Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[Fixit]

You do realize that attacking the person you are trying to disagree with is the best way of admitting you know your argument sucks right?

Actually, no, it's not. I've seen people with airtight, slam-dunk arguments get personal with someone merely because they deserved it, not because they lacked faith in the argument.

 

[Fixit]

Per multiple sites:

I'm going to need more evidence before I form an opinion.

Also, Julian Edelman sucks.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually, no, it's not. I've seen people with airtight, slam-dunk arguments get personal with someone merely because they deserved it, not because they lacked faith in the argument.

I disagree. There is no 'deserving' taking it to a level of personal insults.
I can say your point is stupid. I cannot say you are stupid. There is an enormous difference.

 

[shmessy]

Not until it is revealed, no.
We know that the story was all over the news yesterday, and do not know what pressure they were getting.
We also know that they suspended him shortly after he released a text from Martin. It would certainly be possible that they told him to not address the media, and he did. There are many possiblities.

100% factually incorrect.

Incognito released the "text" on Friday. Nothing was done to him for over 48 hours - - until Sunday, merely an hour after the Dolphins viewed the first pieces of evidence.

Your timeline is off. Maybe you should actually READ about this case.

 

[Fixit]

I disagree. There is no 'deserving' taking it to a level of personal insults.

On which planet?

But feel free to address my point that "getting personal" = "faulty argument" is wrong.

 

[Brady'sArmy]

Per multiple sites:

damn being from Stanford and all, Martin probably didn't know how to even react to something like this. This is not normal hazing, this is straight up harrassment.

 

[Gronkandez]

this thread has more drama than the Dolphin locker room

seriously, can the bickering be moved to another forum?

 

[shmessy]

Shakedown:

Miami Dolphins suspend Richie Incognito indefinitely in connection to Jonathan Martin incident - ESPN

"Sources told ESPN that one of the significant allegations being reviewed is that Incognito got Martin to contribute $15,000 to help finance a trip to Las Vegas by some teammates last summer, even though Martin preferred not to travel with the group.

Rather than go, Martin simply gave Incognito the $15,000, sources told ESPN, fearing the consequences if he did not hand over the money.......Incognito, who has been a part of the Dolphins' six-player leadership council, started all eight games for the Dolphins (4-4)...."

 

[Fixit]

seriously, can the bickering be moved to another forum?

I don't believe that other forums exist. No evidence.

 

[Deus Irae]

You do realize that the voicemail in question is from April, right?

 

[Ring 6]

On which planet?

But feel free to address my point that "getting personal" = "faulty argument" is wrong.

Because there is no reason for an intelligent person to resort to personal insults in response to a disagreement other than not having a way to counter the argument and sinking to that level as a result.

 

[Fencer]

Could be a damning text. Could be typical teammate bull. Without context around it, it doesn't really mean much. It's a voicemail from April, for crying out loud.

I hope the level of threat isn't typical.

And while rules for N-word use seem to differ a LOT from one subculture to another, I'm guess what's quoted there wasn't OK.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It is very different. Low salaried rookies in the NFL need to hold onto every dollar they earn. Most of them won't make it past their second year in the league, and are then off to teach/coach high school, sell insurance, or some other low salaried position. Remember, most of them didn't get quality college degrees because the football factory schools are allowed to create artificial college experiences for them. The $100,000 or so they can bank (after taxes, agent fees, and dinners for millionaires) is their grubstake in life. A $5,000 bar tab should be a big deal for them.

One thing I have to applaud the NFLPA for is limiting agent fees. The CBA states that an agent gets no more than 3% of a player's NFL contract.

 

[hwc]

Interesting situation. Brushci has essentially confirmed that this sort of hazing, to one degree or another, is a league-wide problem. If the league doesn't want to turn this into a league-wide PR nightmare, they've got to demonize Incognito and the Miami locker room as a horrible anomoly. Sucks to be Incognito. Goodell is going to drop a ton of bricks on his head.

:bricks:

I hope that the NFL uses this opportunity to stop the hazing, league-wide. The problem with saying this hazing is OK, but that hazing is too much is that hazing always escalates. Smart coaches, like Belichick, are going to quietly put an end to it on their own.

 

[Fencer]

You do realize that the voicemail in question is from April, right?

I didn't, but that still speaks to the "donation" vs. "extortion" question for any subsequent "request" for money.

 

[Fencer]

Anyhow, the hit to Mr. Incognito's pocketbook seems richly deserved.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I could understand hazing within reason for a long time but i have reached the point where what i have heard about so often goes way over the line and ends up closer to criminal than it is to "hazing." I'm thinking in particular of the player who had is career ended after they made him run a gauntlet where teammates had socks filled with batteries they were clubbing them with, and now this, which isn't hazing but is really extortion. Players can lose their careers and paydays at any moment and the idea that this is acceptable is ridiculous, $15,000 is absurd and no player should ever be shaken down for anything like this. they need to end hazing in sports, unfortunately too many of the athletes are too immature to understand reasonable boundaries that would allow it to continue.

 

[Kontradiction]

Interesting situation. Brushci has essentially confirmed that this sort of hazing, to one degree or another, is a league-wide problem. If the league doesn't want to turn this into a league-wide PR nightmare, they've got to demonize Incognito and the Miami locker room as a horrible anomoly. Sucks to be Incognito. Goodell is going to drop a ton of bricks on his head.

:bricks:

I hope that the NFL uses this opportunity to stop the hazing, league-wide. The problem with saying this hazing is OK, but that hazing is too much is that hazing always escalates. Smart coaches, like Belichick, are going to quietly put an end to it on their own.

Hazing is fine when it's done right. As has been mentioned, it helps build comradery in a weird "hey, we had to do it too", sort of way. The issue is when hazing goes too far, such as $30,000 dinners and handing over $15,000 of your money so other guys can go to Vegas for free.

 

[Deus Irae]

I hope the level of threat isn't typical.

And while rules for N-word use seem to differ a LOT from one subculture to another, I'm guess what's quoted there wasn't OK.

You're assuming it was an actual threat. It might have been. It might not have been. That's why we need context.

 

[Deus Irae]

I didn't, but that still speaks to the "donation" vs. "extortion" question for any subsequent "request" for money.

No, it doesn't. Or, rather, it doesn't necessarily do that.