Looks like Mitchell won't be ready for Week 1

[Ring 6]

I think the biggest reason for every team's misses is the character of the player. I think the Patriots and some other teams investigate this as fully as possible but you never really know how a 22 year old wil respond once they have big checks in their bank account. Will they work their asses off, like Edelman, or will they take everything for granted and blow their career, like Manziel? And the other big factor is their toughness and approach to the game, which imo was Dobsob's biggest flaw, as he simply didn't have the toughness to compete in the field. The players who have a really strong work ethic and the toughness to really compete on every play are obviously much more likely to have productive careers , while those with a poor work ethic and are soft competitively are much more likely to fail. Figuring who will be who is a major challenge for every organization. Dobson imo lacked both the work ethic and the toughness necessary to have a successful career.

Your main point is excellent.
Your comments about Dobson are honestly things you have absolutely no way of knowing and are just making up in order to explain him.

 

[maineman209]

I agree. Those players were more ready for the NFL than Carr is. I'd prefer Lucien to Carr. However, I expect both to make the PS.

Tyms wasn't a rookie when the Pats signed him. He'd been in the league two seasons already and had appeared in a couple of games with the Browns near the end of his previous season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Your main point is excellent.
Your comments about Dobson are honestly things you have absolutely no way of knowing and are just making up in order to explain him.

I'm not making anything up I'm simply voicing my opinion. Dobson showed absolutely no improvement during his career and in fact he got worse, that's not the career trajectory of a player who is working their ass off it's the career trajectory of a player who is coasting on their athletic ability. You can disagree all you want but all of us are speculating on what we see and not in what we know as fact. If you don't like that then too bad,put me on ignore, I won't mind one bit,

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not making anything up I'm simply voicing my opinion.

But you have absolutely no data with which to judge Dobson toughness
and work ethic.

Dobson showed absolutely no improvement during his career and in fact he got worse,

He also was injured.

that's not the career trajectory of a player who is working their ass off it's the career trajectory of a player who is coasting on their athletic ability.

That is one of thousands of possible reasons, one which you have no evidence of.

You can disagree all you want but all of us are speculating on what we see and not in what we know as fact. If you don't like that then too bad,put me on ignore, I won't mind one bit,

It's not a matter of disagreeing with your wild guess it's a matter of pointing out that it exists in your mind with no evidence at all.

Don't you think its a little childish for some guy sitting at a computer with absolutely no evidence to question the toughness and work ethic of a guy who made it to the NFL and stayed there for years?

I don't know what personal issues you are dealing with but there really is no reason to come to a message board and make up crap about a player to feel better about yourself.

It's just wrong.

 

[mgteich]

using a previous point you made, how many snaps has lucien taken with brady?

Obviously none in game situations.

My point is that whoever fills the spot would be in the same situation. Lucien MAY have had work with Brady over the past two pre-season and one season, primarily during practice.

As you know, I wouldn't fill the WR spot.

 

[mgteich]

Players who are injured SOMETIMES do not come back at better than when they started.

I'm not making anything up I'm simply voicing my opinion. Dobson showed absolutely no improvement during his career and in fact he got worse, that's not the career trajectory of a player who is working their ass off it's the career trajectory of a player who is coasting on their athletic ability. You can disagree all you want but all of us are speculating on what we see and not in what we know as fact. If you don't like that then too bad,put me on ignore, I won't mind one bit,

 

[IllegalContact]

Obviously none in game situations.

My point is that whoever fills the spot would be in the same situation. Lucien MAY have had work with Brady over the past two pre-season and one season, primarily during practice.

As you know, I wouldn't fill the WR spot.

don't get me wrong......I am talking about the last spot on the unit....I like Lucien but Carr has shown more in 1 offseason than Lucien has shown in 2.....all of these guys don't see Brady unless they work their way up the depth chart

My point is that Carr has taken advantage of every opportunity he has gotten.....I believe you allow that to continue until something else appears

 

[TommyD4207]

Perhaps you are the sort who believes something from a particular game is strong evidence of future performance. I'm not generally of that mind.

Um, seeing what someone actually does on the field, does, indeed, color my expectations of them in the future, yes.

What do you do? Guess? Hope?

 

[maineman209]

I'm not making anything up I'm simply voicing my opinion. Dobson showed absolutely no improvement during his career and in fact he got worse, that's not the career trajectory of a player who is working their ass off it's the career trajectory of a player who is coasting on their athletic ability. You can disagree all you want but all of us are speculating on what we see and not in what we know as fact. If you don't like that then too bad,put me on ignore, I won't mind one bit,

Are you taking into account the possibility that all of the time Dobson lost to injury might have slowed, or even set back, his development?

 

[Tuck]

I'm confused by this.
Last year out of 962 snaps here are the WRs.

Hogan. 829
Edelman 874
Mitchell. 538
Amendola. 266
Floyd/slater. 118

Why wouldn't cooks be able to play 874? Hogan and Mitchell can clearly play their same numbers.
Amendola could surely play more.
Floyd was in for a handful at the end of the season when Dola was out. Skater played mop up.

How are we less deep than last year?

We LITERALLY replaced Edelman with cooks.

Also we probably will have FEWER WR sbaps this year because we have Gronk all season and multiple RBs who can contribute in the passing game.

Cooks can absolutely play Edelman's snap count but I'm not sure he can play the underneath stuff without getting murdered. Unless they plan on changing the offense to play more long ball someones going to have to take the underneath stuff. My point was that Edelman could do that for you all season long and get you to the playoffs. Now someone else will have prove they can do it and stay on the field all season. Not an easy assignment. You say Cooks can do it? Good luck with that. Id rather make sure he's around for the playoffs.

 

[Oswlek]

Cooks can absolutely play Edelman's snap count but I'm not sure he can play the underneath stuff without getting murdered. Unless they plan on changing the offense to play more long ball someones going to have to take the underneath stuff. My point was that Edelman could do that for you all season long and get you to the playoffs. Now someone else will have prove they can do it and stay on the field all season. Not an easy assignment. You say Cooks can do it? Good luck with that. Id rather make sure he's around for the playoffs.

Edelman is certainly a tough one, but why should I be concerned that replacing him creates an unduly amount of injury risk? And why do we need to find "someone else" to replace him, wouldn't a community effort be preferable?

 

[Tuck]

Edelman is certainly a tough one, but why should I be concerned that replacing him creates an unduly amount of injury risk? And why do we need to find "someone else" to replace him, wouldn't a community effort be preferable?

I agree with you. I was answering another post saying Cooks could simply 'replace' Edelman's snap count however it's not that simple because Edelmans routes are inherently more risky for their other pass catchers to run. Spreading the load as you say is the other option. Probably the preferable option IMHO.

 

[Simpelton]

Edelman is certainly a tough one, but why should I be concerned that replacing him creates an unduly amount of injury risk? And why do we need to find "someone else" to replace him, wouldn't a community effort be preferable?

Edelman takes a physical risks to grab extra yards that are not necessary in order to run those routes effectively. If you put another little quick guy like Cooks in the same position he might get some of those yard simply by being very quick and smart. Julian Edelman has another gear when he's in compete mode that is excellent but you can survive without it if you have to.

I would not expect him to be Edelman, Cooks seems more like a Welker to me in that role. Welker was not afraid of contact but he didn't initiate it quite like Edelman does. That's a quirk of Julian edelman's that is not necessary for the slot receiver role. For the typical Wes Welker type of slot receiver role Cooks can definitely handle that kind of assignment if it was given to him.

In fact I feel strongly that he would be better in that role then he would as a deep wideout. And I say that in the firm knowledge that he's a bloody good deep threat. If Cooks thrives like this in a role that plays against his body type, imagine what he would be like playing in a role where his body type makes him ideally Suited. This guy was born to be hit on the Run by a five-yard bullet pass with room to reach for the sidelines and Sprint for the goal line. He'd be good for a lot of first downs you can put him in a role like that

 

[BabeParilli]

Um, seeing what someone actually does on the field, does, indeed, color my expectations of them in the future, yes.

What do you do? Guess? Hope?

I tend to require a larger sample size before I pronounce them either good or bad. On the relatively rare occasion I go out on a limb because I see particular moves or techniques by a player and predict they will be a good one. I have no such notions about Mitchell. I realize it is the typical homer trait to quickly overrate players without enough evidence to do so. I'm just more objective than the average fan I guess. I certainly hope he is fantastic.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with you. I was answering another post saying Cooks could simply 'replace' Edelman's snap count however it's not that simple because Edelmans routes are inherently more risky for their other pass catchers to run. Spreading the load as you say is the other option. Probably the preferable option IMHO.

Replacing the snaps and playing the same role are not the same discussion.
The offense changes with different players. Cooks absolutely will catch passes from the slot, so will others.

 

[mosslost]

And Doug Gabriel. I still can't believe they cut him???????

Frigging Belichick, what a dumbass.

Floyd would be very useful. "Gabriel" lol Ivan

 

[varjao]

I didn't read all the posts, I'll read later, but there's something about Mitchell I wanna say so this may be the proper thread.

Many people expect a 2nd year leap, I don't. I think of course you can expect improvement in some areas, getting more used to professional football and with experience a smart player can benefit from being in the right places, avoiding certain hits, etc...but improving a whole lot in terms of technique and route running I don't expect because I think he was already NFL ready last year and gave a big contribution on the field and came up huge in the SB. So I think he can be as solid as he was last year, and of course solidify all of that continuing to making catches and TD's. I see him as a possession guy, kind of like Laffell was in 2014 but I don't think he will become a WR superstar or even #1 and that's perfectly OK, I don't think BB and even Mitchell himself expect that either.

So I hope he is all right and healthy for the season to give opposing DC's more reasons to worry.