Goodell: Four preseason games not necessary

[XLIX]

Ask for a larger % of the revenue, lifetime health coverage and one other thing you really don't want and settle for the first 2?

Assuming players are interested. Glad it's up to them and not us fans. Would love more football, but I think 16 games is fine. As a side note, do they have a plan on how the extra 2 games would get settled?

6 games in conference
4 games AFC
4 games NFC
2 games - same seed in non-played AFC division

So, some rotation where you play 2 of the 3 remaining divisions in the NFC?

I have given this some thought and I think what they could do is you have to play another game against each of the in-conference divisions which are not the ones where you are playing the entire division. Have the #1 and #2 place finishers play both #1 and #2 in those divisions (and the same rules would apply for #3 and #4). For example, using this year's rotation, Patriots would play....

6 games - AFC East (division rivals)
4 games - AFC North (that's our AFC rotation this year)
4 games - NFC East (that's our NFC rotation this year)
2 games - Last year's #1 and #2 place finishers in the AFC South (right now we only play #1)
2 games - Last year's #1 and #2 place finishers in the AFC West (right now we only play #1)

 

[Ring 6]

I am saying that the overall revenue would not increase 12.5%. This is due to the fact that only the regular season TV package would be increasing in value. Things like playoff tv package and memorabilia sales would still be worth the same.

In fact just the existence of the bye week screws things up. There are 17 regular season tv weeks, but only 16 games per team. So if you increase to 19 tv weeks, you actually only get an increase in revenue of 11.8%.

And we haven't even factored in the likely average decrease in fan engagement over the 17th and 18th game.

So basically in order to make the same amount per game players would have to demand an increase share of the overall revenue.

Well then the players revenue wouldn’t increase 12.5%.
I’m not sure why we would break down the overall revenue and the part the players receive to a per game per player number.

The idea is if you you add 2 games you increase revenue and everyone splits a bigger pie.

 

[Ring 6]

I NEVER take it personally when there is an honest disagreement. That's why these boards exist. I also agree that expanding the roster size would help but not expiate the problem I agree that playing 18 games in the regular season would be excessive. Like you said the wear and tear of 2 more games would start to see a dramatic increase in injuries.

But that being said, in the proposal I reported, the number of the games for the players would remain exactly the same. The number of snaps would stay about what it is now as well as the number of collisions a player would take.

Your idea of simply adding more bye weeks wouldn't do any of those things. While the "rest" might help, adding 2 more games means adding 120-160 more collisions for someone like Thuney who plays all the time. That can't be good.

BTW- I'm definitely opposed to the 18 game season in theory. Just too many games. However if it is going to happen, then limiting the number of games a player plays in those 18 games, increasing the roster by 12% and changing the antiquated drug policies would be the best way to at least mitigate the damage.

Also it seems to be implied that teams would swap the 2 preseason games for 2 real games. Here's the problem with that. That would mean that teams would lose TWO full weeks of team preparation. Given the limited time coaches get to work with player to begin with, the quality of play at the start of the season would drop even further.

So at the end of all this overly long post here's where we stand. We both agree that this is a bad idea, but IF an 18 game season is an inevitability then YOU would propose simply adding 2 more well timed bye weeks to mitigate the excess. While I would put a limit on the number of games a player could be active for. Does that sum it up? A re there other alternatives that have been talked about? Let me know

Aren’t the patriots, playing 18 or more games every year the rebuttal to the argument that 18 games is too many?

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Limit each player to 16 of the 18 games. This will provide the increased revenue for both sides without increasing the risk and long term toll on players.

No...Might as well leave things the way they are presently.

It would also advantage teams with deep rosters, like the Patriots.

Typically the Patriots are NOT very deep.

 

[Nehalem]

Well then the players revenue wouldn’t increase 12.5%.
I’m not sure why we would break down the overall revenue and the part the players receive to a per game per player number.

The idea is if you you add 2 games you increase revenue and everyone splits a bigger pie.

And that is going to be a big problem for the players.

If your boss offered you an 8% salary bump to work 12.5% more hours would you take it?

 

[PatriotsReign]

This I have to disagree with. The NFL season is maddeningly short. I am not saying I favor 18 games because I have concerns over player health and safety, but the NFL regular season is 2-3 full months shorter than each of the other 3 sports, with a shorter postseason than NHL and NBA.

There are a lot reasons for that and all of them are obvious.

It’s not maddeningly short but the other sports’ seasons are maddeningly long! That’s one reason why football is the most popular in my opinion

 

[Ring 6]

And that is going to be a big problem for the players.

If your boss offered you an 8% salary bump to work 12.5% more hours would you take it?

If my boss told me work 12.5% more hours would increase the revenue of the company 8% and he’d give me half of it sure I would.
But that’s not really a legitimate analogy because you made up your assumptions without anything to back them up. It’s entirely possible that adding 2 games could increase revenue by more than 12.5%.

 

[Joey007]

For a number of years the league tried opening on Labor Day weekend and attendance and TV ratings were affected. I doubt they'll go back to that. Maybe they'd open up the week before and LD weekend might be a bye for everyone, I don't know.

That really surprises me. It has been nearly 20 years since they’ve done it, perhaps fan watching habits have changed? I would figure ratings for later Sunday games would only go up due to people not having work the next day.

People must do more traveling over Labor Day weekend than I had realized.

 

[XLIX]

And that is going to be a big problem for the players.

If your boss offered you an 8% salary bump to work 12.5% more hours would you take it?

IMHO, there are 2 issues that would have to be addressed:

1) How does the salary cap get adjusted? To me, this is easy. It is a bigger pie so even if the Players maintain their current revenue sharing percentage, they are (as a group) getting more money.

2) How do currently contracts get adjusted? This is a bit more complicated. Giving a simple 12.5% raise on all remaining years would not reflect money received from a signing bonus. I think they should pro-rate the signing bonus as well to reflect the extra work being asked of the players. That could, however, create cap problems. You can't just give everyone 12.5% raises if the cap only went up 8%. So it seems to create a math problem which I can't imagine would be terribly tough to solve for someone who had all the numbers and projections.

 

[patfanken]

Aren’t the patriots, playing 18 or more games every year the rebuttal to the argument that 18 games is too many?

I actually thought about that while I was doing the post. But that EXTRA wear and tear probably DOES take a toll on a team. Over the last 3 seasons the Pats have played and extra NINE games. (plus the extra 12 weeks of practices)

One of my biggest worries about this season is those extra games will start to show up with a bunch of injuries. The team has been RELATIVELY lucky with injuries the last few years, IIRC. Things like that have a tendency to even out.

But back to your point. It's a good one and I'm not sure of the best way to respond to it. On one hand, common sense tells me that adding 2 more games to season can significantly add to the wear and tear on a team's roster. It would mean a championship team could play as many as 22 games. THAT's a lot of games. On the other hand the Pats have shown that playing a 19 game season, in the short term, is something a team CAN accomplish.

As it stands right now the season is more about attrition than talent. Adding 2 more games to that equation isn't going to make it better. It's only a question of how much worse will it be. In the end it could mean that the Champions will be decided on which of the league's top 12 teams will be luckiest with injuries. Not the best way to find out who the best team in the league is.

 

[Sicilian]

Report: NFL Owners May Ease Marijuana Restrictions In Exchange for 18-Game Season

"In exchange for more wear and tear on your already taxed human bodies, we promise to not punish you quite as hard for doing something that in your home state is probably 100% legal. YOU'RE WELCOME."

As for the pre-season games, I'm in favor of dropping a couple of them regardless. As some have said, the joint practices are probably safer and better for specific evaluations. I would not, however, want to replace ALL preseason games with joint practices, as I do think there is value for new players (and all ones too) seeing how the game day operation is run. Helps to work out kinks in communication, substitutions, etc. You can do some of that in a practice, but not all of it IMO.

 

[Ring 6]

I actually thought about that while I was doing the post. But that EXTRA wear and tear probably DOES take a toll on a team. Over the last 3 seasons the Pats have played and extra NINE games. (plus the extra 12 weeks of practices)

One of my biggest worries about this season is those extra games will start to show up with a bunch of injuries. The team has been RELATIVELY lucky with injuries the last few years, IIRC. Things like that have a tendency to even out.

Kind of my point. The patriots have played more games than anyone with no noticeable increase in injuries.

But back to your point. It's a good one and I'm not sure of the best way to respond to it. On one hand, common sense tells me that adding 2 more games to season can significantly add to the wear and tear on a team's roster. It would mean a championship team could play as many as 22 games. THAT's a lot of games. On the other hand the Pats have shown that playing a 19 game season, in the short term, is something a team CAN accomplish.

As it stands right now the season is more about attrition than talent. Adding 2 more games to that equation isn't going to make it better. It's only a question of how much worse will it be. In the end it could mean that the Champions will be decided on which of the league's top 12 teams will be luckiest with injuries. Not the best way to find out who the best team in the league is.

I think the answer is that it’s not really known. Sure there would be more injuries in 18 games because it’s 2 more opportunities to get injured. But I would bet a lot of money that players today playing 18 or even 22 games with next to no hitting in camp or practice take less pounding than players in the 70s on a 14 games schedule with brutal camps and real practices.

My point was only a consideration to take into account not a rebuttal of yours.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Also it seems to be implied that teams would swap the 2 preseason games for 2 real games. Here's the problem with that. That would mean that teams would lose TWO full weeks of team preparation. Given the limited time coaches get to work with player to begin with, the quality of play at the start of the season would drop even further.

This has always been my concern. Preseason is not long enough already which is why the first month of NFL football is so different than the third month. Fortunately there are rookie practice squads so that the new talent can still have a chance to develop and teams probably have enough time to evaluate new players (although not positive that's the case). But the chance for the team to work together and know what they're doing? This isn't baseball or basketball; practicing together in football is critical.

 

[TruthSeeker]

"In exchange for more wear and tear on your already taxed human bodies, we promise to not punish you quite as hard for doing something that in your home state is probably 100% legal.

Just a comment that this is still illegal by federal law in all 50 states. It's just not being enforced. So it's not really 100% legal.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

That and keeping Thursday Night Games has to definitely take its toll. Anything can happen at any given time whether its OTAs Training Camp, Pre Season or Reg season, from contact or just getting a cleat caught and tearing up a knee or ankle on a freak play.
In grand scheme of things it would be cool to have a longer season and who wouldn't want to see Pats playing more but it has its double edge sword and with revenue increasing does that mean Salary Cap gets increased as well.

 

[Sicilian]

Just a comment that this is still illegal by federal law in all 50 states. It's just not being enforced. So it's not really 100% legal.

Very good point. Takes the punch out of my joke though

 

[patfanken]

But I would bet a lot of money that players today playing 18 or even 22 games with next to no hitting in camp or practice take less pounding than players in the 70s on a 14 games schedule with brutal camps and real practices.

My point was only a consideration to take into account not a rebuttal of yours.

Actually that's a really good point. When I was playing there would be a month of DOUBLE sessions of TC and the practices that were shorts and T-shirts were as rare as padded practices are now. It was like a vacation when just one of the 2 practices were without pads.

But that being said, I was a 210lb OLB, 265lb OLmen were the norm, 200lb RB's were considered big, and because I could run a 4.8 forty, I was thought of as fast. Today at 250lbs that time would be considered GLACIAL let alone 210. So your point is well taken, but you still have to consider the intensity of the contact that exists today. Simple physics. Greater mass and velocity means higher impacts.

I still don't like the idea of an 18 game season, but your points are well taken and I find myself more open to the idea.

 

[everlong]

The opening salvos for the next CBA. Give us 18 games and we'll give you 2 less preseason games and some control back over the fines and suspensions.

If it goes to 18 games they start the season a week early and then play the SB on the weekend of President's Day so that everybody has Super Bowl Monday off.

 

[luuked]

Your idea of simply adding more bye weeks wouldn't do any of those things. While the "rest" might help, adding 2 more games means adding 120-160 more collisions for someone like Thuney who plays all the time. That can't be good.

I never said the league should add more games.

Only stretch the season by giving out another (or 2) BYE weeks. If you stagger it right players will have more rest and the league will have 18-19 weeks of regular season to dominate the sports media and sell ads.

 

[Ring 6]

I have given this some thought and I think what they could do is you have to play another game against each of the in-conference divisions which are not the ones where you are playing the entire division. Have the #1 and #2 place finishers play both #1 and #2 in those divisions (and the same rules would apply for #3 and #4). For example, using this year's rotation, Patriots would play....

6 games - AFC East (division rivals)
4 games - AFC North (that's our AFC rotation this year)
4 games - NFC East (that's our NFC rotation this year)
2 games - Last year's #1 and #2 place finishers in the AFC South (right now we only play #1)
2 games - Last year's #1 and #2 place finishers in the AFC West (right now we only play #1)

I think they might increase inter conference games. 8 years between visits is a long time. They could make the extra 2 inter conference so you play 1 division and half of another each year.