OT - Celtics to trade #1 overall pick?

[Sfpat]

Not necessarily true

Chicago had the best player on the floor but Boston defeated them.
Washington had the two best players on the floor but Boston defeated them.
Lebron is 3-5 in NBA Finals.

Go back to the past 30 NBA champions. With few exceptions, the team that had the best player won.

 

[rochrist]

You're not winning the title with

Horford
Butler
Hayward
Thomas
and company

in the next couple of seasons, so why make such a move (Butler trade), if it costs you high end picks?

Center needed (big from 2018 draft)
Horford
Hayward/Brown/Crowder
Bradley
Thomas

Fultz or Fox
Smart
Rozier
Stashed foreign dude(s), possibly
Other bench guys to round out the roster

gives Boston an excellent chance to remain near the top of the East in 2017-2018, and then they grab their center in next year's draft. That gives them a, mostly, young and improving team as Bron Bron starts to age. That seems smarter, to me, than pissing away picks for Butler, who you're hoping is what Brown basically becomes.

Bottom line: I get Fultz, I get trading down and taking Fox, I get trading down and taking Ball, I don't get Jackson unless they think they missed on Brown, and I don't get trading picks for Butler.

Jackson and Brown don't necessarily fill the same role. There's some feeling the Brown's future lies mostly at SG, whereas Jackson is definitely a 3.

 

[rochrist]

We're talking about the #1 pick here, that pick could easily end up #5 or #6. You need a legit MVP superstar if you want to win a title, you don't mess around with these picks and pass on one of those guys.

Is Fultz a legit superstar?

 

[Bartmac36]

That's true of almost every player in NBA history, even the greats. In fact, if you can find one modern day NBA championship team that had one player and nothing else, you'll have found a unicorn. Even planet players (Bird, Jordan, etc...) need quality help to win titles.

Having said that, I agree that Fultz doesn't seem as if he's the sort of player who's clearly destined to be a planet player. Those guys only come along on rare occasions (last 2: James, Duncan, so 2 in the last 20 years).

Yeah that was my point, im not saying that truly great players can win without any help at all, even Jordan had Pippen and others. But i dont think wiggins has the capability to put a mediocre team on his back and carry them far the way a guy like lebron can, or even a harden or westbrook to a lesser extent. I see him as a guy with infinite talent that needs someone else to be the lead dog on the team, and i get a very similar vibe with Fultz

Hell the Twolves have a guy in KAT whos already arguably the best center in the game and they can barely win 30 games with both of those young studs

 

[rochrist]

Some Celtics thoughts

1. I think the Philly trade only makes sense if they get the #3 AND one of their Bigs

2. The Biggest Celts need is a big - The problem with waiting for 2018 to get one is that ALL these rookies come out so early that it takes them all 2-3 years to get even cl;ose to their potential. Brown, by current standards, had a decent rookie year, but who kn0ws how good he might eventually be.

3. Fultz might be the best pick this year, but the gap between the top 5 players really isn't that big. Also I too worry about Fultz not being able to elevate his team to being at least a winning team. For example Larry Bird elevated a team to nobodys to the finals Fultz couldn't get his team into the top 64. Finally there is no one in this draft that is going to make an immediate impact on the team's fortunes in the next 2 years.

4./ Blake Griffin SHOULD be the Celts FA target, not Gordon Heywood. With Thomas playing defense, the Celts primary need is an athletic rim protector, not another #3 scorer.

5. The NBA has gone the way of the NFL with playoff games against supposedly good team getting into the 120's is rediculous. Granted the offensive skills of current NBA players is better than ever, there IS no defense being played.

6. Ideal Hypothetical:

Dump Kelly O, Johnson, Jerevko, etc. Sign Griffin, Trade the #1 for the #3 and a Philly big. That should solidfy and immediatly upgrade your bigs and your defense. Horford would be free to be a 2 where he is more effective than at center.
That leaves you with the #3 in this years draft to get another quality 2 or 3 prospect. AND you still have a likely top 3 pick in 2018 to grab a young big.

7. I don't like the idea of trading with Philly for picks. First of all they look like they are actually starting to improve. Their picks might still get you into the lottery, but not likely to get you a top 3 pick anymore. Also, like the Browns, you can start to have joo many picks and they are wasted, especially since the development time for even good prospects is so long in the NBA now.

Griffin isn't much of a rim protector anymore. Or even that great a rebounder.

Philly bigs worth a damn are Embid and Saric. They aren't giving you either of them. That leaves Okafor who is hot garbage. If you get the Lakers 2018 unprotected pick, that stands to give you two (with Brkn 18) of the best shots at high picks in a draft next year loaded with bigs, and in particular with 3 really really good bigs.

 

[rochrist]

Danny loves the undersized guards/forwards that can't shoot.

Jaylen Brown rookie year: .454 shooting. .341 3 point shooting.

 

[Bartmac36]

To me, the NBA landscape is forever changed. Superteams arent just the present, theyre the future as well. That means that in order for the Celtics to be contenders both now and in the future, they need to adapt to the times and try to bring in as many established stars as possible to compete with the rising trend of super teams that they helped create a decade ago.

If they think they can just wait out the Warriors and Cavs and then superteams will go away, theyll be sadly mistaken. The one time they built a superteam they got instant gratification in 2008, and with all the ammo they have i say the time is now to try it again

And to everyone worried itll screw them over long term, remember after the big 3 era ended that this team had to go thru exactly one rebuilding season before immediately becoming a playoff team and eventually top eastern conference team again

 

[rochrist]

Casual fan? I've been a hard core Celts fan since 1979 pal. Don't take this debate to a sports radio level.

When it comes to orchestrating trades, Danny is the best in the league. That is defensible. His player acquisition strategy is to acquire proven NBA talent. A certain guy in Foxboro has the same philosophy.

Show me another GM who is elite at drafting. Hint: you won't find one. NBA prospects are a total and complete crap shoot.

Jalen Brown is a wait and see but overall his rookie season was decent
Rozier was ok....picked #16th.
Smart is fine for #6. Could be worse. Could be better.
Olynyk at #13 from DAL was a crap shoot. He was barely a lottery pick.
Sullinger was #21. He had some value
Avery Bradley was an excellent pick at #21
Jeff Green (ultimately) was ok here for #6
Foye was traded at #7

Go back and look at the players immediately picked before/after those players and tell me if he better or worse.

Go back and look at his trades.

Go back and look at the 2 rebuilding jobs.

He lands Horford in FA, they go to the ECF with a roster with more holes than swiss cheese and people still *****.

He lands a very, very good young head coach.

He hires Doc Rivers from the scrap heap and wins COTY.

Overall Record as GM

14 Seasons
11 Playoff Appearances
4 ECF Appearances
2 Finals Appearances
1 World Championship (should be 2 if Perk doesn't blow out his knee in G6)

The problem with your analysis is you don't have perspective. You clearly have a bias against Ainge and refuse to acknowledge his body of work. 30 other NBA owners would kill for him running their teams.

You're trying to talk reason to someone utterly irrational.

 

[Sfpat]

Bird never played at Indiana. He left long before the season started.

Thanks for the clarification but the point is that as a freshman, Bird wasn't going to play had he stayed, mainly because he had juniors and seniors in front of him. Comparing a 5th year senior Bird to a freshman Fultz is a false comparison (and yes the main problem is that these kids enter the NBA way too early. Rare is the player who can come in as a freshman and make an immediate impact).

 

[Deus Irae]

Jackson and Brown don't necessarily fill the same role. There's some feeling the Brown's future lies mostly at SG, whereas Jackson is definitely a 3.

They're both 6'7" ish wings who don't have the quicks to play the 2 against top talent, who can't shoot, and who aren't big enough to muscle in with 4s or bigger 3s. Could one of them develop beyond that, in theory? Sure. Is it likely for either or them? No, it's much more likely that they'll fit as tweener type players (Which seems to be a Brad Stevens specialty, so I'm not saying it's automatically a bad thing) who will give up in negatives a lot of what they can bring you in positives.

 

[borg]

ahahah apparently there's a possibility that a 76ers 1st round pick for 2021 is part of the deal.

Who is offering this piece of info?

 

[RobertWeathers]

You're trying to talk reason to someone utterly irrational.

I have hope.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Is Fultz a legit superstar?

Anyone who says yes is lying but he's got the tools.

With that said I love the kids game. Love his ****iness. He has a chance to be elite.

 

[Jackson 2]

Thanks for the clarification but the point is that as a freshman, Bird wasn't going to play had he stayed, mainly because he had juniors and seniors in front of him. Comparing a 5th year senior Bird to a freshman Fultz is a false comparison (and yes the main problem is that these kids enter the NBA way too early. Rare is the player who can come in as a freshman and make an immediate impact).

In college?; Hell, it happens all the time these days.

 

[zoostation]

Dafoe's favorite shirt

 

[jboston19]

Forgive me if this point has been made, but last year, Chicago leaked that the Butler deal was close to rule up the Celts fanbase to pressure DA to get the deal done while secretly demanding an insane amount. I wonder if Ainge is using this strategy on Colangelo to incite Philly following that is sick of losing but sees the light at the end of the tunnel to demand this gets done?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Yeah, exactly how I feel. I'm curious if their intentions are to trade down for a guy they'd prefer anyway and pick up more assets doing so, or if they want the picks in order to trade for a star, or both?

They are getting the assets for a big trade and splash..PG ect

 

[Joker]

"and now, here comes superstar Lebron! ...just look at superstar as he drives the lane!! he lowers his shoulder...one step...another..another..another...he lowers his left shoulder into the defender and pushes him off with his left arm to create space...another step...and LOOK AT THAT@!!! Lebron DUNKS! Unbelievable!!! Now THAT'S real basketball right there folks...this is why you pay all that money to sit a half mile away eating 5 dollar mini dogs and 8 dollar beers...WHAT A SHOW!"

 

[ausbacker]

Forgive me if this point has been made, but last year, Chicago leaked that the Butler deal was close to rule up the Celts fanbase to pressure DA to get the deal done while secretly demanding an insane amount. I wonder if Ainge is using this strategy on Colangelo to incite Philly following that is sick of losing but sees the light at the end of the tunnel to demand this gets done?

If executives run their sports administration to appease what fans want, they should immediately resign.

 

[Jackson 2]

Thanks for the clarification but the point is that as a freshman, Bird wasn't going to play had he stayed, mainly because he had juniors and seniors in front of him. Comparing a 5th year senior Bird to a freshman Fultz is a false comparison (and yes the main problem is that these kids enter the NBA way too early. Rare is the player who can come in as a freshman and make an immediate impact).

With all due respect, your original, wildly incorrect claim that Bird sat on the bench for a full freshman season at Indiana invalidates your opinion on any of this. Try commenting on professional rodeo.