2017 Minicamp Thread

[reflexblue]

Sorry court order. I am not allowed to talk to, about or get within 500 feet of women for the next 90 days. Long story

You can't restrain yourself?

 

[Ring 6]

Biscuitt may have shown some improvement from last year (we don't know that, I'm just conjecturing), but that's still not enough, he was so raw in his rookie season, that if he only shows some "improvement", that's not enough to play QB for this franchise that relies so heavily on precision and timing in the offense.

I wonder if he is not a better fit being a backup for Cam Newton or some other offense where he could use his skills better and not disrupt the offense. In this case with some positive notes from Belichick some other team could take a flyer on him for a 4th or 5th rounder. I can't see him being anything other than a backup in NE, and a Bryan Hoyer kind of backup, not Jimmy G type.

Other than skin color brisset is nothing like newton.
Why would you draft a guy in the 3rd as your future backup, be really happy with him and trade him for a 4th or 5th when next year you need him as the backup???

 

[Tony2046]

Soft

"Blah blah.... JG is our QB for the next ten years.....blah blah"

Dude can't even get through a no contact minicamp session.

 

[Tony2046]

Biscuitt may have shown some improvement from last year (we don't know that, I'm just conjecturing), but that's still not enough, he was so raw in his rookie season, that if he only shows some "improvement", that's not enough to play QB for this franchise that relies so heavily on precision and timing in the offense.

I wonder if he is not a better fit being a backup for Cam Newton or some other offense where he could use his skills better and not disrupt the offense. In this case with some positive notes from Belichick some other team could take a flyer on him for a 4th or 5th rounder. I can't see him being anything other than a backup in NE, and a Bryan Hoyer kind of backup, not Jimmy G type.

Way too early for this. I would like to see his performance during the preseason before accessing his improvement.

 

[jimnance]

Soft

You got a hell of a nerve to call ANYBODY in the NFL soft. In my experience those who are quick to label players like that are usually the biggest ****ies in the world.

Let's review exactly HOW JG got hurt in that game last year:
It was 3rd and 9,he fires a strike to Mitchell for the 1st down,KNOWING he was gonna get hammered by Alonso. And ala TB12, he did it anyway.
THAT takes balls. Something YOU apparently lack by such a bs post.
He MAY be brittle. He most certainly is NOT soft.

 

[long distance]

I don't look at Bolden as competing for a RB spot; he is almost exclusively a special teamer, just like Ebner, Slater and King.
Something to consider when constructing a 53-man roster: who will replace these potential cuts on special teams? There is already a 323 snap void with Mingo's departure.

2016 Special Teams Stats
Snaps -- % -- Player
359 -- 80% -- Nate Ebner
323 -- 72% -- Barkevious Mingo
307 -- 69% -- Jonathan Jones
299 -- 67% -- Brandon King
264 -- 59% -- Brandon Bolden
250 -- 56% -- Geneo Grissom
226 -- 50% -- Matt Slater
218 -- 49% -- Shea McClellin
201 -- 45% -- Patrick Chung

great list, jmt57
__

@ Bolden

1. I don't think Bolden was kept on the team almost exclusively as a special teamer last couple of years. He was kept as a clear LGB's backup + core STer. He took over from Blount in 2015 when LGB went down in Dec.

2. When Bolden was injured in week 4, Elandon Roberts replaced him on ST next week and ST had a great game; and when Roberts took over #3LB duties after Freeny's injury in week 5 Grissom (replacing Freeny on 53) moved to ST.

3. Bolden was signed relatively late in FA for lowest deal w only $50.000 signing bonus. In previous contract Pats gave Bolden $300.000 signing bonus. Then did not extend him last or this year (like they did with Slater and Ebner).

4. Pats lost LGB and signed Burkhead and Gillislee for biggest money at RB position in years.

All this indicates to me that Bolden needs an injury at RB position to have a chance for the roster spot. They love him dearly, he is dependable (amazingly quick return after what looked like a fatal injury vs BUF) but the contract context speaks how they see him this year. Note that he is a perfect candidate for a shadow roster during the season since it is not very likely that he will be signing for another team.


@ST

Bolden can probably be easily replaced by Burkhead on ST. He practiced with ST units during OTAs and minicamp and since there will be a 3-4 RB committee that should not be too difficult or too risky. If Chung, Harmon, McClellin (and partly D-Mac) could do it last year I see no reason why B-Rex would not in 2017.

Mingo is actually a real ST loss but also for him there are good options: Roberts, Rivers, also Bates or Langi if they make the team.

Plenty of other new options for different ST positions: O'Shaughnessy that I see as a clear #3 TE front-runner, most of udfa DB's are prime STers (and I guess at least one of them will make the team) etc.

So I guess exclusive ST value might not be enough this year apart from Slater and Ebner (that I actually see as potentially serious hybrid SS/LB backup) and the specialists..

 

[mgteich]

Have you mentally cut Grissom, then?

IMO there will be plenty of quality competition for the ST snaps. In addition to vets like Bolden, Grissom, Burkhead, O'Shaughnessy, King, Ebner, J. Jones and Slater, the UDFA class is stacked with ST potential. Any of Langi, D. Jones, Thompson and the Hollisters could easily be in the mix if they show well in camp.

Yes, I guess that I am mentally cutting Grissom, having added Rivers, Wise, Ealy and Guy. I'm fine with keeping a DL special teamer, but would hope for a DT. Of course, that is in addition to our LB special teamer (Mingo last year, and perhaps Freeny this year).

 

[mgteich]

great list, jmt57
__

most of udfa DB's are prime STers (and I guess at least one of them will make the team) etc.

I strongly disagree. We already have Ebner, King and J Jones as DB's who are special teamers. All are experienced in our system; only 1 year for Jones.

Who would you cut to keep your favorite DB STer?

 

[mgteich]

So I guess exclusive ST value will not be enough this year apart from Slater and Ebner (that I actually see as a serious hybrid SS/LB backup) and the specialists..

Yup, we should have only one STO player: Slater. We here this every year, certainly every year since Belichick has been here. And every year, we have about 6 players who we wouldn't want to see out there playing a position, except under extreme emergency.

 

[long distance]

I strongly disagree. We already have Ebner, King and J Jones as DB's who are special teamers. All are experienced in our system; only 1 year for Jones.

Who would you cut to keep your favorite DB STer?

Richards and King will face some serious competition.
Its a long way to Sept so many things can happen on DB/LB front.

 

[Ring 6]

Yup, we should have only one STO player: Slater. We here this every year, certainly every year since Belichick has been here. And every year, we have about 6 players who we wouldn't want to see out there playing a position, except under extreme emergency.

Which is the Grissom argument

 

[supafly]

Richards and King will face some serious competition.
Its a long way to Sept so many things can happen on DB/LB front.

I tend to agree with you that someone who went undrafted will almost certainly make the team, and those responsibilities almost always start with ST play.

 

[Angelpats]

He MAY be brittle. He most certainly is NOT soft.

Ok, he's not soft but is brittle instead. Whatever he is you have to be durable to amount to anything in this league.

 

[supafly]

Ok, he's not soft but is brittle instead. Whatever he is you have to be durable to amount to anything in this league.

Agreed, and while anyone calling for Brady to step aside while he's still playing at a high level is crazy, let's not go overboard on the Garoppolo is soft talk. At least not yet. It's a mini camp practice in June. He may/may not have been able to play in a real game, or he may have toughed it out just to be on the field today.

We've had the same exact arguments about guys like Edelman and Amendola being soft/made of glass (with a much larger sample size of extensive injuries), and they've been huge in many key moments which contributed to two more SB runs. Sometimes, injuries just happen.

 

[luuked]

Agreed, and while anyone calling for Brady to step aside while he's still playing at a high level is crazy, let's not go overboard on the Garoppolo is soft talk. At least not yet. It's a mini camp practice in June. He may/may not have been able to play in a real game, or he may have toughed it out just to be on the field today.

We've had the same exact arguments about guys like Edelman and Amendola being soft/made of glass (with a much larger sample size of extensive injuries), and they've been huge in many key moments which contributed to two more SB runs. Sometimes, injuries just happen.

He got absolutely level'd by Kiko Alonzo and fell in a way where most other QBs would also suffer an AC joint injury. Him being soft for not playing with a damn AC joint injury was maybe the most moronic hot take of the season. If you wanna critizise something then it was him holding on to the ball far too long and inviting hits. Something Brady is infinitely better at and is another reason for Tom's longevity.

But I guess there are certain clueless segments among fans who rather see the limping Flaccos or Big Bens than their backups even though the latter will give the team a bigger chance of winning. It is not "being tough" to play through injury if it affects your level of play.. its highly egoistic and plain stupid.

Finally, for all we know JG could have easily continued despite the calf strain but the coaches held him out to a) not aggravate anything unnecessarily and b) have a great reason to give Jacoby more reps without anyone in the media/JG camp getting wild about it.

 

[long distance]

 

[long distance]

Defensive linemen Trey Flowers, Malcom Brown, Vincent Valentine, Darius Kilgo, Woodrow Hamilton, Deatrich Wise Jr., Derek Rivers, and Adam Butler “all stayed late after practice” for the sake of “working on pass rush moves,” per Cox.

Here a story on Flowers & Rivers putting in extra time:
Top Patriots draft pick Derek Rivers happy to learn from Trey Flowers

“His technique, he’s one of the best,” said Rivers “I just watch him on film and he’s awesome. An awesome dude, nice guy, definitely somebody I can go to and ask questions. I watch everything, how he defends the run, just how precise his hands are, how accurate they are in the pass rush, how he gets his hips around -- every little thing that helps you get to the QB or make plays.”

 

[The Brandon Five]

Defensive linemen Trey Flowers, Malcom Brown, Vincent Valentine, Darius Kilgo, Woodrow Hamilton, Deatrich Wise Jr., Derek Rivers, and Adam Butler “all stayed late after practice” for the sake of “working on pass rush moves,” per Cox.

Here a story on Flowers & Rivers putting in extra time:
Top Patriots draft pick Derek Rivers happy to learn from Trey Flowers

“His technique, he’s one of the best,” said Rivers “I just watch him on film and he’s awesome. An awesome dude, nice guy, definitely somebody I can go to and ask questions. I watch everything, how he defends the run, just how precise his hands are, how accurate they are in the pass rush, how he gets his hips around -- every little thing that helps you get to the QB or make plays.”

This team gonna be good.

 

[long distance]

Remaining bits and pieces from final open OTA
more at: Blogservations: Garoppolo sits it out

-- Brady invested some time after practice working with tight ends Dwayne Allen and James O’Shaughnessy.

-- Jacoby Brissett followed Brady during a late hurry-up drill and suffered through some predictable ups and downs. He had some problems with his accuracy throughout the morning but also was victimized by some bad drops by receivers, most notably a pair from DeAndrew White. Drops aside, Brissett didn’t always appear comfortable in the pocket and at times his throws seemed to get away from him.

-- The second offensive line consisted of, from left to right, LaAdrian Waddle, Jamil Douglas, Ted Karras, Chase Farris and Cameron Fleming.

-- Assistant special teams coach Ray “Bubba” Ventrone was the first member of the team/coaching staff on the field. Ventrone, who looks like he could still play, ran several sprints across the practice field wearing long sleeves in the sweltering mid-90s temperatures.

-- Spring camps are not designed for players like Elandon Roberts. The second-year linebacker is a physical player who has demonstrated his desire to run through people rather than around them. During mini-camp he got under White’s skin with a harder-than-it-needed-to-be bump, and on Tuesday he seemed to draw the ire of the offense once again with his penchant got contact.

-- Most of the special teams work the media has been privy to thus far has been centered on the punting game. On Tuesday that changed to the kickoff team. While the drill seemed to focus on coverage, it did offer a look at the returners. During the first round the returners included White, Will Likely, Andrew Hawkins and David Jones. Later during the second set of reps James White, Dion Lewis, DeAndrew White, Cyrus Jones and Danny Amendola took reps. Jones dropped his first attempt and drew the ire of running backs coach Ivan Fears.

-- The players once again closed with some sprints up the conditioning hill.

 

[varjao]

Why would you draft a guy in the 3rd as your future backup, be really happy with him and trade him for a 4th or 5th when next year you need him as the backup???

I'm not sure they are really happy with him, I mean he seems to be a very nice guy but can he get a first down on a 3rd and 10?

Draft stock is sunk cost now. The situation at backup for the next few years seems undefined.