Don't Ever Tell Me Belichick is More Valuable Than Brady Ever Again

[RhodyPatriot]

hi, I'm not said BB is bad. he's great. I'm just saying Brady is by far better.

Better how???

 

[zoostation]

Emotion can be an emotional emotion

 

[IcyPatriot]

Would be better if some admitted they really do not understand team building and coaching. Too many here flogging themselves, gnashing teeth and in some cases eating their own flesh after this loss. Wake up ... and get back to reality. Blaming Belichick for wounding one's self esteem is inane. Anyone who needed this victory to enhance their id needs serious help.

 

[Kontradiction]

WHOO JS BETTER BB OR BRADYY

 

[Ivan]

As you know, I’m far from an over the top homer. I’m not afraid to call out some players or decisions or point out what I perceive as weaknesses from time to time, but some of these threads and takes on Belichick are beyond ridiculous. They’re embarrassing.

If I didn’t know any better I’d think people were trying to run him out of town. Honest to God. I’m baffled.

I can come to only one conclusion, they are the most spoiled, ignorant, and ungrateful fans on earth. They don’t deserve another win, let alone another championship. They are the worst fans in all of sports, period.

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

To say this game was on Belichick is an understatement. The burning of a timeout in the fourth quarter just for a 3rd and 6 when the Eagles weren't even on midfield was questionable. That's nonsense we would laugh at other coaches for doing if it they were to wish they had it back. Even if they get the first down, it's not the end of the world. Those timeouts are valuable.

The gameplan was atrocious. The bend but don't break nonsense is getting old. It only works by relying on your opponents to commit mistakes such as penalties, errant throws, and turnovers. Aside from Zach Ertz's false start in the opening drive, Philly didn't make a major mistake afterwards. The Pats took nothing away defensively. Bill didn't get his guys ready and prepared to make tackles to force 3rd down stops. He hasn't had a great defensive gameplan in almost 15 years. By the way, that was when he had Ty Law, Teddy, Vrabel, Harrison, McGuiness, and more that he inherited from Parcells.

Hoodie is the best of all time. Don't get me wrong. However, part of that is attributed to how he consistently relies on his opposing coaches being dumber than him. He teaches his players to not lunge for the endzone to avoid what happened with Jessie James in the Steelers game (Tomlin isn't a good enough coach to emphasize such as a thing). So many coaches mismanage timeouts (Andy Reid), get a delay of game after timeouts (Marone in the Bortles play), leave Gronk covered one on one with someone that can't do it (Tomlin), and hurriedly calls for a slant passes in the congested endzone with the game on the line (Pete Carol). The issue becomes what happens when he faces a coach that isn't going to make those type of mistakes with a talented roster? (Coughlin, the Hardbaughs, and now Pederson).

I know Butler had an illness but if he was okay enough to play special teams, he surely could have gotten some snaps on defense. Furthermore, it surely doesn't explain why Rowe was placed on Jeffrey instead of Gilmore in the first quarter. The inexplicable decision cost the pats points early in the game. Once Gilmore went on Jeffrey, he shut the receiver down. Why wasn't he on Jeffrey from the start? Also, did Bill not watch the Vikings' game to see that stopping the slants on these RPOs would lead to deep balls? It killed the Vikings. It didn't kill the Falcons only giving up slants as the Eagles only scored 15 points. No real gameplan was installed. Don't only scapegoat Patricia. Bill is a defensive minded coach so he's there with him making these decisions and he hired him anyway. Good luck Stafford and the Lions.

Once again, Brady played well enough to win. Bill has been relying on opponents screwing up and Brady bailing him out time after time after time (Seahawks and Falcons game). He and the front office have gotten complacent again with this roster. It is devoid of talent in the front seven compared to the teams they've face. The quality drop in the league as it pertains to smart play and the success they pulled out have made them believe everyone else is stupid. However, tonight the Eagles proved otherwise.

You could argue Bill the general manager and the head coach has cost Brady more rings. I am not saying Brady has always been perfect. No one is. But he has played well, especially today, to win. I'm waiting for Bill to have great gameplans. He's been installing simple plans like having a tight end chip on a pass rusher like JJ Watt or double teaming a receiver like Hopkins. Some thing most teams are too stupid to replicate but instead whine about the Patriots winning.

People talk about the system. Brady has had different offensive coordinators that he makes look good because of his ability to read defenses, make accurate throws, sense pass rush, look off linebackers and safeties, not throw to receivers he doesn't trust, lead receivers, and exploit mismatches on the field. I used to get frustrated watching Patriot teams such as the 2011 Patriots put out guys like Russ Ventrone at the secondary but relying on Brady bailing them out. These two Superbowls were won because Brady has gotten even better the last 4 years and due to teams choking. In this game, our opponents surprisingly didn't choke and that's why we lost. I know other guys stepped up and did their job like Bill preaches but they're still getting outplayed and out schemed for stretches.

History repeated itself. This game felt awfully similar to the late fourth quarter of the 2011 Giants Superbowl game. Belichick is a great coach with his attention to detail, mastery of the rule book, his ability to find hard working guys and put them in position to succeed, his teams being discipline, and his in game management. However, we've seen that only works if his roster is very talented and can make plays and or Brady being Brady. Once a coach actually has a clue and faces Bill, the Hoodie isn't always besting them with his simple gameplans. Hopefully, the Pats will learn from this and load up like how they did in 2014 following those previous seasons of the same playoff failures from the same aforementioned reasons.

Preach it to the choir and the segregation!

I've been saying this for years, while Patriot fans from the "glory" years try to justify Belichick's suckage and act as if younger or more recent Pats fans are ungrateful, because the Patriots absolutely sucked in the day. I've already said Belichick's ability to coach a good D died back in 2005, even then the D sucked to injuries, but they had a good run in 07 and 08.

Anybody denying Belichick's and the D's suckage since 2009 are clearly drinking too much kool-aid from the press. I'm sick of "experts" referring to 2008 as proof the Belichick is great without Brady, when they knew dang well our roster was stacked that year and playing one of, if not, the easiest schedules that year. We have seen what sorry QBs can do with a wack schedule and a packed offense, check out Kaepertrash's glory year and Santrash's glory year with the Rats. They have sucked since. Heck, look at the mediocrity in Philadelphia. Nobody wants to talk facts anymore, they want to talk behind the press, who are always empty of facts but full of yellow crap... sensationalism.

It took 5 rings for people to start giving Brady some credit, though he still doesn't get enough credit for why scrubs, like any coach in NE, have found jobs and failed in other places. Credit for why all of his backups have had starting jobs elsewhere, and fail (not Jimmy G though), or for this mythical and mysterious "system" that seemingly only Brady, and no other QB in the league, plays in. Rodgers thrives in McCarthy's system, Brees thrives in Payton's system, offensive-minded coaches. Yet, somehow Belichick with his suspect defenses, his specialty, gets all the credit for Brady's success. That's what is always peeing me off about the great Brady debate.

Brady has conquered every offensive system, which changes like the vanilla scrubs they pay and cut from the roster every 2 years. He's played for various offensive coordinators, who have proven their suckage without him in the *32. Without Brady playing with mediocrity for offense (except Gronk), good special-teams, and suckage for D for the last 10+ years, we are a 6-10 team at best, if teams in the division would actually draft a QB that is worth a dang, we'd probably be worse, even with Brady. Brady has done the most with less, and shown he can sling the ball when he's got the talent around him. That's why I live, love and breathe Brady, and that's why Jimmy G is in San Francisco, though he could be back, if Belichick is the "genius" he's perceived to be and G's not franchised.

If Belichick retired today, I would not flinch... unless McDaniels were to be his replacement.

 

[Kontradiction]

As you know, I’m far from an over the top homer. I’m not afraid to call out some players or decisions or point out what I perceive as weaknesses from time to time, but some of these threads and takes on Belichick are beyond ridiculous. They’re embarrassing.

If I didn’t know any better I’d think people were trying to run him out of town. Honest to God. I’m baffled.

The reactions are understandable. Most people aren’t very bright. These less intelligent people tend to react with emotion rather than with logic. Hell, normally intelligent people do it as well. I’m certainly not exempt and I’m probably the smartest guy who knows everything on this entire board. That said, when you begin to understand that and add in the fact that this game was lost due primarily to Belichick’s coaching and stubbornness, you can see why these threads are popping up. I’m certainly not a happy camper with him right now, but people need to step the hell back and realize the man is also at least partially responsible for 5 Lombardis as well. He made a mistake. He essentially admitted this game was on him post-game. That doesn’t mean he should be fired like the great, unwashed masses are saying.

 

[luuked]

With Hightower and Gilmore getting premium contracts last offseason, BB the GM had to economize elsewhere.

What premium contract are you talking about with Hightower ? He got effectively a 2 year extension for an average of 7M. The final 2 years of his contract where he gets expensive are the ones that have no guarantees.

Brady will again be counted on to outscore the rest of the NFL

At least since 2014 Brady has had defenses that for the most part were able to hold their own which is visible by the points scored against. The SB is one game. You still have to play at least another 17 games to get there and in more games than not the defense played good enough to push a struggling and inconsistent offense over the finish line. Just think back to the AFCCG where we had to rely on the very same defense to make multiple stops in the fourth quarter to get it done.

And dont give me any **** about Gronk being out because the defense has taken a ****ton of hits in the front 7.

Did they play well against the Eagles ? No. It was a horrible matchup for the front 7 we, Philly took advantage of it and the few plays that could have been made were screwed up individually. Brady almost carried us over that and came up one sack short. But now saying this is what happened in every game is simply recency bias.

 

[luuked]

I can come to only one conclusion, they are the most spoiled, ignorant, and ungrateful fans on earth. They don’t deserve another win, let alone another championship. They are the worst fans in all of sports, period.

I said it in another thread but on some weird level the way this entitled assholes are behaving as if BB stole something that they think was rightfully theirs is very entertaining. The idea that BB owes them and the city some explanation is ******ed to the highest degree. However, just seeing them squirm left and right and lash out because they can't stand the embarrassing fact that we dared to lose in a SB is softening the blow for me.

Like you say those spoiled people don't deserve what they have gotten over the last 15+ years and it is a joy to see them throw a tantrum. I can't wait for the first genius who thinks they should sue BB over that. I am sure someone on talk radio already suggested that.

 

[Kontradiction]

I said it in another thread but on some weird level the way this entitled assholes are behaving as if BB stole something that they think was rightfully theirs is very entertaining. The idea that BB owes them and the city some explanation is ******ed to the highest degree. However, just seeing them squirm left and right and lash out because they can't stand the embarrassing fact that we dared to lose in a SB is softening the blow for me.

Like you say those spoiled people don't deserve what they have gotten over the last 15+ years and it is a joy to see them throw a tantrum. I can't wait for the first genius who thinks they should sue BB over that. I am sure someone on talk radio already suggested that.

The homers have been nearly as bad.

 

[Ivan]

The reactions are understandable. Most people aren’t very bright. These less intelligent people tend to react with emotion rather than with logic. Hell, normally intelligent people do it as well. I’m certainly not exempt and other than Ivan I’m probably the smartest guy who knows everything on this entire board. That said, when you begin to understand that and add in the fact that this game was lost due primarily to Belichick’s coaching and stubbornness, you can see why these threads are popping up. I’m certainly not a happy camper with him right now, but people need to step the hell back and realize the man is also at least partially responsible for 5 Lombardis as well. He made a mistake. He essentially admitted this game was on him post-game. That doesn’t mean he should be fired like the great, unwashed masses are saying.

appreciate the compliment.......

 

[archstanton543]

Anybody denying Belichick's and the D's suckage since 2009 are clearly drinking too much kool-aid from the press.

Hmm, let's think about that for a second. The league took away two first rounders which, like it or not impacted the team for many years...even to this day. And, while not every first rounder has been a hit, the Pats usually do a pretty great job drafting in the first round. So, that's potentially two long-term impact players (presumably on defense) that could have been helping this team for a long time that simply aren't there.

 

[luuked]

The homers have been nearly as bad.

Maybe. But they are at least not actively rooting for failure just to be able to gloat. That being said the homers are making it hard to have a somewhat nuanced discussion on what happened as well. At least so far the rewatch thread has not been hit by either of those waves.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Brady and the Patriots offense put up 300 yards in the 1st half and scored 12 points.
12 points!!!
I could make the case that this is where the Super Bowl was lost.
Because the Patriots offense is so slow to start they fall behind in these games and usually by at least 2 possessions.
That forces them to put the pedal to the metal with the offense and puts their defense right back on the field.
Did the Patriots have ONE offensive possession over 5 minutes??
These things matter and directly impact the final outcome.
Yup, 600 yards to total offense is unbelievable ........scored 3 pts in the 1st, 9 in the 2nd and 7 in the 4th.

 

[Nikolai]

Belichick is the GOAT coach. He ****ed up the game plan and quite possibly the personnel management in SB52. But he also didn't call a timeout in SB49, coaches all the smallest details that have won us a lot of close games, and took advantage of what he's had in Brady.

All these so-called fans that want to get rid of Belichick want to replace him with....who? Rex Ryan? Frank Reich? Jeff Fisher? Get the **** outta here...

We're turning into the Steelers fanbase and that's goddamned embarrassing.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

It's a dumb question. In case you haven't heard, it's a team sport. Like Giselle said, "Tom can't catch the !@#%^&*( balls too." Nor can he coach a team (yet).

 

[dannydyn]

To say this game was on Belichick is an understatement. The burning of a timeout in the fourth quarter just for a 3rd and 6 when the Eagles weren't even on midfield was questionable. That's nonsense we would laugh at other coaches for doing if it they were to wish they had it back. Even if they get the first down, it's not the end of the world. Those timeouts are valuable.

The gameplan was atrocious. The bend but don't break nonsense is getting old. It only works by relying on your opponents to commit mistakes such as penalties, errant throws, and turnovers. Aside from Zach Ertz's false start in the opening drive, Philly didn't make a major mistake afterwards. The Pats took nothing away defensively. Bill didn't get his guys ready and prepared to make tackles to force 3rd down stops. He hasn't had a great defensive gameplan in almost 15 years. By the way, that was when he had Ty Law, Teddy, Vrabel, Harrison, McGuiness, and more that he inherited from Parcells.

Hoodie is the best of all time. Don't get me wrong. However, part of that is attributed to how he consistently relies on his opposing coaches being dumber than him. He teaches his players to not lunge for the endzone to avoid what happened with Jessie James in the Steelers game (Tomlin isn't a good enough coach to emphasize such as a thing). So many coaches mismanage timeouts (Andy Reid), get a delay of game after timeouts (Marone in the Bortles play), leave Gronk covered one on one with someone that can't do it (Tomlin), and hurriedly calls for a slant passes in the congested endzone with the game on the line (Pete Carol). The issue becomes what happens when he faces a coach that isn't going to make those type of mistakes with a talented roster? (Coughlin, the Hardbaughs, and now Pederson).

I know Butler had an illness but if he was okay enough to play special teams, he surely could have gotten some snaps on defense. Furthermore, it surely doesn't explain why Rowe was placed on Jeffrey instead of Gilmore in the first quarter. The inexplicable decision cost the pats points early in the game. Once Gilmore went on Jeffrey, he shut the receiver down. Why wasn't he on Jeffrey from the start? Also, did Bill not watch the Vikings' game to see that stopping the slants on these RPOs would lead to deep balls? It killed the Vikings. It didn't kill the Falcons only giving up slants as the Eagles only scored 15 points. No real gameplan was installed. Don't only scapegoat Patricia. Bill is a defensive minded coach so he's there with him making these decisions and he hired him anyway. Good luck Stafford and the Lions.

Once again, Brady played well enough to win. Bill has been relying on opponents screwing up and Brady bailing him out time after time after time (Seahawks and Falcons game). He and the front office have gotten complacent again with this roster. It is devoid of talent in the front seven compared to the teams they've face. The quality drop in the league as it pertains to smart play and the success they pulled out have made them believe everyone else is stupid. However, tonight the Eagles proved otherwise.

You could argue Bill the general manager and the head coach has cost Brady more rings. I am not saying Brady has always been perfect. No one is. But he has played well, especially today, to win. I'm waiting for Bill to have great gameplans. He's been installing simple plans like having a tight end chip on a pass rusher like JJ Watt or double teaming a receiver like Hopkins. Some thing most teams are too stupid to replicate but instead whine about the Patriots winning.

People talk about the system. Brady has had different offensive coordinators that he makes look good because of his ability to read defenses, make accurate throws, sense pass rush, look off linebackers and safeties, not throw to receivers he doesn't trust, lead receivers, and exploit mismatches on the field. I used to get frustrated watching Patriot teams such as the 2011 Patriots put out guys like Russ Ventrone at the secondary but relying on Brady bailing them out. These two Superbowls were won because Brady has gotten even better the last 4 years and due to teams choking. In this game, our opponents surprisingly didn't choke and that's why we lost. I know other guys stepped up and did their job like Bill preaches but they're still getting outplayed and out schemed for stretches.

History repeated itself. This game felt awfully similar to the late fourth quarter of the 2011 Giants Superbowl game. Belichick is a great coach with his attention to detail, mastery of the rule book, his ability to find hard working guys and put them in position to succeed, his teams being discipline, and his in game management. However, we've seen that only works if his roster is very talented and can make plays and or Brady being Brady. Once a coach actually has a clue and faces Bill, the Hoodie isn't always besting them with his simple gameplans. Hopefully, the Pats will learn from this and load up like how they did in 2014 following those previous seasons of the same playoff failures from the same aforementioned reasons.

Your point is well taken, and I agree partially, but I think you over-complicated the reason why we lost. We lost because Butler was on the sidelines. The fact that except for 1 Eagles drive, the Eagles were able to score ON EACH AND EVERY DRIVE, having Butler out there, would have caused AT LEAST one of those Eagles drives to go 3-and-out, which would have been enough to tip the game our way in the end. End of story, no ifs ands or buts.

I'm not saying playing Butler would have turned this into a blowout by any means, but having him on the field, would not have required to drastically change the game plan in the last minute, playing 2nd/3rd stringers in positions they are not accustomed to. Had Butler been on the field, you'd have had your 2 top corners on two 2 top receivers, and the starting safties playing their usual assignments. That in and of itself would have been enough to force a 3-and-out at least once, if nor more = Patriots win.

 

[BTTA]

Would be better if some admitted they really do not understand team building and coaching. Too many here flogging themselves, gnashing teeth and in some cases eating their own flesh after this loss. Wake up ... and get back to reality. Blaming Belichick for wounding one's self esteem is inane. Anyone who needed this victory to enhance their id needs serious help.

While true, this is dangerous territory on a sports message board. Most people use it for a safe escape place and the % of us who "need serious help" is probably a scary stat.

 

[BTTA]

Belichick was more valuable from 2001-2006 and without him Brady would of never become Brady.

I like this perspective, in part because it provides a way to see them bouncing off of each other as they co-created this nearly 20 year run of excellence.

 

[libra957]

Tom is great but Bill is the one who built the team to compete every year. I hate what he did to Butler but Bill is greater.