Do Patriot fans have less loyalty to Tom Brady than Browns fans did to Bernie Kosar

[pazrul72]

There are many. Just read the board.

You keep saying this like your word is law. I do read the board and I don't see any never mind many. What I do see is inteligent people considering the possibility that in 2018, 2019, 2020 Grop might be the better player. Yes right now for 2017 Brady is clearly the better QB who gives the pats the best chance of winning a championship. Most I think would even agree he has a 90% chance of that being true in 2018. How much do you give up going forward though? There will come a day where that percentage is closer to zero and it COULD be 2018. Your constant dismissal of anyone with a different opinion is getting really tiresome and it bothers me when quality posters simply refuse to see any side but their own.

 

[sb1]

So the question is, would it be better to keep Brady for another 2 great years and trade JG only to find out he becomes a top QB for the next 10-12 years?

Tough decision

Keep Brady for another 2 years. Another JG won't be hard to find...maybe as soon as next year's draft. Or maybe JB makes major progress. People are forgetting about him.

If Brady starts yapping about being paid- and I can't imagine why he would- THEN I expect BB to quickly move on.

 

[doesntmatter1]

This Jimmy debate would be so much easier if Brady would take a seat during blowouts, but NOOOOO Brady just keeps on chucking it lol.

I've stated before I am loyal to the team first. Also Jimmy has looked good EVERY time he has gotten a chance to play even without the luxury of having Edelman etc as an option. We don't know if Jimmy can be durable or play in bad weather but everything else has been more than you can ask. In all honesty Jimmy looks better than Brady did at this early point in his career and I don't think it is too crazy to project him becoming even better. Brady wasn't some scoring machine from 01-03. I can see BB recreating those seasons with Jimmy. An elite defense and a fearless quarterback that doesn't turn the ball over.

In an ideal world Jimmy would accept a team friendly extension and bide his time but that isn't going to happen when guys like Glennon and Osweiler can make like 15 million a year.

Lastly, no one should bash a pat fan that is willing to look past the GOAT. We have literally been conditioned to deal with this. Stars like Milloy, Seymour, Collins etc are here one day gone the next. Gronk is without a doubt the best tight end, but would anyone be 100% shocked if we traded him today. I will panic only when BB hangs it up.

 

[Ring 6]

You keep saying this like your word is law. I do read the board and I don't see any never mind many. What I do see is inteligent people considering the possibility that in 2018, 2019, 2020 Grop might be the better player. Yes right now for 2017 Brady is clearly the better QB who gives the pats the best chance of winning a championship. Most I think would even agree he has a 90% chance of that being true in 2018. How much do you give up going forward though? There will come a day where that percentage is closer to zero and it COULD be 2018. Your constant dismissal of anyone with a different opinion is getting really tiresome and it bothers me when quality posters simply refuse to see any side but their own.

You only have to go through this thread to see comments such as better a year early than a year late (think about that because a year early could have been after 2015) or too bad for Brady I root for the laundry etc.

As I said they are all over, but you do not have to believe me or look and see that is your choice.

What the ultimate decision will be (which will be based on more than we can see today) is entirely different than showing a lack of appreciation and respect for Brady while discussing it.

 

[BlacknGold77]

franchise success over an individual player...everytime, no exceptions.

far better to miss out on a couple years of good Brady than to lose out on 10 years of continued success by losing his replacement.

see, Green Bay Favre to Rodgers, 49ers Montana to Young.

to keep the wagon rolling, you need to move on from players while they still have value, something Bill has done every time here.

otherwise you end up like the Celtics of the early 90s. Hold on to the Big 3 until they have no value for sentiment sake and set the franchise back 10+ years as you have to completely bottom out to rebuild

 

[Nunchucks]

No itbis you saying how you prefer decision to be made.
I have no doubt belichick will ride Brady until he either doesn't want to play any more or there is no question he is done.

When Belichick cuts Brady, you are gonna have a hard time with it. Unless of course Brady chooses to retire....but are you going to whine about him retiring while still playing at a level to win a superbowl? Why not just 1 more year?

 

[patsfan13]

I absolutely trust that BB will make the correct decision for the good of the franchise. He may know if Brady is planning to retire in the next year or two, IF that was Brady's thinking we won't know about it.

Brady is a human being who has a family and a life outside of football. He could decide it is time to re-prioritize HIS life. That is the part not many seem to be considering.

That could be the explanation for how JG and JB are being handled. I am wondering why JG wasn't traded. I don't buy the "nobody offered much for him" theory, I don't buy the BB will just kick Brady to the curb for the hell of it thought, this guy is the GOAT and BB of all people knows it. He will wring all he can from the GOAT.

HE also has a very good idea of what JG is and will be as a franchise QB.

Why you say after all he has only played 5.5 qtrs that mattered. He has seen this guy on the practice field and in the Film Room for 3+ years now he knows how he see the field and reads D's. When he said that JG could run the entire O that Brady runs that spoke volumes to me, he never said that about Mallet Cassell ect.

So we have a fascinating situation here. and will see how it plays out. Fortunatly BB doesn't care about the opinions of fans.

BB will do the RIGHT thing.

 

[sb1]

franchise success over an individual player...everytime, no exceptions.

far better to miss out on a couple years of good Brady than to lose out on 10 years of continued success by losing his replacement.

see, Green Bay Favre to Rodgers, 49ers Montana to Young.

to keep the wagon rolling, you need to move on from players while they still have value, something Bill has done every time here.

otherwise you end up like the Celtics of the early 90s. Hold on to the Big 3 until they have no value for sentiment sake and set the franchise back 10+ years as you have to completely bottom out to rebuild

I agree that the thinking must be team first and that Bill does not keep guys for nostalgia.

But I'm not sure why people keep making the Young and Rodgers analogy. Those two guys are and will be in the HOF. The likelihood that JG will ever deserve to be mentioned even in the same conversation as them, or any HOFer for that matter...is very, very small.

 

[Deus Irae]

franchise success over an individual player...everytime, no exceptions.

far better to miss out on a couple years of good Brady than to lose out on 10 years of continued success by losing his replacement.

see, Green Bay Favre to Rodgers, 49ers Montana to Young.

to keep the wagon rolling, you need to move on from players while they still have value, something Bill has done every time here.

otherwise you end up like the Celtics of the early 90s. Hold on to the Big 3 until they have no value for sentiment sake and set the franchise back 10+ years as you have to completely bottom out to rebuild

Rodgers has one Super Bowl victory, and is a sub-.500 playoff QB without that one year's run. Favre took a different team to within a couple of plays of a Super Bowl, and was clearly still capable of bringing another SB to the Packers had he not moved on.

Young also won one Super Bowl. Montana took a different team to the AFCCG, despite his having become a shell of himself.

So, you're looking at two HOF QBs transitioning to two HOF QBs, and even there you're not looking at something glorious to behold. And, to repeat, that's with a transition to HOF QBs. Unless you can see into the future and know that JAG is HOF bound, there's not even an applicability.

As for the Celtics argument, well, it's just nonsense.

 

[ivanvamp]

For what it's worth, saying you'd rather cut a player a year too early rather than a year too late isn't necessarily demonstrating a lack of appreciation for that player. There are any number of reasons why you might prefer to cut a player "a year early" rather than "a year late" and yet still have a tremendous amount of appreciation for the player you're cutting.

Saying you "root for the laundry" isn't necessarily showing a lack of appreciation for any particular player, because I bet every one of us here would root for the Patriots under JG against a Tom Brady-led opponent, even though we love Brady.

 

[patsfan13]

I agree that the thinking must be team first and that Bill does not keep guys for nostalgia.

But I'm not sure why people keep making the Young and Rodgers analogy. Those two guys are and will be in the HOF. The likelihood that JG will ever deserve to be mentioned even in the same conversation as them, or any HOFer for that matter...is very, very low.

Did we get BB opinion on this?

Rogers when he took over from Favre had the same accomplishments as JG maybe less, Young was largely a failure in the USFL and with Tampa Bay. Neither projected as a HoF Qb when they became starters.

BB knows far more about JG's potential than you or I.

 

[BlacknGold77]

I agree that the thinking must be team first and that Bill does not keep guys for nostalgia.

But I'm not sure why people keep making the Young and Rodgers analogy. Those two guys are and will be in the HOF. The likelihood that JG will ever deserve to be mentioned even in the same conversation as them, or any HOFer for that matter...is very, very small.

its mentioned because when San Fran moved on from Montana, Steve Young wasnt Steve Young. It's not like they knew they had a HOF'er sitting there to step up

He was nothing more than an unproven, unknown quantity with 1 small sample (3 games starting) where he showed a flash.

 

[pazrul72]

You only have to go through this thread to see comments such as better a year early than a year late (think about that because a year early could have been after 2015) or too bad for Brady I root for the laundry etc.

As I said they are all over, but you do not have to believe me or look and see that is your choice.

What the ultimate decision will be (which will be based on more than we can see today) is entirely different than showing a lack of appreciation and respect for Brady while discussing it.

Yes they quote Bellichick you know the man making the decision. You keep misusing that quote letting Brady go after 2017 would IMO be a year early as I think he will still be elite in 2018. Still is Bill thinks it's in the best interest of the team to have 8-12 years of Grop instead of one year of Brady I get that line of thinking. All I am saying is it's not stupid or idiotic or the people discussing that option are not complete and utter morons. We have new data, in Grop not being traded, Giselles comments, and schefter's report that suggest that option is being considered.

 

[BlacknGold77]

Rodgers has one Super Bowl victory, and is a sub-.500 playoff QB without that one year's run. Favre took a different team to within a couple of plays of a Super Bowl, and was clearly still capable of bringing another SB to the Packers had he not moved on.

Young also won one Super Bowl. Montana took a different team to the AFCCG, despite his having become a shell of himself.

So, you're looking at two HOF QBs transitioning to two HOF QBs, and even there you're not looking at something glorious to behold. And, to repeat, that's with a transition to HOF QBs. Unless you can see into the future and know that JAG is HOF bound, there's not even an applicability.

As for the Celtics argument, well, it's just nonsense.

yeah, thats the point. Both teams MOVED ON from HOF QBs to go with young unproven QBs that they thought would be great as well.

and the Celtics argument is exactly what happened, its not nonsense. Hell, even those in the front office have said as much after the fact.

 

[sb1]

I absolutely trust that BB will make the correct decision for the good of the franchise. He may know if Brady is planning to retire in the next year or two, IF that was Brady's thinking we won't know about it.

Brady is a human being who has a family and a life outside of football. He could decide it is time to re-prioritize HIS life. That is the part not many seem to be considering.

That could be the explanation for how JG and JB are being handled. I am wondering why JG wasn't traded. I don't buy the "nobody offered much for him" theory, I don't buy the BB will just kick Brady to the curb for the hell of it thought, this guy is the GOAT and BB of all people knows it. He will wring all he can from the GOAT.

If BB really turned down a high first round pick for JG then that is an astoundingly stupid decision that will bite this franchise for years to come. BB is smarter than that. I believe there will be plenty of JG's to be found in next year's draft.

Why you say after all he has only played 5.5 qtrs that mattered. He has seen this guy on the practice field and in the Film Room for 3+ years now he knows how he see the field and reads D's.

That isn't that relevant to any team that wanted to trade for him. The 5.5 quarters are however, very relevant. JG did a really nice job but at no time played at a level that tells you he is a lock for a future all star. Hence, no team offering the Pats anything that trumps the need to have a good insurance policy for Brady next season.

When he said that JG could run the entire O that Brady runs that spoke volumes to me, he never said that about Mallet Cassell ect.

He also said Tebow was a very talented guy. I wouldn't put any stock into what he says to the media and the reasons should be obvious.

 

[BlacknGold77]

If BB really turned down a high first round pick for JG then that is an astoundingly stupid decision that will bite this franchise for years to come. BB is smarter than that. I believe there will be plenty of JG's to be found in next year's draft.



That isn't that relevant to any team that wanted to trade for him. The 5.5 quarters are however, very relevant. JG did a really nice job but at no time played at a level that tells you he is a lock for a future all star. Hence, no team offering the Pats anything that trumps the need to have a good insurance policy for Brady next season.




He also said Tebow was a very talented guy. I wouldn't put any stock into what he says to the media and the reasons should be obvious.

yeah, there's just this huge pool of good QBs sitting around waiting for jobs, right? That's why only 10-14 teams have one, right?

newsflash, good starting QBs dont grow on trees. The process of finding one is long and painful and not one I ever want this team to have to go through. We have been unbelievably spoiled by 25 years now of Bledsoe and Brady

 

[sb1]

its mentioned because when San Fran moved on from Montana, Steve Young wasnt Steve Young. It's not like they knew they had a HOF'er sitting there to step up

He was nothing more than an unproven, unknown quantity with 1 small sample (3 games starting) where he showed a flash.

The GOAT was a 6th round draft pick. That on its own wouldn't really be a good basis for another team to pick a QB in the 6th round and expect or hope he becomes great. It's the same logic.

JG may be very good. But don't count on JG ever becoming anything close to Young, Rodgers, etc. The likelihood is so tiny it's not worth thinking about.

 

[ivanvamp]

its mentioned because when San Fran moved on from Montana, Steve Young wasnt Steve Young. It's not like they knew they had a HOF'er sitting there to step up

He was nothing more than an unproven, unknown quantity with 1 small sample (3 games starting) where he showed a flash.

This isn't actually true. Montana was let go after the 1992 season (he played in 1993 in KC). He missed all of 1991 and all but one game of 1992 with injuries. During that time, Young played in 11 games in 1991 and 16 games in 1992, and here were his numbers:

1991: 64.5%, 2,517 yds, 17 td, 8 int, 101.8 rating
1992: 66.7%, 3,465 yds, 25 td, 7 int, 107.0 rating

In 1992, Young led the NFL in the following categories: comp %, TD passes, TD%, INT%, yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, passer rating, net yards per attempt, adjusted net yards per attempt, and pro-football-reference's AV (approximate value). In other words, in 1992, Young was one of the very best players in football. Montana was coming off 2 massively injury-plagued seasons and was 36 years old. Young was 31, in his prime, and was already established as the best QB in the game at the time.

Not really anything like the TB/JG situation.

 

[sb1]

yeah, there's just this huge pool of good QBs sitting around waiting for jobs, right? That's why only 10-14 teams have one, right?

Not sure I see the relevance.

newsflash, good starting QBs dont grow on trees. The process of finding one is long and painful and not one I ever want this team to have to go through. We have been unbelievably spoiled by 25 years now of Bledsoe and Brady

It can be but doesn't have to be. Next year's draft class is strong. Plus of course the Pats have JB, and they like him too even if he is very raw.

I think JG's contributions to date and potential at this point is extremely overrated by a lot of Pats fans and they're only setting themselves up for disappointment if he falls short of their expectations.

 

[BlacknGold77]

This isn't actually true. Montana was let go after the 1992 season (he played in 1993 in KC). He missed all of 1991 and all but one game of 1992 with injuries. During that time, Young played in 11 games in 1991 and 16 games in 1992, and here were his numbers:

1991: 64.5%, 2,517 yds, 17 td, 8 int, 101.8 rating
1992: 66.7%, 3,465 yds, 25 td, 7 int, 107.0 rating

In 1992, Young led the NFL in the following categories: comp %, TD passes, TD%, INT%, yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, passer rating, net yards per attempt, adjusted net yards per attempt, and pro-football-reference's AV (approximate value). In other words, in 1992, Young was one of the very best players in football. Montana was coming off 2 massively injury-plagued seasons and was 36 years old. Young was 31, in his prime, and was already established as the best QB in the game at the time.

Not really anything like the TB/JG situation.

uh, yeah...it still is.

SF made the transition in 1991. 91 and 92 are Young's 1st 2 seasons with the reigns.

The transition may have been drawn out, but it was still replacing the GOAT with an unknown