Rewatch Thread: NE @ Jacksonville

[luuked]

I think the thread's fine. Most of the content is quality discussion. I doubt anyone is going to be annoyed by the discussion taking place for the first 5-7 pages because it's not based on All-22 film or something.

As long as discussions are at least somewhat related I also don't see the issue. Without having the discussion between @AndyJohnson and @PP2 I would have never picked up the nugget (which still needs to be verified) that the legal pick zone (1yd) only is relevant if a pass is thrown past the LOS.

 

[TommyD4207]

It was that awkward gray area where Gilmore initiated contact in the legal zone but then the WR blocked him. WR gets the benefit of the doubt there since in theory he's just trying to fight through a jam. Seems like dumb luck more than anything that he pushed Gilmore all the way back into J-Mac.

I guess. Fight through a jam for 10 yards though? Seems like I've seen flags for less. Either way, ****ing tackle the guy.

 

[luuked]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

QUOTE="luuked, post: 5376905, member: 33747"]He just stopped his progressions because he thought he would have Hogan on a sideline throw. Given how well prepared Brady is the only reason I would think he does that is because he trusted Hogan more than CP.

But yeah this would have been either a TD or at worst a very big play.[/QUOTE]
Every possession doesnt have "progressions" & this isn't one of them.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

With Flowers in the protocol we will most probably see next Sunday what it is that is holding up Rivers from being active. My assumption is that he is similarly weak against the run / holding the edge but that is just a wild guess.

So why is Davis active over him then ? From the handful snaps in preseason Rivers looked at least as good as Davis as a pass rusher.

From everything I've gathered it's a numbers game. The bodies in front of him & was thought to provide more versatility. Neither Davis or Clayborn have provided any real impact imo.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Going through the game on Gamepass right now..


Blocks are set up beautifully for Burkhead to take it deep (even Dorsett is in place for an eventual block downfield) but he trips. The other thing in this clip to look at is how inept Trent Brown sometimes looks in the run game. Even if Burkhead doesn't trip there is a chance that #83 takes him down because Brown simply misses his block and then roams around like a zombie in the Walking Dead.

There were enough plays to be made with sharper execution.

Look at all that free space:

Assuming Dorsett executes this block this play boils down to a 1v1 between Burkhead and the safety for a TD.

Bill needs to take the boys to the tires for a whole day.

We have several players who have tendencies to fall from tripping, quite regularly.

 

[luuked]

From everything I've gathered it's a numbers game. The bodies in front of him & was thought to provide more versatility. Neither Davis or Clayborn have provided any real impact imo.

I understand the numbers aspect of it but was more curious what Davis might offer that Rivers can't right now. And setting the edge / edge discipline is the only thing that somewhat seemed to make sense to me.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bill needs to take the boys to the tires for a whole day.

We have several players who have tendencies to fall from tripping, quite regularly.

He tripped over Develin's foot. It happens.. It's better than CP falling over backwards with no one around him..

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

He tripped over Develin's foot. It happens.. It's better than CP falling over backwards with no one around him..

First thing I noticed. Dev usually comes in a lot harder then that. Seemed clear Rex was tripped but have to wait n see.

 

[TomPatriot]

Yeah that was pretty bad. A run that was not on the "run defense" as much as edge setting.

Setting the Edge 101 - you cannot both set the edge and make the inside tackle. The point of setting the edge is to turn the play inside to the pursuit where one of those players makes the tackle. The Jacksonville olineman took full advantage of Davis' attempt to go back inside by driving him there so . . . edge gone . . .

 

[Nunchucks]

I saw this happen a couple times, bad angles and not forcing the runner towards the help. This is basic stuff.

 

[luuked]

I saw this happen a couple times, bad angles and not forcing the runner towards the help. This is basic stuff.

But quite honestly seeing the kind of mistakes that were being made I feel better about the loss than I did yesterday. A lot of this is stuff that can be "easily" fixed.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I understand the numbers aspect of it but was more curious what Davis might offer that Rivers can't right now. And setting the edge / edge discipline is the only thing that somewhat seemed to make sense to me.

Idk, I think this is one of those things people hear & repeat it. I haven't seen any clips of Rivers so far that would indicate he's a liability against the run.

He couldn't be any worse against the run. Davis has been blocked by a TE, 10-12 yards off the los multiple times, multiple games.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Setting the Edge 101 - you cannot both set the edge and make the inside tackle. The point of setting the edge is to turn the play inside to the pursuit where one of those players makes the tackle. The Jacksonville olineman took full advantage of Davis' attempt to go back inside by driving him there so . . . edge gone . . .

What's worse is that was a TE

 

[DaBruinz]

Setting the Edge 101 - you cannot both set the edge and make the inside tackle. The point of setting the edge is to turn the play inside to the pursuit where one of those players makes the tackle. The Jacksonville olineman took full advantage of Davis' attempt to go back inside by driving him there so . . . edge gone . . .

I pretty sure that 2 Gapping requires you to be able to set the edge AND be able to make the inside tackle by getting slipping the opposing player that's blocking you. We watched Seymour, Warren, Vrabel and Ninkovich do it plenty of times.

 

[bresna]

Setting the Edge 101 - you cannot both set the edge and make the inside tackle. The point of setting the edge is to turn the play inside to the pursuit where one of those players makes the tackle. The Jacksonville olineman took full advantage of Davis' attempt to go back inside by driving him there so . . . edge gone . . .

It is rather hard to set the edge when the o-lineman has his left hand holding your jersey on the outside of your midsection. Davis tried to shake him off in both directions but the lineman had a good hunk of his jersey and that was that. Look at the TE's hand in this screenshot. He's holding his jersey by the back numbers. That's a bear hug.

I'll give you that Davis needs to be better at avoiding being put into this position, but his inability to set the edge was not solely due to him not wanting to.

 

[Sicilian]

First thing I noticed. Dev usually comes in a lot harder then that. Seemed clear Rex was tripped but have to wait n see.

I assumed at the time that Rex was tripped by one of his own (couldn't see who while watching live), because he got up and kept running. I think he knew he was brought down by a Patriot, and was hoping he wasn't touched on the way by a Jag.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

It is rather hard to set the edge when the o-lineman has his left hand holding your jersey on the outside of your midsection. Davis tried to shake him off in both directions but the lineman had a good hunk of his jersey and that was that. Look at the TE's hand in this screenshot. He's holding his jersey by the back numbers. That's a bear hug.

I'll give you that Davis needs to be better at avoiding being put into this position, but his inability to set the edge was not solely due to him not wanting to.

Please stop. Nothing wrong w that block & it was a TE not an OL.

 

[luuked]

Idk, I think this is one of those things people hear & repeat it. I haven't seen any clips of Rivers so far that would indicate he's a liability against the run.

He couldn't be any worse against the run. Davis has been blocked by a TE, 10-12 yards off the los multiple times, multiple games.

Oh I didn't even see anyone saying anything negative about Rivers against the run. I just went through possible reasons in my head and that is the only thing that remotely made sense.

So this is not based on me watching Rivers but trying to read between the lines on why Davis is on the field. And this point I honestly dont understand it.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Oh I didn't even see anyone saying anything negative about Rivers against the run. I just went through possible reasons in my head and that is the only thing that remotely made sense.

So this is not based on me watching Rivers but trying to read between the lines on why Davis is on the field. And this point I honestly dont understand it.

Clayborn isn't & has never been effective vs the run. Davis fits the mold of what NE usually looks for at the Rush position. Big, heavy, long & some ability to play inside. Whether I agree or not I can see why they went w him.

A point I made yesterday about the position is that we have to figure out something. A rotation, pairings etc bc it's the strength of the defense & we're not getting anything up the middle. Bortles was able to step up w/out consequence yesterday.