Rapoport: Patriots quietly bring in Lamar Jackson for Pre Draft Visit

[manxman2601]

You don’t have to look further than 54,56,59 completion percentage from a guy who can run so never has to throw away or force a throw and the fact he did it against a lower level of competition. But yeah the tale backs it up

I do think Josh can manage that. Brissett’s win against Houston cones to mind. The question is whether he can improve his accuracy over the next couple of years.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You don’t have to look further than 54,56,59 completion percentage from a guy who can run so never has to throw away or force a throw and the fact he did it against a lower level of competition. But yeah the tale backs it up

I’m not for or against drafting Lamar Jackson, but I think his accuracy can improve under Bill and Josh. He’s a project QB for sure - but the best of the project QBs of this draft.

 

[IllegalContact]

The thing about drafting a QB like Jackson is it gives Brady enough time to finish his career. If the pats land Mayfield or Rosen, I can see Bill trying to push Tom out the door sooner rather than later. Jackson gives Brady another 3 years while he develops, which might be good timing for Brady’s retirement plans (and Gisele’s).

lol.........mayfield is a product of the college spread offense......at least jackson has spent a bunch of time under center

 

[primetime]

You’re not wrong judging by his Miss St tape.

The first two picks were on him, but the second two were on his abysmal receivers. He throws precise passes on those and the receiver either just misses the ball (third pick) or cuts off his route (fourth pick). There's a pass late in the third where Jackson puts it into a tight window in the end zone and it just goes through a receiver's hands. If you watch that pass and don't think he has the ability to be an NFL quarterback, I don't know what you're looking at. His receivers were awful, the completion percentage can't tell that story without context.

His short-area accuracy improved over his college career, which is a good sign for development, and his interception rate declined as well. He just had nobody around him and had to do it all, and he was phenomenal in the red zone and on third and fourth down. That suggests good makeup.

 

[PatsFan2]

I’m not for or against drafting Lamar Jackson, but I think his accuracy can improve under Bill and Josh. He’s a project QB for sure - but the best of the project QBs of this draft.

And I don't think BB would Draft a Project in the First Round. You Draft Projects and Day 2 and 3.

 

[manxman2601]

The first two picks were on him, but the second two were on his abysmal receivers. He throws precise passes on those and the receiver either just misses the ball (third pick) or cuts off his route (fourth pick). There's a pass late in the third where Jackson puts it into a tight window in the end zone and it just goes through a receiver's hands. His receivers were awful.

They were but he didn’t help them out. He rarely throws to a receivers numbers - there’a Lot of high passes or ones a little too far out in front.

 

[manxman2601]

And I don't think BB would Draft a Project in the First Round. You Draft Projects and Day 2 and 3.

There’s different rules for QBs. You take a future starter where you can get them.

 

[Tony2046]

Plenty of flaws. He holds the ball too long and his accuracy (i.e. ability to throw a catchable ball) is inconsistent, though it rarely leads to turnovers because he tends to make good decisions about who to throw to (which I refer to as placement). His mechanics are merely okay but he does a lot of throwing with his wrist. He needs some quarterback coaching before he's ready to start in the NFL, but that's true of all of the top-5 except for Rosen and Mayfield. And Jackson can at least give you something while he's redshirting, since you could run 5 or so designed plays per game with him as a change of pace.



Wonderlics just don't matter. Donovan McNabb scored a 14. Steve McNair, Jim Kelly, and Randall Cunningham scored a 15; Dan Marino managed a 16. Belichick QBs Rohan Davey and Vinny Testaverde scored 17s, which should put to rest the idea that the Patriots care at all.

Meanwhile, Blaine Gabbert scored a 42. There's just no correlation between football intelligence and a score on a general IQ test.

The Brady 6: Wonderlick scores

Chad Pennington - 25
Giovanni Carmazzi - 32
Chris Redman - 16
Tee Martin - 11
Marc Bulger - 29
Spergon Wynn - 25
Tom Brady - 33

Drew Henson - 42
Drew Bledsoe - 36
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 48 (Highest QB score)

Lowest Super Bowl winning score: Terry Bradshaw - 15 or 16 (on the list twice)
Highest Super Bowl winning score: Eli Manning - 39 (Wentz had a 40 but didn't play)

(Looked through the list and posted based on memory so....)

Anyway not much of a correlation as you pointed out.


Huge List Of NFL Wonderlic Scores By Position | WTS

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And I don't think BB would Draft a Project in the First Round. You Draft Projects and Day 2 and 3.

He’s a project with a very large ceiling

 

[Ring 6]

I’m not for or against drafting Lamar Jackson, but I think his accuracy can improve under Bill and Josh. He’s a project QB for sure - but the best of the project QBs of this draft.

You don’t draft a guy with a fatal flaw and hope it improves. You can’t be an nfl an with poor accuracy and I don’t understand where that is coachabke.
I don’t agree that a guy who has additional
Skills but lacks the primary skills of a position is a great prospect.

 

[primetime]

The Brady 6: Wonderlick scores

Chad Pennington - 25
Giovanni Carmazzi - 32
Chris Redman - 16
Tee Martin - 11
Marc Bulger - 29
Spergon Wynn - 25
Tom Brady - 33

Drew Henson - 42
Drew Bledsoe - 36
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 48 (Highest QB score)

Lowest Super Bowl winning score: Terry Bradshaw - 15 or 16 (on the list twice)
Highest Super Bowl winning score: Eli Manning - 39 (Wentz had a 40 but didn't play)

(Looked through the list and posted based on memory so....)

Anyway not much of a correlation as you pointed out.


Huge List Of NFL Wonderlic Scores By Position | WTS

Studies suggest that there's actually a negative correlation, that high Wonderlic scores are associated with a worse NFL career. Obviously there's a confound there, a lot of high Wonderlic scores are from special teamers and marginal prospects from Ivies or what have you, but the Wonderlic is a big nothingburger and I doubt NFL teams pay any attention to it.

 

[Ring 6]

He’s a project with a very large ceiling

Why do you keep saying that? Everyone has a high ceiling If they eliminate their weaknesses.
Jackson has bust written all over him.

 

[Ring 6]

There’s different rules for QBs. You take a future starter where you can get them.

I think you can get guys who are better qbs in round 3 than Jackson.

 

[primetime]

They were but he didn’t help them out. He rarely throws to a receivers numbers - there’a Lot of high passes or ones a little too far out in front.

But then he'll turn around and throw a beautiful ball that would make Tom Brady proud. That suggests to me the accuracy issues are in his mechanics, which can be coached up, rather than something inherent about the way he plays football.

Here's a long and detailed take on his mechanics and how they affect his accuracy: Solak | Lamar Jackson's mechanics are not the problem they seem

 

[borisman]

An elite scrambler that can create time to get to his third or fourth read can make for some exciting football. I'm not a draftnik so I don't know the upside or downside of any player but having a Lamar Jackson type QB may be the way to go for a post Brady team.

That was a great game vs. an elite Clemson defense. Deshaun Watson also put on a show in that game. I know because Clemson was a home dog and I took them. What a thrilling 4th quarter that turned out to be. Jackson will be an intriguing boom/bust prospect if there ever was one.

 

[manxman2601]

I think you can get guys who are better qbs in round 3 than Jackson.

You can draft safer picks certainly.

 

[Ring 6]

But then he'll turn around and throw a beautiful ball that would make Tom Brady proud. That suggests to me the accuracy issues are in his mechanics, which can be coached up, rather than something inherent about the way he plays football.

Here's a long and detailed take on his mechanics and how they affect his accuracy: Solak | Lamar Jackson's mechanics are not the problem they seem

But this is the thing. A qb who makes some good throws but a lot of bad ones will never make it in the nfl. There are scores of busted qbs who were capable of making awesome throws, that’s just the ante to be considered. It is particularly troublesome when you see accuracy issues in college where there are much bigger windows than the nfl.

 

[manxman2601]

But then he'll turn around and throw a beautiful ball that would make Tom Brady proud. That suggests to me the accuracy issues are in his mechanics, which can be coached up, rather than something inherent about the way he plays football.

Here's a long and detailed take on his mechanics and how they affect his accuracy: Solak | Lamar Jackson's mechanics are not the problem they seem

I certainly think he can improve his accuracy with coaching but I still think it’s a risky pick. He’ll have to improve a lot.

 

[Tony2046]

I can give you a comparison to a Native Hawaiian. His skillset is probably closest to Mariota. Mariota's had an interesting developmental cycle. In 2016 he looked well on his way to being a top-10 QB, and then he took a big step back last season. I suspect a lot of that was scheme, which means we'll see where he goes with Vrabel this year. Even still, he managed to lead his team to the playoffs and he was very good in the 4th quarter and difficult for opposing coaches to plan against.

I really don't like the Newton comparison because Newton is just a unique player, he's a massive pocket passer with the ability to run and truck guys because he runs a 4.6 with quick feet and is built like a dinosaur. If Jackson has the career of Cam Newton, who won an NFL MVP with absolutely nobody else on his offense, the pick would be a home run.

He reminds me of Randall Cunningham from the little film I've watched.

 

[XLIX]

I just don’t think of him as a good enough passer to succeed. A QB who primarily runs works great in the NCAA, not so much in the NFL.

*However*.... if he’s willing to play a different position, then things get very interesting....