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Don't Ever Tell Me Belichick is More Valuable Than Brady Ever Again

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by adster124, Feb 5, 2018.

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Who Has Been More Crucial to the Pats' Success?

  1. Brady

    75.0%
  2. Belichick

    25.0%
  1. adster124

    adster124 Rookie

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    To say this game was on Belichick is an understatement. The burning of a timeout in the fourth quarter just for a 3rd and 6 when the Eagles weren't even on midfield was questionable. That's nonsense we would laugh at other coaches for doing if it they were to wish they had it back. Even if they get the first down, it's not the end of the world. Those timeouts are valuable.

    The gameplan was atrocious. The bend but don't break nonsense is getting old. It only works by relying on your opponents to commit mistakes such as penalties, errant throws, and turnovers. Aside from Zach Ertz's false start in the opening drive, Philly didn't make a major mistake afterwards. The Pats took nothing away defensively. Bill didn't get his guys ready and prepared to make tackles to force 3rd down stops. He hasn't had a great defensive gameplan in almost 15 years. By the way, that was when he had Ty Law, Teddy, Vrabel, Harrison, McGuiness, and more that he inherited from Parcells.

    Hoodie is the best of all time. Don't get me wrong. However, part of that is attributed to how he consistently relies on his opposing coaches being dumber than him. He teaches his players to not lunge for the endzone to avoid what happened with Jessie James in the Steelers game (Tomlin isn't a good enough coach to emphasize such as a thing). So many coaches mismanage timeouts (Andy Reid), get a delay of game after timeouts (Marone in the Bortles play), leave Gronk covered one on one with someone that can't do it (Tomlin), and hurriedly calls for a slant passes in the congested endzone with the game on the line (Pete Carol). The issue becomes what happens when he faces a coach that isn't going to make those type of mistakes with a talented roster? (Coughlin, the Hardbaughs, and now Pederson).

    I know Butler had an illness but if he was okay enough to play special teams, he surely could have gotten some snaps on defense. Furthermore, it surely doesn't explain why Rowe was placed on Jeffrey instead of Gilmore in the first quarter. The inexplicable decision cost the pats points early in the game. Once Gilmore went on Jeffrey, he shut the receiver down. Why wasn't he on Jeffrey from the start? Also, did Bill not watch the Vikings' game to see that stopping the slants on these RPOs would lead to deep balls? It killed the Vikings. It didn't kill the Falcons only giving up slants as the Eagles only scored 15 points. No real gameplan was installed. Don't only scapegoat Patricia. Bill is a defensive minded coach so he's there with him making these decisions and he hired him anyway. Good luck Stafford and the Lions.

    Once again, Brady played well enough to win. Bill has been relying on opponents screwing up and Brady bailing him out time after time after time (Seahawks and Falcons game). He and the front office have gotten complacent again with this roster. It is devoid of talent in the front seven compared to the teams they've face. The quality drop in the league as it pertains to smart play and the success they pulled out have made them believe everyone else is stupid. However, tonight the Eagles proved otherwise.

    You could argue Bill the general manager and the head coach has cost Brady more rings. I am not saying Brady has always been perfect. No one is. But he has played well, especially today, to win. I'm waiting for Bill to have great gameplans. He's been installing simple plans like having a tight end chip on a pass rusher like JJ Watt or double teaming a receiver like Hopkins. Some thing most teams are too stupid to replicate but instead whine about the Patriots winning.

    People talk about the system. Brady has had different offensive coordinators that he makes look good because of his ability to read defenses, make accurate throws, sense pass rush, look off linebackers and safeties, not throw to receivers he doesn't trust, lead receivers, and exploit mismatches on the field. I used to get frustrated watching Patriot teams such as the 2011 Patriots put out guys like Russ Ventrone at the secondary but relying on Brady bailing them out. These two Superbowls were won because Brady has gotten even better the last 4 years and due to teams choking. In this game, our opponents surprisingly didn't choke and that's why we lost. I know other guys stepped up and did their job like Bill preaches but they're still getting outplayed and out schemed for stretches.

    History repeated itself. This game felt awfully similar to the late fourth quarter of the 2011 Giants Superbowl game. Belichick is a great coach with his attention to detail, mastery of the rule book, his ability to find hard working guys and put them in position to succeed, his teams being discipline, and his in game management. However, we've seen that only works if his roster is very talented and can make plays and or Brady being Brady. Once a coach actually has a clue and faces Bill, the Hoodie isn't always besting them with his simple gameplans. Hopefully, the Pats will learn from this and load up like how they did in 2014 following those previous seasons of the same playoff failures from the same aforementioned reasons.
     
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  2. ScottishPatriots

    ScottishPatriots In the Starting Line-Up

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    Belichick was more valuable from 2001-2006 and without him Brady would of never become Brady.

    So it's a pointless debate.
     
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  3. adster124

    adster124 Rookie

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    Brady played in an offense depeted of top talent outside of a very good troy brown and deion branch. He didn't any stud to throw it to until Moss and Welker and we saw what happened then. Prior to that, the team was built mostly on defense. If the pats had given brady what peyton had in that same time period, then it would more obvious as to who is better. Belichick was 5-11 in 200 and 0-2 in 2001.
     
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  4. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is a real non-starter for me. They had what they had in terms of talent. It was what it was, in terms of the game. I really think there is a first-half-is-for-analysis thing going on, and this time, it didn't work. So we must survive the misfortune of only going to 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls and only winning 2 of the last 4.

    I want him always to be the grandmaster leaving behind all other coaches in every game. This time that didn't happen in the last game. I'm with you.

    I think the write-ups will probably point out that they beat us at our own game in many ways, including the patience not to go for the home run and get everything at once (offense and defense).

    Hats off to that young guy that beat us, if you measure coach vs. coach. Hats off to a talented, tough, smart Philly team that got the better of us. Hats off to another great SB, one we unfortunately lost... but definitely wasn't a game to turn off.

    BB made mistakes tonight. Point granted... and rant understood and appreciated. I think you want to pull back and look at how well and consistently what he does works (and that's despite the league* shenanigans, trying to break up the Pats off the field (confiscated draft picks, suspension games, propaganda campaigns, etc.)

    So yeah there were mistakes in there. There were "woulda looked brilliant if it worked" mistakes too. BB the GM has done pretty damn well if you ask me.

    We just got outcoached and outplayed. It's not good. You don't want it to happen. Blah blah blah about injuries, that's just straight excuse-making. But I'm thinkin I'm still okay w/BB. And of course, I'm very okay with TFB.
     
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  5. adster124

    adster124 Rookie

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    hi, I'm not said BB is bad. he's great. I'm just saying Brady is by far better.
     
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  6. Ivan

    Ivan Pro Bowl Player

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    Awesome thread


    Awesome fans
     
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  7. Ras-IR Dowling

    Ras-IR Dowling Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The 2000 squad was a team in transition, implementing new schemes on offense and defense. Definitely agree with brady making the difference in 2001, team just played a lot better when he took the reigns.
     
  8. luuked

    luuked Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    This thread is in desperate need of a third option which obviously has to be Ray Lewis killed a man.

    Also the OP is presenting a false duality here. Both are equally important for one would not be as successful without the other.
     
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  9. luuked

    luuked Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    We didnt load up in 2014 at all. We lost Talib and a chance presented itself to get Revis for a year and Browner on the cheap. This would have happened in any offseason if the chance would have been there.

    If you want to be talking about loading up then look at how aggressive the 2017 offseason was where we traded draft picks for finished players.

    There was just not enough talent on the front 7 due to a mix of circumstances. Branch checked out, Hightower got injured, McClellin never recovered, Ninkovich retired, trades didnt work out and Rivers tore his ACL. Add in the natural turnover via FA and it was a miracle that Patricia got this group even that far. It was essentially the equivalent as what happened to the OL and running game in 2015.
     
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  10. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As you know, I’m far from an over the top homer. I’m not afraid to call out some players or decisions or point out what I perceive as weaknesses from time to time, but some of these threads and takes on Belichick are beyond ridiculous. They’re embarrassing.

    If I didn’t know any better I’d think people were trying to run him out of town. Honest to God. I’m baffled.
     
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  11. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's exactly what a lot - not a few, not a handful, not some - people, particularly here, are trying to do. You used the correctly applicable adjective to describe it - embarrassing.
     
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  12. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Brady, I've always believed, made Belichick, not the other way around...
     
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  13. archstanton543

    archstanton543 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Hey, can we have a ban on people with under 100 or 200 posts starting new threads?
     
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  14. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Way to leave out the part where Belichick goes a combined 13-6 without Brady in 2008 and 2016. Not that I care about the whole "who is better debate," but don't just cherry pick numbers to prove your point.
     
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  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The mediots on Sportstalk radio will do that without our help..

    These threads are embarrassing, it is as though football is an individual sport and if something hits the crapper then one person is responsible?? This is a team sport folks..

    What I do not see or hear a lot of is how well Foles played in that game, probably as well as any qb in a SB that I have seen.. some of the passes he completed were way above my expectations of him..

    Think all newer fans need to watch the 80 games played between 89 and 93, when the Pats had 19 wins and 61 losses to realize what we have now.. Sundays of blackouts when the game was only on the radio...

    Everyone back up from the edge now..
     
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  16. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Lots of people here like it on the edge...
     
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Many of us like a well balanced approach, and are simply thankful to have seen this incredible run.. perhaps it is a different demographic.
     
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  18. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agreed, to me, there is no doubt it's different.
     
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  19. borg

    borg Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    With Hightower and Gilmore getting premium contracts last offseason, BB the GM had to economize elsewhere. By the end of the season, NE fielded the JAGgiest front 7 in recent history. Castoffs, waiver wire pickups, middle rounders, and UFAs filled many of the starting roles.....and Philly dropped 41 on them.
    No #1's drafted in the past 3 years.
    Premium talent getting shipped out
    The front 7 rebuild will begin in a couple of months. Unfortunately, NE will likely need a #2 CB as well. I don't expect a miracle upgrade in just one offseason.
    Brady will again be counted on to outscore the rest of the NFL
     
  20. EddardSnow67

    EddardSnow67 Practice Squad Player

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    Relax.
     
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