years and say my preference would be winning a SB in the next 10 years, regardless of how bad the other 9 are instead of not winning a SB regardless of how good the other 9 are.

 

[Deus Irae]

When once? Any glorified backup has a chance for a turn up year or 2. Look at Fitz. Cassell is a glorified back up that pulled off a hot year or 2. That's the ceiling of a glorified back up. He's been mainly a backup his whole career.

Your argument:

I hate the Cassell argument, he never was supposed to be a starter or a heir to Brady his purpose in life was to be a backup, BB went 11-5 with a backup not a starter says a lot about his coaching ability.

The Walrus got Cassell to the playoffs, and a Pro Bowl appearance, with a much lesser team. How does that say a lot about BB's coaching, other than possibly "He's not as good as Reid"?


And, before you go there, I'm not saying that Reid is a better HC than is BB. I'm saying that the Cassell argument, specifically, doesn't hold up for you.

 

[Ian]

Your argument:



The Walrus got Cassell to the playoffs, and a Pro Bowl appearance, with a much lesser team. How does that say a lot about BB's coaching, other than possibly "He's not as good as Reid"?


And, before you go there, I'm not saying that Reid is a better HC than is BB. I'm saying that the Cassell argument, specifically, doesn't hold up for you.

You know what I wonder though, could Reid have made Cassell what he was prior to that point? I do feel like BB has been a factor in developing a few QBs over the years as well as McDaniels. And I think BB, unlike Reid, does prepare players a little better from making dumb mental errors in key moments. So I do wonder how much of a factor he played from that standpoint.

And the "walrus" comment made me laugh, well played

 

[TB_Helmet]

1 or 2 won't happen, we won't fall of the cliff if Brady leaves if we were to then we would pay him anything to keep him, BB knows what he's doing he know he can win without Brady otherwise what's going right now wouldn't be an option clearly he is confidant enough for that to be an option otherwise it wouldn't be an option.

Whoosh

 

[Bradyking12]

Your argument:



The Walrus got Cassell to the playoffs, and a Pro Bowl appearance, with a much lesser team. How does that say a lot about BB's coaching, other than possibly "He's not as good as Reid"?


And, before you go there, I'm not saying that Reid is a better HC than is BB. I'm saying that the Cassell argument, specifically, doesn't hold up for you.

If it wasn't for BB, Cassell wouldn't have been who he was, where did he start? NE, being coached and groomed by who? BB. If Cassell would be picked up by someone else instead of NE he would of been a nobody. He's a product of BB. Chiefs took a product of Belichick and benefited off of for a year before the glorified backup hit his ceiling.

 

[Jlaff]

Andy is probably a good guy but was never a good poster if we're being honest. That said @AndyJohnson was a lot better than @Ring 6. Crazy considering its the same poster.

I must have missed this, is AndyJohnson now Ring 6? I've been liking this Ring 6 guy (not to say I didn't like AndyJohnson).

Was @AndysJohnson taken? Most people wouldn't have noticed the difference.

 

[Deus Irae]

You know what I wonder though, could Reid have made Cassell what he was prior to that point? I do feel like BB has been a factor in developing a few QBs over the years as well as McDaniels. And I think BB, unlike Reid, does prepare players a little better from making dumb mental errors in key moments. So I do wonder how much of a factor he played from that standpoint.

And the "walrus" comment made me laugh, well played

I'm not trying to minimize BB in general. I'm just referring specifically to the 11 wins in 2008 being some proof of BB's ability to get it done with non-Brady QBs. I've never been an anti-Cassel guy, and I actually think that he could have been a better long term player, but his first two seasons in KC made him gun shy and ruined him as a starter.

But, if people are going to point to 2008 as a "Look what BB did with Cassell!", 2010 is there to show that it doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

 

[Deus Irae]

If it wasn't for BB, Cassell wouldn't have been who he was, where did he start? NE, being coached and groomed by who? BB. If Cassell would be picked up by someone else instead of NE he would of been a nobody. He's a product of BB. Chiefs took a product of Belichick and benefited off of for a year before the glorified backup hit his ceiling.

You keep tossing irrelevancies out there. If it wasn't for BB, Cassell..... So what? If it wasn't for Philly, BB would have completely blown it with Chung! OMG!

If it wasn't for Miami, Welker wouldn't have been who he was, so BB doesn't get any credit for plucking him out of South Beach!


That's a silly game.


BB couldn't get Cassell + and undefeated 2007 team into the playoffs in 2008. Reid took Cassel and a much lesser team to the playoffs in 2010. End of story when it comes to the Cassell argument.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

What happened to him again?

I must have missed this, is AndyJohnson now Ring 6? I've been liking this Ring 6 guy (not to say I didn't like AndyJohnson).

Was @AndysJohnson taken? Most people wouldn't have noticed the difference.

Idk if Andy "forgot" his password or what but yea it's become clear it's the same poster.

 

[IcyPatriot]

What happened to him again?

Andy traded himself for a kinder, gentler, more agreeable (kind of) Ring6.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Here is a thread I started a few years ago:

As Time Goes by...

 

[Ian]

You keep tossing irrelevancies out there. If it wasn't for BB, Cassell..... So what? If it wasn't for Philly, BB would have completely blown it with Chung! OMG!

If it wasn't for Miami, Welker wouldn't have been who he was, so BB doesn't get any credit for plucking him out of South Beach!


That's a silly game.


BB couldn't get Cassell + and undefeated 2007 team into the playoffs in 2008. Reid took Cassel and a much lesser team to the playoffs in 2010. End of story when it comes to the Cassell argument.

Hold on - they won 11 games that year and with a sort of frustrating league playoff format that kept the Patriots out and lesser win teams in. 11 games with a back up was still an impressive feat. If they went 9-7 I'd agree with your premise, but 11 games with a back-up is still pretty impressive, especially when you look around the league in recent years where lesser teams/coaches with pretty good rosters finished 8-8 (Pittsburgh would be a one example - because I hate Tomlin) or worse after losing their starting QB.