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Wtf happened with Brissett deal?


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The last few years, the front office has not lived up to its “best in the NFL” billing when it comes to personnel decisions, including the draft, free agency, and trades. They’re probably closer to the bottom than the top.

When I heard they were trading Brissett for Dorsett, I thought at the time it didn’t seem like a big deal. I didn’t know at the time the Colts viewed Brisett as their STARTING quarterback at the time (unbeknownst the Patriots?) while Dorsett may have been a bubble roster player. Then of course I expected a grand plan with Brady and Garoppolo, but it turned into a Christmas gift to the 49ers.

Does it matter how Brissett was viewed by the Colts versus the Patriots internal grade? A year earlier, the Eagles traded Sam Bradford to the Vikings for a FIRST AND FOURTH (FOURTH COULD BECOME A THIRD OR SECOND), though Bradford was already going to be a backup for Wentz, or at best a starter for a very short time. The Patriots were in a similar situation with the Colts, as the Colts desperately sought a starting QB due to an injury/injury recovery situation with no QB market. Even if Brissett doesn’t stack up to Sam Bradford (lol), their return was a draft bust who was likely to either get cut or see 2-3 snaps a game with the Colts?

Typically, even an average backup quarterback is traded for something like a 2nd or 3rd pick. For Garoppolo and Brissett, two starters, one widely viewed as a potential perennial pro bowl QB, the grand total return was a second round pick and Philip Dorsett. WTF? These were two badly misplayed hands. The Colts turned down a second round pick for Brissett, so his trade value is now a first. Garopollo’s trade value is probably 3 firsts (theoretically, though he’s more in the “untradeable category.”). One year later, the combined value it would take to trade to get Garoppolo and Brissett back: four first round picks. One year earlier the Patriots traded them away for a second round pick and Dorsett. Sure, you couldn’t get that value last year because they were less proven, but the Patriots had an up close view of both players. For the value gap to be that huge, there’s something very wrong.

Draft picks have been among the worst in the league since 2015.

Huge, overlooked gaffe is this offseason: they WANTED Michael Bennett and even offered the Seahawks more for him, but their bid someone came in too late?? That almost never happens. Was someone just asleep at the wheel? This isn’t something where they passed due to the value...it could almost be classified as a clerical error or lack of understanding of the timeframe. Ripple effect is no Michael Bennet and the subsequent retirement of Martellus Bennett, who probably would have restructured his contract to play with his brother for another year or two.
Some thoughts on your post:

I agree their overall personnel decisions could’ve of been better.

I still can’t believe that a perennial loser like Bradford was traded for a 1st rounder.

49ers fleeced the Pats. But then again, the rest of the NFL must feel real dumb right now for sleeping on this trade. JAG still looks great.

But I’m glad Michael Bennett is not a Patriot. He’s nuts! Having both brothers on the team would’ve made it a circus.
 
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Nothing good. But enough to be worth something. He played on the same level as Flacco, Manning, Mariota, and Cutler last year. Each of those players, while not being the guy you want to start, have value.
No he didn’t.
But any q.b who plays like Flacco manning or cutler did last year is a q.b who is over the hill and needs to be replaced.
Mariota led his team to the playoffs.

If he did nothing good how are you argue that’s enough to be worth something?
The guys you cite (aside from cutler) only are employed, the ones that are, because their teams are stuck with their contracts.
 
Do you honestly think that the court system of the US is so flawed that they'd incorrectly hold the Patriots at fault?
Yes. Our court system is terribly flawed.
 
Did you go back and look at the scores of those games?

Hoyer and Brissett are replacement guys. Their job is not to carry the team. Their job is to be adequate, give the team a fighting chance and let other areas of the team carry the team.

you can't put wins and losses on the quarterback unless the quarterback is one of your best players. That was definitely not the case with Hoyer on the 49ers, and probably not the case with Brissett on the Colts either.
Yes, it's actually quite impressive what Hoyer did, but if Brissett and Hoyer are even on similar levels, then Brissett would have more value, being that he was 23, on a rookie deal, showed some potential with us in the Texans game, etc.
 
No he didn’t.
But any q.b who plays like Flacco manning or cutler did last year is a q.b who is over the hill and needs to be replaced.
Mariota led his team to the playoffs.

If he did nothing good how are you argue that’s enough to be worth something?
The guys you cite (aside from cutler) only are employed, the ones that are, because their teams are stuck with their contracts.
Brissett doesn't have to be good. He has to have value. Mariota played like trash last season, but on the trade block he'd be worth a 1st rder. All of the aforementioned QBs suck, but have value. Value is all that I care about - value that we missed out on.
 
Yes, it's actually quite impressive what Hoyer did, but if Brissett and Hoyer are even on similar levels, then Brissett would have more value, being that he was 23, on a rookie deal, showed some potential with us in the Texans game, etc.
You're correct. What I was objecting to is a blanket statement that a guy who's 5 games below .500 is qualitatively "better" than a guy who's 10 games below .500.

Hoyer's career rating is 83.3. Brissett's is 81.9. There's not a huge difference there, so the tie goes in favor of the younger QB, but it's by no means a given.
 
Yes. Our court system is terribly flawed.
Brady probably didn't directly do it, but did the Patriots probably have something to do with the balls? I mean, likely yes. You can't just make up BS in the legal system
 
Brissett doesn't have to be good. He has to have value. Mariota played like trash last season, but on the trade block he'd be worth a 1st rder. All of the aforementioned QBs suck, but have value. Value is all that I care about - value that we missed out on.
We didn't miss that value because when we had him, he didn't have that value.

What you're missing repeatedly is the fact that Brissett gained very significant value as a Colt due to starting for a full season and giving the league a look at what he could do.

That is value he would not (necessarily) have gained as a Patriot, because he would not have played unless Brady suffered a serious injury.

It's like a guy who sells an old beat up sports car for a fair market value given its current condition, and someone else lovingly restores it and sells it for a much higher price and the first guy feels gypped. It's simply not fair, because the second owner who restored it deserves the return in value for his work in building the machine's value.

If Brissett is traded for more than we traded him for, it's because he gained value as a Colt. That's not value that we *ever* had a right to.
 
You're correct. What I was objecting to is a blanket statement that a guy who's 5 games below .500 is qualitatively "better" than a guy who's 10 games below .500.

Hoyer's career rating is 83.3. Brissett's is 81.9. There's not a huge difference there, so the tie goes in favor of the younger QB, but it's by no means a given.
BOTH SUCK BUT WE NEED MORE :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Brissett doesn't have to be good. He has to have value. Mariota played like trash last season, but on the trade block he'd be worth a 1st rder. All of the aforementioned QBs suck, but have value. Value is all that I care about - value that we missed out on.
Cutler, manning and Flacco have no value.

The discussion wasn’t about other bad QBs having value the discussion was about Brissett being awful last year.

QBs who play awful don’t have value.
Somehow you seem to not understand this.
 
We didn't miss that value because when we had him, he didn't have that value.

What you're missing repeatedly is the fact that Brissett gained very significant value as a Colt due to starting for a full season and giving the league a look at what he could do.

That is value he would not (necessarily) have gained as a Patriot, because he would not have played unless Brady suffered a serious injury.
Brissett MAY HAVE gained value because he gained experience.
He certainly didn’t gain value by how he played on the field.
 
We didn't miss that value because when we had him, he didn't have that value.

What you're missing repeatedly is the fact that Brissett gained very significant value as a Colt due to starting for a full season and giving the league a look at what he could do.

That is value he would not (necessarily) have gained as a Patriot, because he would not have played unless Brady suffered a serious injury.
Of course. But a guy won 1 game (poor Browns), would've had more opportunities throughout preseason, etc. That's how Jimmy built his value.
 
Cutler, manning and Flacco have no value.

The discussion wasn’t about other bad QBs having value the discussion was about Brissett being awful last year.

QBs who play awful don’t have value.
Somehow you seem to not understand this.
They would have value of at least a 3rd round pick. QBs are way overvalued in this league.
 
They would have value of at least a 3rd round pick. QBs are way overvalued in this league.
No. As someone said please find a QB traded for a 3rd or better they wasn’t expect to be the future. Those guys are washed up has beens.
 
Somehow you seem to not understand this.[/QUOTE]

Brissett MAY HAVE gained value because he gained experience.
He certainly didn’t gain value by how he played on the field.

I think he did, AJ. If only because he STAYED on teh field.

Remember the game where Brissett got sacked 10 freaking times in the same game? This is a team that Andrew Luck in his prime could only coax 8-8 out of. That's not because Luck is a terrible quarterback, it's because the team was BAD, it had huge holes at linebacker and running back, and no depth at receiver, and had traffic cones for an offensive line. They couldn't pressure, they couldn't cover, they couldn't move the football on the ground, they couldn't even keep their QB on his feet.

And so naturally, in your twisted world view, 3-13 was clearly the quarterback's fault?

I mean how far behind the 8 ball does a quarterback have to be before he gets a break in your book? NOT all teams are created equal, and neither are all 3-13 seasons.
 
We didn't miss that value because when we had him, he didn't have that value.

What you're missing repeatedly is the fact that Brissett gained very significant value as a Colt due to starting for a full season and giving the league a look at what he could do.

That is value he would not (necessarily) have gained as a Patriot, because he would not have played unless Brady suffered a serious injury.

It's like a guy who sells an old beat up sports car for a fair market value given its current condition, and someone else lovingly restores it and sells it for a much higher price and the first guy feels gypped. It's simply not fair, because the second owner who restored it deserves the return in value for his work in building the machine's value.

If Brissett is traded for more than we traded him for, it's because he gained value as a Colt. That's not value that we *ever* had a right to.

What did Brissett do last year to justify being worth a 2nd rounder. He didn’t elevate a bad roster. They finished with the #3 overall pick in the draft. Not all his fault but imo he showed who he is, a decent backup. 3000 yards, 13 tds, 58%comp..all below average for a decent starting qb.
 
What did Brissett do last year to justify being worth a 2nd rounder. He didn’t elevate a bad roster. They finished with the #3 overall pick in the draft. Not all his fault but imo he showed who he is, a decent backup. 3000 yards, 13 tds, 58%comp..all below average for a decent starting qb.
A decent backup goes for quite a bit nowadays
 
What did Brissett do last year to justify being worth a 2nd rounder. He didn’t elevate a bad roster. They finished with the #3 overall pick in the draft. Not all his fault but imo he showed who he is, a decent backup. 3000 yards, 13 tds, 58%comp..all below average for a decent starting qb.
I think no fanbase is in a worse position to evaluate what Brissett is than the Patriots.

Compare his performance to the luckiest quarterback in the NFL today, Blake Bortles. Then report back on how terrible Brissett is.

"he didn't elevate a bad roster," he sure did, it just didn't turn into wins because unfortunately, not only was he cursed with perhaps the worst roster in the NFL, he had Chuck Pagano as a head coach and his teams choked away 4th quarter leads on at least 6 different occasions.

What that means is that Brissett gave the team a chance to win more often than not. The incompetence of Pagano and the terrible roster he was working with just couldn't turn that into wins. I can't count the number of times Pagano got a late lead and completely changed his game plan and started playing not to lose, with the predictable result. That's simply not the QB's problem.

On that Colts roster, I honestly think Brissett (an average quarterback) was one of their best players that year. That's how bad that team was.
 
Somehow you seem to not understand this.



I think he did, AJ. If only because he STAYED on teh field.[/quote]
You think he gained value because he played poorly but didn’t get injured?

Remember the game where Brissett got sacked 10 freaking times in the same game? This is a team that Andrew Luck in his prime could only coax 8-8 out of.

Luck had 3 11 win seasons.

That's not because Luck is a terrible quarterback, it's because the team was BAD, it had huge holes at linebacker and running back, and no depth at receiver, and had traffic cones for an offensive line. They couldn't pressure, they couldn't cover, they couldn't move the football on the ground, they couldn't even keep their QB on his feet.
So any poor QB on a bad team is therefore. good? If they just kept Scott Tolkien in there to lead a bottom 3 offense, we’d be saying tolzien is good?
Brissett player poorly. It is what it is.
And so naturally, in your twisted world view, 3-13 was clearly the quarterback's fault?
Where did I say or imply that?
Brissetts contribution to his 4-11 record is Brissetts fault and broader played like a 4-11 QB.

I mean how far behind the 8 ball does a quarterback have to be before he gets a break in your book? NOT all teams are created equal, and neither are all 3-13 seasons.
So bad QB play in a bad team means what? He gets a break? A break about what? He played poorly. You want me to lie and say he didn’t?
 
A decent backup goes for quite a bit nowadays

If he’s coming in to be your starter. You have any instances of teams giving up 2nd rounders for qbs coming in to still be a backup?
 
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